View Poll Results: Are you enjoying the "Endgame"?

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  • Yes

    474 47.12%
  • No

    532 52.88%
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  1. #581
    Dreadlord Iryne's Avatar
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    Yazeed, I do not waste any more of my time about replying to you. Btw, your English is fine when you are replying to "Thread: Should I get Guild Wars 2 or Mists of Pandaria?".

    ---------- Post added 2012-09-24 at 05:10 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    I think the biggest misconception that people have when they talk about "traditional MMO Endgame" is the idea that it's about the gear grind. It certainly gets repeated around here enough. I wish I could get people to believe that it really isn't, it's about the content.

    Hell, I started Tier 11 Heroic raiding in mostly blues and ended it still wearing mostly normal mode gear, one blue item, and a level 80 craftable alchemy trinket. Still managed to rank on WoL for most fights, including a US top 40 Heroic Al'akir 25 kill. (Loved and hated that fight. =D )

    Most raiders you talk to will tell you that when it comes to raiding, it's about the content. You'll hear, "Get gear to raid, not raid to get gear" a lot.

    I don't care whether or not GW2 has a gear grind. I don't know how many times it'll take before this sinks in and people stop attributing that position to me (and other "raiders"). All I care about is the content, I want to be challenged.
    You are right, I said gear grind when I really meant: Skinner box is not equal to accomplishment (for me... anymore).

    I actually wrote about this when we were still pondering what GW2 will bring and what will be different in it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Iryne View Post
    This is actually really interesting topic:
    Skinner box, interval reinforcement
    A psychologist Burrhus Frederic Skinner decided to put a mouse inside of a box. This box contained a lever which the mouse could press to open a closed compartment, revealing food. The mouse would then be conditioned to expect food after pressing the lever. This is known in Skinnerian psychology as continuous reinforcement.

    Skinner decided to start rewarding the mouse's efforts only part of the time (this is known as interval reinforcement). He found that the mouse would keep pressing the lever until it got food, no matter how long it took. Skinner staggered the interval distances more and more, but the mouse pressed on.

    Gaming
    Video games in the old days tended to be short and fun experiences to pass the time. Since games were inherently fun, people would beat them and restart them countless times, just for the heck of it. Unfortunately, online games started becoming more popular. Some online games are little more than clones of established classics such as Tetris and Space Invaders, there are some others that exist in a persistent virtual world (MMO Games or more casual ones like Farmville).

    The inclusion of a persistent world forced video game developers to find a way to keep their community playing the game as long as possible between content updates. So, the video game companies started doing psychology research. They realized that all they had to do to get people to play their games for life (or at least a very long time) was bait them, much like how Skinner baited the mouse into mindlessly pressing that lever.

    Why Make An Addictive Game?
    The reason is quite simple. In the course of their research video game companies realized that, no matter how fun you make a game, once the fun is over gamers will stop playing and go on to another game. In most genres, this doesn't matter as that person has already purchased a copy of the game and there are no upkeep costs or added benefits for the company in question. For online games, there are additional considerations of bandwidth and constant content updates to keep the virtual world fresh and vibrant for the player community. Thus, it's in these companies' best interests to get people to pay for their game on a continued basis.

    How to Create Addictive Games
    All video games created to be addictive share several traits:
    A reward system that slows down over time. The most common system is the level system, where it takes more and more experience points to get new levels. Zynga's Farmville has crops that take longer and longer to harvest.
    An end goal that is eventually replaced with another end goal, ad infinitum. The creation of new dungeons in World of Warcraft defines this trait.
    A reason to be addictive. I haven't seen an intentionally addictive game that wasn't made that way to make money. Monetization is the name of the game here.
    Repetitive gameplay to the point that it's not fun anymore. The companies are banking on the game being so addicting that you won't care.

    The worst part is that these companies don't have any passion for video game development. All they are looking at is the bottom line and how much more money they can milk out of a game or a franchise. While video games have always been a business, at least before there was passion involved.

    Also watch this: http://www.penny-arcade.com/patv/epi...he-skinner-box

    I hope that ArenaNet can keep their mind and don't start to be greedy. Note NCSoft the funding company that ofc wants money out of it's investment. Shortly:
    - ArenaNet is a video game developer (currently creating GW2)
    - NCsoft is a developer and publisher of online computer games (funding GW2)

    I haven't played enough GW2 to say will I get addicted to collect everything or can I just play for fun.
    Sorry for off-topic.
    Last edited by Iryne; 2012-09-24 at 02:19 PM. Reason: typos D:

  2. #582
    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    Entire video is about PVP. He'd just as well be talking about any run-of-the-mill action game.

    Could have just said, "GW2 is more twitch based than stat driven MMOs."
    This is pretty much what i got from that too, problem is that the pvp feels "flat" to me and just repetative and with pvp i mean the actual combat, since there is no real goal to work towards on the whole. The actual fights are far from satisfying as they are so slow and in some fights it feels to me like i might as well watch TV while im trying to bash dowa generic defensive geared and specced character#2153 to make a flag change colour.

  3. #583
    Keyboard Turner
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    From my time spent in GW1 I am alright with the way things are going. I also am an alt-a-holic so I have plenty to work on and keep me busy (almost done with second 80)

  4. #584
    I am Murloc! SirRobin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trist of PTX View Post
    From my time spent in GW1 I am alright with the way things are going. I also am an alt-a-holic so I have plenty to work on and keep me busy (almost done with second 80)
    Wow, I've got almost 180 hours in and rerolled about all my toons looking for just the right "look." Need to reroll my ranger to a female still. I've got a long way to go before cap.

  5. #585
    Online games are like drugs...those who make the most addictive one hits the jackpot. Blizz is the only one that mastered it so far. Some try to do the same, but for example ToR has performance problems, but all other mmos have one big defect: thier interface is not as reponsible as in wow. While I find WoW outdated and won't play it anymore, I still find it's fight mechanic to be easier and more convenient than in GW2.

    If ANET will focus too much on the fun factor and get rid of addictive factors, then population will decrease in time until expansion comes.
    When u step aside and look at wow etc, u will see that it is really pointless to waste tons of hours to get gear, stats, etc. Because its a damn virtual reallity, computer program made by others, who just put this and this and ppl mindlessly follow them thinking that it's fun. But GW2 doesn't have such traps, it has just fun. Well, mmo's were always about rewards. Even MOBA games are rewarding players with new champions/higher rank/more points to spend on smth etc. U play online game because of the reward and competition system. At least 90% of u.
    Last edited by Slaughty8; 2012-09-25 at 11:11 AM.

  6. #586
    If ANET will focus too much on the fun factor and get rid of addictive factors, then population will decrease in time until expansion comes.
    When u step aside and look at wow etc, u will see that it is really pointless to waste tons of hours to get gear, stats, etc. Because its a damn virtual reallity, computer program made by others, who just put this and this and ppl mindlessly follow them thinking that it's fun. But GW2 doesn't have such traps, it has just fun. Well, mmo's were always about rewards. Even MOBA games are rewarding players with new champions/higher rank/more points to spend on smth etc. U play online game because of the reward and competition system. At least 90% of u.
    It's almost like people are afraid of the idea that people play "other MMO's" and actually have fun. Believe it or not, people do indeed have fun in MMO's and other online games, and they don't run around all panicked and sweaty, shouting, "OMG I NEED LOOT! SOMEONE, QUICK! JUST A LITTLE HIT, PLEEEEEASE!!"

  7. #587
    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    It's almost like people are afraid of the idea that people play "other MMO's" and actually have fun. Believe it or not, people do indeed have fun in MMO's and other online games, and they don't run around all panicked and sweaty, shouting, "OMG I NEED LOOT! SOMEONE, QUICK! JUST A LITTLE HIT, PLEEEEEASE!!"
    I have only focused on the main aspects, where I wrote that they all run around panicking "OMG LOOT, FAST, GEAR!"?
    Blizz and not only them, has an departament that is gathering all the data they have, all trends + some psychologic guys and they all sit down and decide what will be the best to keep ppl busy, what baits they need, what is appealing, etc. Nowdays MMO's are serious business, not a "lets make this game, its fun, ppl will love it". Nowdays there are investors who only care about money, income, they don't care that some ppl will just die because they played too much. As long as their feats will inspire others to play (like Paragon and other guilds inspire some to raid etc) they are happy.
    And u have community managers who talk with u on the forum and PR + marketing + CM and they all made a special code "how, what, when" we tell to the players about changes, games, everything.
    Last edited by Slaughty8; 2012-09-25 at 03:54 PM.

  8. #588
    Scarab Lord Granyala's Avatar
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    Wow, I've got almost 180 hours in and rerolled about all my toons looking for just the right "look."
    Heh. That's why I'm usually an eternity on my character creation screen. So I don't make mistakes. If I do, well that's still my character and it gets incorporated into the RP as a trait she doesn't like about herself.

    My little Mya is now completely exotic. Age: 117hrs in 28 days.
    4hrs a day.. heh writing ones thesis gives a little free time I guess.

    PS: l just realized you have more playtime than me \o/
    Last edited by Granyala; 2012-09-25 at 04:06 PM.

    Ifalna Sha'yoko on Twitter and Armory - Occasionally unfaithful to WoW with my Wizard- (ノಠ益ಠ)ノ彡┻━ ┻

  9. #589
    Quote Originally Posted by Slaughty8 View Post
    And u have community managers who talk with u on the forum and PR + marketing + CM and they all made a special code "how, what, when" we tell to the players about changes, games, everything.
    Isn't that a good thing? I don't really like WoW anymore, and I'm pretty annoyed with Blizzard, in terms of what they've done to WoW, but I will always give them credit for being good at communicating with the playerbase

    Other MMOs I've played only had developer interaction for a few weeks, then they would only really communicate with the players when big updates were coming
    Rest In Peace, World of Warcraft. Subscriber count doesn't matter, WoW has been dead in spirit for a while
    Rest In Peace, Star Wars the Old Republic. SWTOR is a fun RPG, but a bad MMO

  10. #590
    If you aren't playing GW2 for fun then you aren't going to enjoy it. It's about the story, the environment, and the sense of completion and achievement. It's not about keeping you going for years on end, it isn't a sub-based game. I said early on that it plays more like a single-player game in that once you complete what YOU want to do, you are pretty much done. There isn't a ton of large-scale group content that you have to repeat over and over to get the full benefit of the game. That really is all there is to it. Just play it because you enjoy it. If you don't enjoy it, play something else. Have fun!

  11. #591
    Titan DrakeWurrum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Artorias View Post
    If you aren't playing GW2 for fun then you aren't going to enjoy it. It's about the story, the environment, and the sense of completion and achievement. It's not about keeping you going for years on end
    Glad somebody gets it!
    I hope you haven't forgotten my role in this little story. I'm the leading man. You know what they say about the leading man? He never dies.

    If you give into your impulses in this world, the price is that it changes your personality in the real world. The player and character are one and the same.

  12. #592
    I'm kinda torn on it. On one side I feel that the PvP is very well done and have (mostly) a lot of fun doing that. On the other side dungeons feel very badly thought out and are just getting more and more frustrating to me lately.

  13. #593
    Mechagnome Silenteyes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kakokun View Post
    I'm kinda torn on it. On one side I feel that the PvP is very well done and have (mostly) a lot of fun doing that. On the other side dungeons feel very badly thought out and are just getting more and more frustrating to me lately.
    100% agree with you, the dungeons are some of the worst i've played and it's a shame to day how much i enjoyed levelling, i enjoyed completing the map, i enjoy pvp but i cannot stand the state of the dungeons at the minute.

  14. #594
    I have two types of mates playing this game, the ones who like to play the game without any teammates and prefer to do things by themselves and others that like jumping on Vent and working as a group. The later group are having a blast, joking around helping with storymodes, WvW, questing... this game is far more social than other MMO's because it still rewards you for helping others no matter what level they are.

    I feel sorry for those that aren't playing with a group because the enjoyment of the game is 10x better.

    I'm saying this in the 'endgame' thread because we are all level 80 and still doing all those things I mentioned. We've also only done 1 dungeon so far and will wait until they have fixed the rewards/tokens and boss fight mechanics before we enter. PLenty to keep us busy til they do.

  15. #595
    In my opinion, not at all, i'm really bored atm

  16. #596
    Scarab Lord Granyala's Avatar
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    I feel sorry for those that aren't playing with a group because the enjoyment of the game is 10x better.
    Honestly, I think that's true for any MMO out there. Whether AION, WoW, GW2 or TERA I always found them relatively boring when playing on my own.

    Ifalna Sha'yoko on Twitter and Armory - Occasionally unfaithful to WoW with my Wizard- (ノಠ益ಠ)ノ彡┻━ ┻

  17. #597
    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    Honestly, I think that's true for any MMO out there. Whether AION, WoW, GW2 or TERA I always found them relatively boring when playing on my own.
    Hell it's true for any game as long as everyone is enjoying it.

  18. #598
    Yes I am, I'm enjoying it alot, I love the fact I can log in at any time and not feel forced to complete something (dailies) either I level a new toon or I'm finishing another zone for my 80 toon and possibly run the dungeon in said zone as I basically missed them while leveling up and I actually like them quite alot I say actually since many seem not to here, I can't say I find them to be all that hard either even though I have just done random pugs although admittedly I'm only playing story modes now, I would say they are a little uneven though most of the dungeons have you moving alot forcing you to pay constant attention wich I like then all of a sudden it's like they put in a boss that barely moves so you can have a breather, perhaps it's intentional and perhaps it's actually a good thing to do it that way but I think if a boss can be downed without having to move a single time something needs to be added to his mechanics.
    When in doubt, mumble...

  19. #599
    Scarab Lord Granyala's Avatar
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    Hell it's true for any game as long as everyone is enjoying it.
    Yeah I remember my UT/2003/4 LANs most intense gaming moments of my life. So much fun

    Ifalna Sha'yoko on Twitter and Armory - Occasionally unfaithful to WoW with my Wizard- (ノಠ益ಠ)ノ彡┻━ ┻

  20. #600
    Quote Originally Posted by Silenteyes View Post
    100% agree with you, the dungeons are some of the worst i've played and it's a shame to day how much i enjoyed levelling, i enjoyed completing the map, i enjoy pvp but i cannot stand the state of the dungeons at the minute.
    I totally agree with this and feel the same way

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