View Poll Results: Are you enjoying the "Endgame"?

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  • Yes

    474 47.12%
  • No

    532 52.88%
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  1. #661
    Dreadlord Widow Maker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    Watching an episode of After Dark, a live call-in show on Gamebreaker; the question of "endgame" in contrast to World of Warcraft style endgame came up. How long it will last in GW2, whether Anet will be able to retain players and such.

    Couldn't help but think of this thread and a few opinions I seen expressed on the forums over the last 8 months.

    The hosts gave great answers, in my opinion. In particular Josh Allen's response.

    http://www.viddler.com/v/2b00ac19?viddlertime=2821.172

    Question at 53:30.


    edit: wrong time, @ 53:30 is the question.
    I agree with a lot of what they said, especially the if you remove grind/carrot on a stick from most mmo's no one would want to play them anymore because it's not fun to play most mmo's just for the sake of playing them. But that's not exactly the problem with GW2. Problem is, that the grind is not masked with tasks that are fun and challenging. There's also no great rewards to doing them. Most things in GW2 you do for the sake of doing them and for "fun". That doesn't work in mmo's nowadays. Like the guy said, replace the aspects that keep you hooked on mmo's with a "fun factor", and you'll see most people don't actually enjoy playing them just for fun.

    At the moment though, GW2 is the best side mmo. The game you play for shits and gigs while you wait for a raid or play super casually. I thought it was going to be my new main mmo that I would dedicate a lot of hours to and that's why I was somewhat disappointed. But now I see it for what it is, and I'm pretty content with it. I still wish it had some more competitive and challenging content, but in due time I think Anet will have one of the best games out there.
    Last edited by Widow Maker; 2012-10-04 at 09:20 PM.

  2. #662
    realy realy bord of this game i hit max lvl in 5 days :S apart from that its a great game i think

  3. #663
    In PvE it's a nice thing to sit and enjoy the sights, I still can't believe the wonderful amount of style and scenery in the world. I love slowing down, taking every enemy encounter like one shot would kill me, getting a nice look at all the eye candy sitting right there in front of me and just savoring it. I use as many abilities as I can, weapon/kit swapping like no other just keeps combat fun for me, most of the time I never get hit only in explorer modes/dragon events do I go down but that's mostly because of the spell effect spam.

    Overall I don't play any other MMO because Gw2 is just taking up too much of my time, I have so much to do and experience in the game that I know it'll keep me occupied for at least a year or so. Maybe it's the way I play that keeps me logging in and enjoying every second I honestly don't have a clue.
    Yes that is Spider-Man crying over a box of Uncle Ben's rice.

  4. #664
    since im 80 i do the same things i did while leveling.

    following the story (still 2 storymodes to do)
    crafting some stuff
    pvp
    wvwvw
    random events

    and it still makes the same fun it did with */random level bellow 80*

  5. #665
    Brewmaster Newbryn's Avatar
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    I just deleted my level 80 war and remade a guardian warrior was fun but got bored with it, but on that note I'm still enjoying the game.
    I accept RNJesus as my lord and savior.

  6. #666
    Dinged 80 a week ago and haven’t been able to motivate myself to log in to the game since then. My char won't progress beyond the cosmetics and just doing stuff for the sake of doing them is not enough for me. I want to progress my char and make it stronger but I can’t and starting an alt and get it to max level feels rather pointless for the same reason. I don’t much enjoy PvE and PvP (WvWvW) was fun for a while when leveling but after 80 I don’t see much point doing them anymore since they won’t have any lasting effect on either my character or my environment.

    It’s like playing BF3 without the stats and this is supposed to be a MMORG but it’s more like a MMO without the RG since there is no character progression. Character progression is what drives the RG part of a MMORG for me and without a goal the game lacks the ability to suck me in. Artificial goals like “hey have you been on every vista?” or “have you collected every dye in the game?” do not float my boat.

    I want to experience the addictive feeling that makes me long to log in and play but I don’t get that with GW2 after 80. It feels like I just finished the game.
    There are 10 kinds of people. Those who understand binary and those who dont.

  7. #667
    Quote Originally Posted by Infinitus View Post
    Dinged 80 a week ago and haven’t been able to motivate myself to log in to the game since then. My char won't progress beyond the cosmetics and just doing stuff for the sake of doing them is not enough for me. I want to progress my char and make it stronger but I can’t and starting an alt and get it to max level feels rather pointless for the same reason. I don’t much enjoy PvE and PvP (WvWvW) was fun for a while when leveling but after 80 I don’t see much point doing them anymore since they won’t have any lasting effect on either my character or my environment.

    It’s like playing BF3 without the stats and this is supposed to be a MMORG but it’s more like a MMO without the RG since there is no character progression. Character progression is what drives the RG part of a MMORG for me and without a goal the game lacks the ability to suck me in. Artificial goals like “hey have you been on every vista?” or “have you collected every dye in the game?” do not float my boat.

    I want to experience the addictive feeling that makes me long to log in and play but I don’t get that with GW2 after 80. It feels like I just finished the game.
    It's posts like this that make me wonder if people even know what they're getting when they get it. Everything you're complaining about? No gear progression at 80, etc? Yeah, that's been known since day 1, and hell, is a key ingredient to ANet's game design formula (see, all of GW1).

    I don't get it. I play games to have fun, relax, and (in the cases of online games) to have fun with friends spread across the country/world. Secondary is gear/power progression, especially once you consider that, in the grand scheme of things, gear progression is illusionary. I'm not sure how "see every vista" is more artificial than "get x piece of gear": seeing the vistas are, IMO, great, since it's a beautiful world, and vistas help show it off. Gear pieces come and go, and aside from the occasional piece are easily forgotten.

    And, in other games besides GW2, vanity is often a large driving factor for (at least some subset of) players. Why do people go back and farm old dungeons/raids/achievements (ie, in WoW)? Often, for mounts, or transmog gear, or pets, or vanity items such as the Orb of Deception, etc. Those are the types of goals (and players!) GW[1 and 2] is (mostly) intended for: player set goals, you do something because you want it or have fun doing it, not because you need it to become more powerful. No, it's not a game for everyone, but it does its job well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryngo Blackratchet View Post
    Yeah, Rhandric is right, as usual.

  8. #668
    Quote Originally Posted by rhandric View Post
    It's posts like this that make me wonder if people even know what they're getting when they get it. Everything you're complaining about? No gear progression at 80, etc? Yeah, that's been known since day 1, and hell, is a key ingredient to ANet's game design formula (see, all of GW1).

    I don't get it. I play games to have fun, relax, and (in the cases of online games) to have fun with friends spread across the country/world. Secondary is gear/power progression, especially once you consider that, in the grand scheme of things, gear progression is illusionary. I'm not sure how "see every vista" is more artificial than "get x piece of gear": seeing the vistas are, IMO, great, since it's a beautiful world, and vistas help show it off. Gear pieces come and go, and aside from the occasional piece are easily forgotten.

    And, in other games besides GW2, vanity is often a large driving factor for (at least some subset of) players. Why do people go back and farm old dungeons/raids/achievements (ie, in WoW)? Often, for mounts, or transmog gear, or pets, or vanity items such as the Orb of Deception, etc. Those are the types of goals (and players!) GW[1 and 2] is (mostly) intended for: player set goals, you do something because you want it or have fun doing it, not because you need it to become more powerful. No, it's not a game for everyone, but it does its job well.

    I bought the game because you have to try it first to know what it's about, especially after all the hype. How can you judge a game if you haven't tried it? Besides, I knew there was no sub so I wasn't being committed to the game if I didn’t like it.

    Vanity content can be ok as a filler for me when I want to take a break from progressing my character but as endgame content of its own it's nowhere near enough for me. The social aspect of a MMO for me is a bonus but not the reason I play a MMO. If it was I could just hang around on Twitter while playing a random game. While you get relaxed while being occupied by the completionist parts of the game I get insanely bored with it. Fun for me is action and progression and I don’t see it after 80.
    There are 10 kinds of people. Those who understand binary and those who dont.

  9. #669
    Quote Originally Posted by rhandric View Post

    And, in other games besides GW2, vanity is often a large driving factor for (at least some subset of) players. Why do people go back and farm old dungeons/raids/achievements (ie, in WoW)? Often, for mounts, or transmog gear, or pets, or vanity items such as the Orb of Deception, etc. Those are the types of goals (and players!) GW[1 and 2] is (mostly) intended for: player set goals, you do something because you want it or have fun doing it, not because you need it to become more powerful. No, it's not a game for everyone, but it does its job well.
    Usually because those people haven't got any gear to farm outside of raids. And as you know raids tend to have certain timetables, so you can't farm your gear whenever you want.

    I believe WoW has been as successful as it is mainly due to it's well-designed loot pinata. It gives you a sense of accomplishment, and it improves your character as well, giving you an advantage over other players, which is pretty enjoyable.

  10. #670
    Not as much as I'd hoped I would. I've actually started playing Diablo 3 again while I wait for Baldur's Gate: Enchanced Edition.

    There just isn't enough to do. WvW is dead on the server I'm on, so I can't 100% those maps yet, I'm already 80, I have zero motivation to spend the time/gold to max my professions right now since they don't provide anything unique to my character. I have all of my gear transmogged the way I want it. The events right now aren't rare enough to be interesting. There's only so many times I can kill the dragons, deal with temple invasions in Orr, etc... I swear I remember Anet saying some events would take months to unfold. Right now it seems 3 hours is the max.

    I still have a few more explorables to complete for dungeon master, but after that, I'll literally have NOTHING to do. But it's got no subscription, so I'm not concerned. I definitely got my money's worth.
    Last edited by Sojou; 2012-10-05 at 06:30 PM.

  11. #671
    Quote Originally Posted by Vice80 View Post
    I'm enjoying the fact I don't need to do anything I dislike. I love having best gear in game. I loved that I don't have to worry about it at all.
    I don't like that I don't have much to do other than farming gold or explore. I hate spvp because of some mechanics, namely downed state which is terrible and that my class has to play "tanky" in order to be succesful -- I like to nuke ppl, not cc and kite them around.
    So... Feelings mixed. I still play it every evening, but I don't do anything but farm gold and do some occasional wvw with guild.
    IF they going to work on this game, IF they fix pve, make it easier and much more epic, IF they remove downed state, or at least add normal battlegrounds... Well then this game will be simply awesome.
    well i think you are not in mmorpg club


    do not get me wrong ,, i know you maby play them from long time but when u say i hate to wrry about gears i do not want to do anything i dislike and must those things you dislike and hate to do them that you mention are things that most them based as built of MMORPG games

    the thing is ,, ok you find your home (gw2) and i am realy happy for you

    but there are many people that just say bad stuff and how gearing system in old games are bad or how !! healing , tank system is so bad and how they hate to work for the gears etc ..

    i am not talking about you ,, u just say what u feel but there are other people who just involve other MMORPG games in this , wich make me some time want to advise them to go play CoD cus i am sure they will like it

    when i say CoD they gana like it ,, it is not meaning that CoD with ( millions ) players is bad no !

    CoD is FPS game wich mean it is so diffrent from MMORPG when it come to PvP or GvG

    my point is that this game ( gw2 ) is way different than other MMORPG games .. there are a type of people that would love it and i respect then just love it and play it with out involve other games built .

    Mixing the style will make it good for some people who have diffrent style like in games as a player who play consult and some online pc

    but as me i love my MMORPG game ,, i love MMORPG style !

    i love that i have a drive and steps to make accomplishment and get good reputation when i try to do dengouns or pvp

    or even get reputation from getting a rare gears

    those games built are founded from past and i found people who dislike those important things in MMORPG start talking .

    if the people did not like basic things and important things in MMORPG games then i think they sould found other type of game

    gw2 is good for some of them maby yes

    i think gw2 is good for people who just want to have fun and exploring but soon or later this pattern ( no drive .. less aims and goals ) will make it just boring ..

    call me wrong but i never feel addicted to gw2

    yes yes it is not my game i know but let just say some thing here about people who already like gw2 and play it tell now :

    Are you feeling ADDICTED to gw2 or just having fun when you play it ? did you start feel boring ?


    not all have same answers ,,


    i realy respect you all guys but i am also OLD GAMMER

    i been playing games from longgg time

    and i play MMORPG from long time with many diffrent games so i have right to just say what i feel here ^^

    peace with loves

  12. #672
    Quote Originally Posted by Asseymcgee View Post
    I agree with a lot of what they said, especially the if you remove grind/carrot on a stick from most mmo's no one would want to play them anymore because it's not fun to play most mmo's just for the sake of playing them. But that's not exactly the problem with GW2. Problem is, that the grind is not masked with tasks that are fun and challenging. There's also no great rewards to doing them. Most things in GW2 you do for the sake of doing them and for "fun". That doesn't work in mmo's nowadays. Like the guy said, replace the aspects that keep you hooked on mmo's with a "fun factor", and you'll see most people don't actually enjoy playing them just for fun.
    GW 2 has the same type of content as any other MMORPG. More PVP than most I suppose. The problem with GW 2 is it has no significant progression which is a fatal flaw. Somehow progression in an MMORPG has become a bad thing when, of course, just the opposite is true. People like to progress. They like to get new things. They like to become more powerful in a game. The fact that ArenaNet doesn't understand that is just amazing.

    So how many of you all bought an I-phone 5 or plan on getting one or wished you had the money to buy one? Most of you I would expect. People like new things!! it's really just that simple. That GW 2 ignores this is exactly what is wrong with the game.

    You suggest there is something inherently more "fun" about playing GW 2 which should make up for the lack of progression. I find that highly doubtful. GW 2 is a PVP game with just enough PVE tacked on to try to attract the traditional MMORPG player base. There's nothing more "fun" about it than any other MMORPG and probably a great deal less "fun" than a really good MMORPG like WOW.

  13. #673
    Quote Originally Posted by Stellan View Post
    GW 2 has the same type of content as any other MMORPG. More PVP than most I suppose. The problem with GW 2 is it has no significant progression which is a fatal flaw. Somehow progression in an MMORPG has become a bad thing when, of course, just the opposite is true. People like to progress. They like to get new things. They like to become more powerful in a game. The fact that ArenaNet doesn't understand that is just amazing.
    I was in doubt that the game would be attractive to me without the gear progression, but it turns out that the cosmetic "progression" can indeed keep me engaged enough to keep experiencing the game (although I'm still not even past the gear progression yet, I only wear greens and don't have any exotic items). This has a big plus: it doesn't break the gameplay, which is far more important to me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stellan View Post
    So how many of you all bought an I-phone 5 or plan on getting one or wished you had the money to buy one? Most of you I would expect. People like new things!! it's really just that simple. That GW 2 ignores this is exactly what is wrong with the game.
    Not me, my Iphone 4 offers me just what I need from a cell phone, until it breaks I have no plans or wish to get a different one.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stellan View Post
    You suggest there is something inherently more "fun" about playing GW 2 which should make up for the lack of progression. I find that highly doubtful. GW 2 is a PVP game with just enough PVE tacked on to try to attract the traditional MMORPG player base. There's nothing more "fun" about it than any other MMORPG and probably a great deal less "fun" than a really good MMORPG like WOW.
    So, a game which certainly had most of it's development focused on PvE is a PvP game? Really? Don't take me wrong, PvP in GW 2 is highly attractive to me, but I disagree that this is a "PvP" game considering that in 90% of the zones you can't even PvP.

  14. #674
    Mechagnome Hjalmtyr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stellan View Post
    So how many of you all bought an I-phone 5 or plan on getting one or wished you had the money to buy one? Most of you I would expect. People like new things!! it's really just that simple. That GW 2 ignores this is exactly what is wrong with the game.
    Bad analogy, friend.

    There are two kinds of people who own iPhone 5s: stupid people and rich people. Stupid people see something new, throw their money at it without realising what they are doing and run over to it and enjoy it for a week before realising it's the same old crap with 2 new features.

    Rich people buy it and don't care because they have plenty of money anyway.
    "Do you know what it's like to fall on the floor, cry your guts out til you got no more? Hey man, now you're really livin'" - Mark Everett

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  15. #675
    Herald of the Titans Jigain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stellan View Post
    So how many of you all bought an I-phone 5 or plan on getting one or wished you had the money to buy one? Most of you I would expect. People like new things!! it's really just that simple. That GW 2 ignores this is exactly what is wrong with the game.
    I love my barely-a-week-old Samsung Galaxy S3. I also love GW2. Particularly the PvE. And how ArenaNet designed the progression.

    Your mind = blown yet?

  16. #676
    Pandaren Monk Ravenblade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Infinitus View Post
    I bought the game because you have to try it first to know what it's about, especially after all the hype. How can you judge a game if you haven't tried it? Besides, I knew there was no sub so I wasn't being committed to the game if I didn’t like it.
    I agree that if you want to judge a game properly then you have to try it but it's better to try a game based on informations rather than hype, isn't it?
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  17. #677
    I'm loving WvWvW right now. It's the PvE'rs PvP.

  18. #678
    Dreadlord Widow Maker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stellan View Post
    GW 2 has the same type of content as any other MMORPG. More PVP than most I suppose. The problem with GW 2 is it has no significant progression which is a fatal flaw. Somehow progression in an MMORPG has become a bad thing when, of course, just the opposite is true. People like to progress. They like to get new things. They like to become more powerful in a game. The fact that ArenaNet doesn't understand that is just amazing.

    So how many of you all bought an I-phone 5 or plan on getting one or wished you had the money to buy one? Most of you I would expect. People like new things!! it's really just that simple. That GW 2 ignores this is exactly what is wrong with the game.

    You suggest there is something inherently more "fun" about playing GW 2 which should make up for the lack of progression. I find that highly doubtful. GW 2 is a PVP game with just enough PVE tacked on to try to attract the traditional MMORPG player base. There's nothing more "fun" about it than any other MMORPG and probably a great deal less "fun" than a really good MMORPG like WOW.
    I don't see how you got that from my quoted post, or any of my posts. Matter of fact, I've been complaining that that's the problem with this game. MMORPGs are still RPGs and the main point of them is progression, challenge, items/loot and a sense of accomplishment. They kind of removed or altered all of that in the game and a lot of people don't like it. Like I've said before, the leveling process is amazing. But once you finish leveling...it gets old real fast. I also hate how you don't really socialize in this game. You're never encouraged or need/want to group up with anyone. Just running around from one zerg to the next is where you'll get max xp/loot/monies.

  19. #679
    GW 2 has the same type of content as any other MMORPG. More PVP than most I suppose. The problem with GW 2 is it has no significant progression which is a fatal flaw.
    Just a reminder: the first 4 games in the Guild Wars series had a similar progression model. Those games were successful enough that we wouldn't even be talking about Guild Wars 2 if the design philosophy was actually faulty.

  20. #680
    Mechagnome Hjalmtyr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Asseymcgee View Post
    I don't see how you got that from my quoted post, or any of my posts. Matter of fact, I've been complaining that that's the problem with this game. MMORPGs are still RPGs and the main point of them is progression, challenge, items/loot and a sense of accomplishment. They kind of removed or altered all of that in the game and a lot of people don't like it. Like I've said before, the leveling process is amazing. But once you finish leveling...it gets old real fast. I also hate how you don't really socialize in this game. You're never encouraged or need/want to group up with anyone. Just running around from one zerg to the next is where you'll get max xp/loot/monies.
    Problem I had right here. I think GW1 did it well because hitting the level cap was just a part of gameplay. The game got more difficult after cap. You capped at 20 but you weren't done with the story. The monsters went up, levels 20, then to 22, 24, 26, 28, even 30 (Those bone dragons in FoW).

    The thing is, progression still existed in GW1 because you were still on a set story mission well after level 20, and there was an expansion especially dedicated to level 20s. When I hit level 20, I was in the Crystal Desert. Was I done? Nope, still had to finish that, then do the southern shiverpeaks, then the ring of fire island chain. Because the levelling in GW2 lets you explore anywhere, the PvE after level cap is incredibly lackluster. I don't feel motivated to go to another zone because sure, playing is fun, but there are other games that have a better combat system and are more fun to play.

    I think that, even though the personal story carried on past level 80, this wasn't enough and Orr is so incredibly broken and difficult in some places that it's not fun anymore. You had at least 3 more archetypal environments (desert, tundra, volcano) before you were finished with the GW1 campaign. And for factions - City, Echovald + Jade Sea. And for nightfall! Desert, sulphurous wastes, realm of torment. GW2 lacks this and it's why it's less fun for PvE players who don't like grinding dungeons.
    "Do you know what it's like to fall on the floor, cry your guts out til you got no more? Hey man, now you're really livin'" - Mark Everett

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