View Poll Results: Are you enjoying the "Endgame"?

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  • Yes

    474 47.12%
  • No

    532 52.88%
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  1. #641
    Just log in and do stuff, because the outcome - your success - is completely a given
    To be fair, this is kinda what the series is built on. I would go so far as to say that it is one of the main draws of the franchise. Just play and everything comes to you eventually.

    Even in GW1 the "grinds" were not mandatory and progressively became more trivial as the game(s) rolled out new campaigns.

    In GW1 it was mostly like this for us:
    "Hey, anyone want to join for a hard mode mission?"
    "Maybe later I'm doing a little casual PVP in FA"
    "I'll join. Still need my ZQ for today."
    "Anyone else?"
    "Nah. Farming a bit so I can make this cool armor"

    Its sorta how the series has always been. Just play whatever, whenever, however and with whomever you please. None of us were more powerful than the other for working on the beer drinking achievement, playing polymock, doing some halls or running a mission we probably ran a hundred times over. Urgoz? We did that like all the time. There was no real reward for it- just got money [trivial] and the fun/challenge/interest of it all.

    Now I don't think GW2 is nearly as cerebral or in-depth as the first games. But the sequel is at least consistent in what players enjoyed of the first ones. The goals of the game(s) are definitively casual focused. None of the GW games are "intense", for lack of a better term.

  2. #642
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrakeWurrum View Post
    For me, those moments where half the raid is dead and the boss is on his last legs and might still day are the most exciting. That's when all the skilled players start pulling out all the stops and really shine.
    To this day one of the most "chaotic" flat out awesome moments I've ever been a part of was during Ulduuar 25 man progression. We miss-pulled and every healer save one died at 65-70%. Instead of calling a wipe someone yelled push it... The healer put in a godly performance and everyone else played perfectly; hit every cool down, got every interrupt, avoided all the fires... It was the overcoming a clear screw-up and the efforts of that one healer that made it so entertaining.

    Honestly, its always been the overcoming the mistakes that made it fun for me.

  3. #643
    The Lightbringer Karizee's Avatar
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    I'm enjoying end game immensely.

    Hit 80 a little over a week ago, still only 59% map exploration, so many zones I haven't even been in yet, so many jump puzzles left to complete, so many dungeons yet to conquer, and I've finally broken into Orr.

    About 2 am myself and about 10 others along with a very handy thief got as far as Lyssa. We didn't have enough people to take down the Priestess and had to make a strategic retreat. I'm floored by the otherworldly art style. Tyria is a wondrous place.

    1205 achievement points so far, my achievement list is still mostly empty bars. Have 2 crafts leveled to 400, 6 more I haven't started on. I've only dabbled in WvW and haven't touched arena yet.

    Still playing with builds and weapon sets, so many choices and ways to play an elementalist - it's the most fun I've ever had with a character in any game.

    Very happy customer here
    Morpheus: Do you believe that my being stronger or faster has anything to do with my muscles in this place? Do you think that's air you're breathing now?

  4. #644
    Its sorta how the series has always been. Just play whatever, whenever, however and with whomever you please. None of us were more powerful than the other for working on the beer drinking achievement, playing polymock, doing some halls or running a mission we probably ran a hundred times over. Urgoz? We did that like all the time. There was no real reward for it- just got money [trivial] and the fun/challenge/interest of it all.

    Now I don't think GW2 is nearly as cerebral or in-depth as the first games. But the sequel is at least consistent in what players enjoyed of the first ones. The goals of the game(s) are definitively casual focused. None of the GW games are "intense", for lack of a better term.
    I don't need a reward or gear or to be stronger than the next guy...(and I know I'm wasting my time saying that, because someone will come along and post about loot or Skinner Box)...I just don't want to play the equvalent of Farmville with swords, where as long as I log in, close my eyes and hit the buttons, things will just come to me. There's absolutely nothing I've done in GW2 that I can point at and say, "Phew, that was a challenge. I'm glad I did that." and that's a bit of a letdown.

    Is it my fault for not knowing that GW2 was the MMO equivalent of Farmville? I dunno, maybe. I don't really think so, though, because I look at everything the game was presented as and currently is, and I like the ideas. The concepts of the gameplay are all very interesting and appealing, I just think it's the lack of challenges that I'm disappointed with.

    It's an entire rant all its own, discussing why MMO's all feel like horrible excuses for games right now. I guess they just want to be as simple and all-inclusive as possible rather than challenging players.

  5. #645
    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    I don't need a reward or gear or to be stronger than the next guy...(and I know I'm wasting my time saying that, because someone will come along and post about loot or Skinner Box)...
    Well, using the term "stronger" might be misleading. I guess, "None of us were better off than the other" might be more accurate?

    The Guild Wars series is simply designed this way. The goals are sorta centered on you- be it a nice armor skin or achievement in your HOM. It's just lite/fun/fluffy stuff and nothing more.

    You make a point of "challenge". That's fair and I would agree it's not an especially hard or difficult MMO. The challenging parts are [in my opinion] challenging in a manner that makes no real sense. Such as how one can clear some expo modes with barely a death/auto attacking away. Yet a story mode trash pull can insta wipe a party in but a few seconds.

    Is it my fault for not knowing that GW2 was the MMO equivalent of Farmville? I dunno, maybe. I don't really think so, though, because I look at everything the game was presented as and currently is, and I like the ideas.
    It kinda is your fault though. Not to be rude or anything. The series is casual focused as I said before. All the games made in this franchise are of this stripe.

    We'll just have to see how things are balanced in the long term w/r/t difficulty. Though the concept of game difficulty is one that is mostly personal.

    It's an entire rant all its own, discussing why MMO's all feel like horrible excuses for games right now. I guess they just want to be as simple and all-inclusive as possible rather than challenging players.
    I know what you mean. Kinda of rant-y here but I feel like MMOs that I truly enjoy are not really made anymore. Even the few MMOs recently which were games I enjoyed have made concessions in gameplay I do not want/enjoy for purposes of broad appeal.

    Somewhat jokingly I said in the Vanguard thread I expect to one day retire to an EQ1 timelock server and live out my remaining MMO days somewhere between Old Guk and Kael Drakkel. /oldlady
    Last edited by Fencers; 2012-10-01 at 08:07 PM.

  6. #646
    It kinda is your fault though. Not to be rude or anything. The series is casual focused as I said before. All the games made in this franchise are of this stripe.

    We'll just have to see how things are balanced in the long term w/r/t difficulty. Though the concept of game difficulty is one that is mostly personal.
    I suppose that's somewhat fair. No one really sat down and said, "Look, GW was a pretty trivial game overall, so expect the same out of GW2." but I guess I could have dug that up.

    EQ1 timelock server and live out my remaining MMO somewhere between Old Guk and Kael Drakkel.
    Ah, yes...my old friend Guk /leSigh

  7. #647
    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    I suppose that's somewhat fair. No one really sat down and said, "Look, GW was a pretty trivial game overall, so expect the same out of GW2." but I guess I could have dug that up.
    I dunno. Maybe they are "trivial" games. Maybe not in some regards.

    It's a tough nut to crack. Mostly because I admit to being fairly biased here. I really enjoy the first Guild Wars games. Though it's difficult to explain why.

    The first games weren't super duper hard, though they could be challenging at times. There wasn't a lot of progression outside of personal satisfaction [ahh, finally crafted my blahblah armor]. Some aspects of the game were faultily designed, lacking in execution or design savvy- in fact, a lot of it felt archaic even circa GWEN. Now, almost prehistoric. Blah blah.

    Despite this I think there can be real joy in a game despite flaws or lack of rigour. If I may use Torchlight 2 as an example of a game I am currently playing. Now I realize TL2 and GW2 are very different games. Stay with me here for a moment.

    TL2 is easy as pie. I ran through the hardest difficulty on Hardcore mode with ease. Nothing to it for an ARPG veteran. Heck, I didn't even know half the game's mechanics when I did it and I am still unsure of many aspects of gameplay. Like I literally have no fucking clue how health regen works.

    In many ways, Path of Exile is a deeper, more thoughtful game. Far more demanding as well. I scarcely got a hardcore character to level 50 in almost 8 months or play. I need to be cautious at all times, measure my steps, play the market, farm, plan my build, etc. Every progress step I take feels monumental because the road there was so tough.

    I sorta have more fun with TL2 though. The game was just a joy to play for the fun of it. There isn't really any progression left for me in TL2 either. Just farm random maps till I die one day and /sob. It's been... a week or two since release?

    For me, this is how I view and treat Guild Wars 2. I have fun in the game simply because some things are fun to do. I don't push it- sometimes I am out there for 2 hours jumping around on rocks/killing stuff/trying a dungeon. Some days I just log in for half an hour and fight level 20 trolls or drakes... for fun.

    The Guild Wars series hinges on a player finding these things fun at a basic level in and of themselves. It truly is pick-up & play/drop anytime gameplay. There isn't much to be done for the player who simply isn't having fun/joy in fighting a little mini boss in Metrica or Timberline Falls... just because.

    I would say that is the crux of the franchise. Why did we run that dungeon, jump atop these rocks or farm that area? "Just because."
    Last edited by Fencers; 2012-10-01 at 08:41 PM.

  8. #648
    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    I dunno. Maybe they are "trivial" games. Maybe not in some regards.

    It's a tough nut to crack. Mostly because I admit to being fairly biased here. I really enjoy the first Guild Wars games. Though it's difficult to explain why.

    The first games weren't super duper hard, though they could be challenging at times. There wasn't a lot of progression outside of personal satisfaction [ahh, finally crafted my blahblah armor]. Some aspects of the game were faultily designed, lacking in execution or design savvy- in fact, a lot of it felt archaic even circa GWEN. Now, almost prehistoric. Blah blah.

    Despite this I think there can be real joy in a game despite flaws or lack of rigour. If I may use Torchlight 2 as an example of a game I am currently playing. Now I realize TL2 and GW2 are very different games. Stay with me here for a moment.

    TL2 is easy as pie. I ran through the hardest difficulty on Hardcore mode with ease. Nothing to it for an ARPG veteran. Heck, I didn't even know half the game's mechanics when I did it and I am still unsure of many aspects of gameplay. Like I literally have no fucking clue how health regen works.

    In many ways, Path of Exile is a deeper, more thoughtful game. Far more demanding as well. I scarcely got a hardcore character to level 50 in almost 8 months or play. I need to be cautious at all times, measure my steps, play the market, farm, plan my build, etc. Every progress step I take feels monumental because the road there was so tough.

    I sorta have more fun with TL2 though. The game was just a joy to play for the fun of it. There isn't really any progression left for me in TL2 either. Just farm random maps till I die one day and /sob. It's been... a week or two since release?

    For me, this is how I view and treat Guild Wars 2. I have fun in the game simply because some things are fun to do. I don't push it- sometimes I am out there for 2 hours jumping around on rocks/killing stuff/trying a dungeon. Some days I just log in for half an hour and fight level 20 trolls or drakes... for fun.

    The Guild Wars series hinges on a player finding these things fun at a basic level in and of themselves. It truly is pick-up & play/drop anytime gameplay. There isn't much to be done for the player who simply isn't having fun/joy in fighting a little mini boss in Metrica or Timberline Falls... just because.

    I would say that is the crux of the franchise. Why did we run that dungeon, jump atop these rocks or farm that area? "Just because."
    Exactly. There are very few required goals in GW2 (or GW1). Obviously using required in the sense of, needed in order to progress/be competitive. The games are designed around maximizing fun factor, not maxing rewards. If you get bored, take a break, come back a few months later - you'll be able to pick up where you left off, without worrying about what others have done in the time you've been gone. Sure, the meta probably shifted, and if patches/expansions have been released people may be focusing on newer content - but I've never seen a region (in GW1) totally abandoned, and I doubt I will in GW2.

    GW2 puts the onus on you. Set your own goals (though they give you plenty of options), have fun doing what you want to do, when you want to do it, with whom you want to do it with. Just don't expect the game to hold your hand and tell you/push you to do something.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryngo Blackratchet View Post
    Yeah, Rhandric is right, as usual.

  9. #649
    GW2 puts the onus on you. Set your own goals (though they give you plenty of options), have fun doing what you want to do, when you want to do it, with whom you want to do it with. Just don't expect the game to hold your hand and tell you/push you to do something.
    The point wasn't for the game to hold my hand, I'm not really sure where you got that impression at all.

    For me, this is how I view and treat Guild Wars 2. I have fun in the game simply because some things are fun to do. I don't push it- sometimes I am out there for 2 hours jumping around on rocks/killing stuff/trying a dungeon. Some days I just log in for half an hour and fight level 20 trolls or drakes... for fun.
    Yeah, sometimes I can do that. I have fun in some of the jumping puzzles, and I did the Metrica Fire Elemental like...10 times just because it was at least a little challenge. But aside from that, I really have a hard time having fun just facerolling through things.
    Last edited by Bovinity Divinity; 2012-10-01 at 09:07 PM.

  10. #650
    The Insane DrakeWurrum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    I would say that is the crux of the franchise. Why did we run that dungeon, jump atop these rocks or farm that area? "Just because."
    The same reason most scientists and computer techies do things.
    I hope you haven't forgotten my role in this little story. I'm the leading man. You know what they say about the leading man? He never dies.

    If you give in to your impulses in this world, the price is that it changes your personality in the real world. The player and character are one and the same.

  11. #651
    Quote Originally Posted by Xenofreak View Post
    I need to try my hand in sPvP before I give a final answer, but I hate WvWvW. It might be good fun if you're part of a strong group running around, but if you aren't, prepare to suffer due to the lack of mounts, huge zone, and no teleport points. Spending 5 minutes running trying to find action only to find 5 people roaming around to kick my ass only to return to the very beginning of the zone turned me off of it pretty fast.
    WvW is meant to be played with a group. If you are just wandering around by yourself you are doing it wrong. My server has multiple alliances and multiple mumble/teamspeak servers that you can join if you aren't already part of an alliance. Get in there, find out where everyone is at, and join the party. If you want a game where you can run around solo and gank lowbies go play WoW. WvW is for team play and large scale battles. There's a reason it's called World vs World and not lonely individual vs lonely individual. Join your world and fight the opposing servers or stop taking up a slot for someone who is actually willing to help the cause.

    As for queue times, I'm on Jade Quarry (currently ranked 3rd in the US) and the queue really isn't that bad. Most nights even during prime time it takes 15-20 minutes to get into a borderland. Eternal Battlegrounds takes longer for sure, but I don't really care where I am as long as I'm fighting the good fight with some friends.

  12. #652
    Got to level 80 today with 189 hours /age on one character (lots of AFK time). So far enjoying it a lot, don't think I'll run out of things to do anywtime soon.

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-03 at 02:14 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    I would say that is the crux of the franchise. Why did we run that dungeon, jump atop these rocks or farm that area? "Just because."
    It is not different in that aspect. The reason I started playing WoW to begin with was the solid lore from Warcraft 3. "The crux" hasn't changed here, I do dungeons for the story. Maybe you guys have different reasons to play, but I don't think gear treadmill and competitiveness is very important for the majority in either wow or gw 2, maybe in other games, bot not MMORPGs.

  13. #653
    Herald of the Titans Jigain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by parcus View Post
    Maybe you guys have different reasons to play, but I don't think gear treadmill and competitiveness is very important for the majority in either wow or gw 2, maybe in other games, bot not MMORPGs.
    While I agree with you that gear treadmill and competitiveness was never an attraction in any MMO I've played, I feel I have to point out that you can't say "for the majority [of players]" about a personal opinion, unless you've got solid numbers to back it. Maybe you're right, maybe you're not. But there's been quite enough of generalizations based on personal opinions as it is.

  14. #654
    I'm enjoying the fact I don't need to do anything I dislike. I love having best gear in game. I loved that I don't have to worry about it at all.
    I don't like that I don't have much to do other than farming gold or explore. I hate spvp because of some mechanics, namely downed state which is terrible and that my class has to play "tanky" in order to be succesful -- I like to nuke ppl, not cc and kite them around.
    So... Feelings mixed. I still play it every evening, but I don't do anything but farm gold and do some occasional wvw with guild.
    IF they going to work on this game, IF they fix pve, make it easier and much more epic, IF they remove downed state, or at least add normal battlegrounds... Well then this game will be simply awesome.

  15. #655
    Quote Originally Posted by parcus View Post
    It is not different in that aspect. The reason I started playing WoW to begin with was the solid lore from Warcraft 3. "The crux" hasn't changed here, I do dungeons for the story. Maybe you guys have different reasons to play, but I don't think gear treadmill and competitiveness is very important for the majority in either wow or gw 2, maybe in other games, bot not MMORPGs.
    That sorta doesn't make sense though. Because the gameplay in World of Warcraft is not dependent on the story aspects. That also holds true for GW2.

    That the games have a "story" is fine. That one enjoys it is fine.

    Story is not gameplay.

    The expression of gameplay in WoW from literal level 1 through 60 [I don't know what the cap is now] is flatly revealed as a process of statistical upgrades. Like the very first quests in Eolwynn Forest are created in this manner.

  16. #656
    I love having best gear in game.
    Think a lot of people will like GW2 for this reason. Same reason you saw them clamoring for content nerfs in every other MMO: they want the best shinies. Dunno WHY they want them, since that demographic doesn't seem to like doing anything that actually challenges them, but they just want that loot.

  17. #657
    The Lightbringer Malthurius's Avatar
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    Well... I think I've been playing the end game since I started playing on the day the head start launched. I'm doing the same thing I did to level up at level 80 and I wouldn't still be playing if I didn't enjoy it. There are still things in game I haven't seen yet, running through the game a second time (because I wasn't happy with my main) I discovered so many things I didn't the first time, it's pretty amazing how much there is to see, and I still haven't seen it all and I don't think I will for months. I'm talking purely about PvE here.

    I haven't done a ton of PvP because it's not as interesting to me, and I refuse to pug the majority of a group, PvE or PvP.
    "Questions are for those seeking answers. Those who have answers are those who have asked questions." -Mike R. (Malthurius)

  18. #658
    Like the game overall apart from the diminishing returns systems they've implemented into farming drops and dynamic events. The dungeon system is fine, I'm used to running only a few dungeons a day anyway from wow and swtor, so that system doesn't bother me.

  19. #659
    Mechagnome Hjalmtyr's Avatar
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    The DR does seem a bit annoying. I'm not sure when it kicks in - I'm not a farming type of person, I usually drop by, cut through a few dynamic events, log off, etc. - but I'd be quite annoyed with diminishing returns on karma considering the price of some of the karma items. Would be penalising people for farming their exotics, which I'm not a massive fan of.

    That said, I'm not a... Video game engineer? I don't know what they call the guys who balance everything, but I can't really think of an alternative. I just wish there was a better way instead of busting it down for everyone.
    "Do you know what it's like to fall on the floor, cry your guts out til you got no more? Hey man, now you're really livin'" - Mark Everett

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  20. #660
    Watching an episode of After Dark, a live call-in show on Gamebreaker; the question of "endgame" in contrast to World of Warcraft style endgame came up. How long it will last in GW2, whether Anet will be able to retain players and such.

    Couldn't help but think of this thread and a few opinions I seen expressed on the forums over the last 8 months.

    The hosts gave great answers, in my opinion. In particular Josh Allen's response.

    http://www.viddler.com/v/2b00ac19?viddlertime=2821.172

    Question at 53:30.


    edit: wrong time, @ 53:30 is the question.
    Last edited by Fencers; 2012-10-04 at 01:12 PM.

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