Are you enjoying the endgame?

[SamR]

You're clearly an American...aren't you? :P

It was as a friend of mine said earlier: "The problem is with gamer's and people in America today is that they have this HORRIBLE Warcraft mentality of constantly UPGRADING and maxing crap out and to compete with their neighbors instead of just having FUN with them... just like buying Cellphones every year... they want the next stat upgrade. That's a problem... what happened to having FUN with what you HAVE!?"

Why would you single out Americans? Have you seen the crazy shit the Asians and Euros do in MMOs? I still remember in WoW vanilla when all the top raiding guilds(American at the time) were shocked that Nihilum was flasking their entire raid for AQ40 attempts. Even the DPS!! Hardly anyone went through the trouble to flask anyone besides the tanks at the time. The time and expense of burning 40+ flasks a night was too much for US guilds. The Euros were just more hardcore and came to dominate the top of the raiding scene.

In the Madness first kill interview, KIN Raiders talked about all the crazy number of normal DS runs they did with alts to funnel gear to their main raiders. Asian raiding guilds being hardcore is not really a new thing, either.

As for cellphones, the vast majority of Americans don't upgrade every year. We're tied to 2 year contracts. Some crazy techies with too much money might be paying early termination multiple times a year, but that's really rare. People in countries without contracts are much more likely to upgrade their phones multiple times a year. Hell, I had friends living in Asia who owned multiple high end phones at the same time and just swapped the sim cards around, treating the phones as basically fashion accessories.

So yeah, your America-bashing is just off base here.

[Ashnazg]

Exept that you are on an website thats only looked at by people who play video games. Your specimen isnt representative as alot of people who play the game dont chat on forums. And they are the majority.

I was responding to a very specific statement that the poll needs twice as many people to be representative, and it doesn't. Either its not representative at all because of sample bias, or it already has more than it needs to be representative.

Besides, your statement doesn't actually mean anything, since that's what it means for a sample to be representative - it is a small subsection of a whole population. First it has to be established that people who play the game at large are substantially different from people who post on the forums.

[Bovinity Divinity]

Competition is fun. It's in our nature... maybe not in yours but who are you to judge anyone else. There is nothing wrong in competition and i say the best games are competitive games.

If you want competition, then compete against other players. The idea that Gear = Competition is just silly.

It just doesn't seem as though a portion of the audience brought to the genre of MMOs circa 2005 had a particularly keen interest in this genre of gaming specifically.

I do have to agree with this. It feels like a ton of people came into the MMO market, looked around at the "open world" or "world that doesn't revolve around you" concept and such, then decided they HATED the entire thing. Now it's all lobbies and mini-games and OMG you're the hero of the world! and crap.

Around 2005 was the golden age of MMO's though. WoW just beginning, the grind fest that was FFXI, and EQ on its tail end. I played all three and literally didn't see the sunlight for a week in college. I think its more the people that joined WoW/MMO scene after Vanilla WoW/EQ/ grindy JPMMORPG.. say 08/09/10 that really changed it.

EQ really wasn't as grindy as people made it out to be. Some aspects of it were a little too time-consuming if you got unlucky, and the total lack of solo content for some classes was frustrating at times. Naturally the technical limitations of the era limited the content presentation as well.

It's the only MMO I've played since where it really felt like a genuine world. It didn't feel like it was designed for my personal gratification, in fact it was cruel and unforgiving at times. Every little victory often felt worthwhile because success wasn't part of the design. Certain areas of the world simply weren't for you to go to because, hey, the people don't like you at all. With no instanced content, interaction meant a lot more, too...especially on a PVP server where I played, so the concept of holding certain zones, camps or spawns was important.

Yeah, some of that is rose-colored goggles, I know. But the game really did embody a lot of what I thought an MMO should be.

[Fenlnir]

Not a chance, I would have said the 2 guilds I were in were majority ex wow players, ex rift players or ex Tor players, I dont remember a single person being a non mmo player I dont get what fencers is talking about in regards to GW2 attracting non mmo players or where the evidence is. If it exists im happy to be put in my place.

Whether or not these people are being honest, I've seen quite a few new to mmo players, mostly after I hit 80 on one toon and decided to roll an alt. Now I know a ton of people are probably trying to troll, but I've seem some genuinely new to mmo players.

OT: Depends on whether or not I'm with people I know. The random people in the really large events doesn't really appeal to me as much as I wanted it to. Dungeons feel pretty nice for a bit of fun. I don't know if it will hold the mass appeal for a long time given that all the current stuff is stat allocation and cosmetic.

[Galaddriel]

Not a chance, I would have said the 2 guilds I were in were majority ex wow players, ex rift players or ex Tor players, I dont remember a single person being a non mmo player I dont get what fencers is talking about in regards to GW2 attracting non mmo players or where the evidence is. If it exists im happy to be put in my place.

Our experiences are different. In both my guilds there are very few WoW players or ex-WoW players. First one is a large guild with just a handful and my 2nd guild is one that came over from Lineage 2 that never played WoW.

I will say the WoW players are the noisiest on the forums with their complaints. Maybe you guys just have to stop and think, without raids maybe this game was not targeted to you. It's not WoW2, it's not a WoW clone.

Those of us that didn't approach the game with a WoWcentric PoV are happily playing the game and having a blast

[draykorinee]

Yeah I know its not targeted towards me but not because it doesnt offer raids, I never even hit 80. It still doesnt change the fact that the majority of players who play GW2 will be MMO players, I dont buy in to the story that this has brought in a whole new type of player to mmos, I dont know if it will be quantifiable or not, would be interesting to see, but I just dont know why this game would draw people in when others havent.

[Bovinity Divinity]

Not really sure why people keep bringing up raiding. "Raiding" is a concept that really isn't concrete at all to begin with, and I don't think that anyone really believes that an MMO has to revolve around just that.

What it IS about is having a PvE system that's well-designed, challenging and ideally progressive in some way. That concept has become synonymous with "raiding" just because there really hasn't been any good offerings that didn't involve raiding, but I don't think it HAS to be in the form that WoW had.

[Shadylol]

Our experiences are different. In both my guilds there are very few WoW players or ex-WoW players. First one is a large guild with just a handful and my 2nd guild is one that came over from Lineage 2 that never played WoW.

I will say the WoW players are the noisiest on the forums with their complaints. Maybe you guys just have to stop and think, without raids maybe this game was not targeted to you. It's not WoW2, it's not a WoW clone.

Those of us that didn't approach the game with a WoWcentric PoV are happily playing the game and having a blast

I didn't approach the game with a "WoWcentric Pov", and I'm still bored at level 80

[Bovinity Divinity]

I didn't approach the game with a "WoWcentric Pov", and I'm still bored at level 80

The problem with the term "WoW Centric PoV" is that people are now mistaking the expectation of PvE content as being a WoW-Related concept.

[Shadylol]

The problem with the term "WoW Centric PoV" is that people are now mistaking the expectation of PvE content as being a WoW-Related concept.

Yeah, I think you're right

It seems like you just can't win, too. If you say that WoW did something right, these same people just go into a backwards loop of crediting everything Blizzard has done to copying Everquest, but if you say a new MMO should have something, they just assume it's an idea unique to WoW

For a group of people that apparently don't care much for WoW, they seem to constantly think about it

[Floppi14]

Even calling this Endgame is rediculous.

What endgame?

They need to add some more in the future me thinks :/

[Shadylol]

Even calling this Endgame is rediculous.

What endgame?

They need to add some more in the future me thinks :/

I agree

People who played the first Guild Wars keep telling me that NCSoft/Arenanet released quality content at a good rate in that game, so hopefully they'll do the same with GW2, but I'm just not so sure that it's going to be content worth doing

[maldias]

The problem with the term "WoW Centric PoV" is that people are now mistaking the expectation of PvE content as being a WoW-Related concept.

no, they expected the PvE content to be good and diverse, problem is its not.

the issue with the bosses have so few skills that rather then having to pay attention and react to them throughout the fight you just end up standing there letting auto-attack do its job.

[Decklan]

I'm beginning to get the feeling that with the official forums up and running in full swing now, a lot of the truly content players have vacated these forums, and a lot of the ones left are those at best on the fence, and at worst 3-week-mmo-transients who hang around on other-game sub forums on a primarily World of Warcraft fan site who like to bash other games based on what they've done wrong compared to WoW's all-knowing Godhood.

In other words, the "ERMAGERD, GW2 dusern't have raiding, no endgame!" crowd.

[Zdrasti]

Even calling this Endgame is rediculous.

What endgame?

They need to add some more in the future me thinks :/

The whole concept of "end game" I think is ridiculous honestly. Ask yourself, does LoL have end game? Does that question even make sense? No it's absurd.

End game implies that everything you were doing before was not the real game but just some unnecessary evil needed to overcome before you could play the "real game." I think that's a poor design concept. There shouldn't be anything called end game, but rather a fun experience the whole way through.

As for GW2, I've been 80 a while now and still enjoying it immensely. I imagine it will be another month or two before I finish playing through all content just once on one character. At that point I can start thinking about redoing some stuff or playing a new character. But for now, there's simply far too much to do.

I don't really understand why people are chain running the same thing over and over again. Do they just play 16 hours a day every day? Do they just need to latch onto one repetitive activity? I can understand the appeal of mindlessly killing easy mobs over and over for a while (I did enjoy diablo 2 quite a bit afterall), but in this kind of game grinding just seems wholly out of place.

[Bovinity Divinity]

no, they expected the PvE content to be good and diverse, problem is its not.

the issue with the bosses have so few skills that rather then having to pay attention and react to them throughout the fight you just end up standing there letting auto-attack do its job.

That's my point. The content is lacking, but as soon as you bring it up, people around here start in on you about, "Oh, that's WOW stuff! Yuck!"

In other words, the "ERMAGERD, GW2 dusern't have raiding, no endgame!" crowd.

Like this guy, for instance. Can't wrap his head around a solid endgame that isn't a WoW-clone, so he assumes that any feedback on the concept must translate to, "ZOMG MAKE GW2 INTO WOW LOLOL"

[SirRobin]

I'm beginning to get the feeling that with the official forums up and running in full swing now, a lot of the truly content players have vacated these forums, and a lot of the ones left are those at best on the fence, and at worst 3-week-mmo-transients who hang around on other-game sub forums on a primarily World of Warcraft fan site who like to bash other games based on what they've done wrong compared to WoW's all-knowing Godhood.

In other words, the "ERMAGERD, GW2 dusern't have raiding, no endgame!" crowd.

Meh... Its a forum for a site focused on a different game. So we should expect opinions that do not cast GW2 in a flattering mold. I'm actually surprised by how little hostility there is here but mostly chalk that up to good moderators.

[maldias]

I can understand the appeal of mindlessly killing easy mobs over and over for a while (I did enjoy diablo 2 quite a bit afterall), but in this kind of game grinding just seems wholly out of place.

then explain to me this, why are they rewarding it?
killing the same kind of mob multiple times gives more and more EXP.
repeating the same dungeon over and over again is the only way to get the gear based on that dungeon.

[Shadylol]

I'm beginning to get the feeling that with the official forums up and running in full swing now, a lot of the truly content players have vacated these forums, and a lot of the ones left are those at best on the fence, and at worst 3-week-mmo-transients who hang around on other-game sub forums on a primarily World of Warcraft fan site who like to bash other games based on what they've done wrong compared to WoW's all-knowing Godhood.

In other words, the "ERMAGERD, GW2 dusern't have raiding, no endgame!" crowd.

I still have fun with WoW, but I don't play retail anymore, and I don't intend to give Blizzard any money for their Panda thing, so I don't appreciate you spreading the idea that anyone who's dissatisfied with Guild Wars 2 is just a WoW/Blizzard fanboy

---------- Post added 2012-09-18 at 05:50 PM ----------

then explain to me this, why are they rewarding it?
killing the same kind of mob multiple times gives more and more EXP.
repeating the same dungeon over and over again is the only way to get the gear based on that dungeon.

Well, it's an NC Soft game, that's just how they are. Grinding is a big thing in Asian games. Sure, Arenanet is based in the US, but they're still owned by NC Soft, and we still got a grinding game

[Stellan]

I'm beginning to get the feeling that with the official forums up and running in full swing now, a lot of the truly content players have vacated these forums, and a lot of the ones left are those at best on the fence, and at worst 3-week-mmo-transients who hang around on other-game sub forums on a primarily World of Warcraft fan site who like to bash other games based on what they've done wrong compared to WoW's all-knowing Godhood.

In other words, the "ERMAGERD, GW2 dusern't have raiding, no endgame!" crowd.

I assume you haven't been reading the GW 2 official forums then. There's plenty of upset players over there too.