Mafia game discussion thread.

[Rollo]

I agree with Worgen to a point. I actually liked the change to priority, but I'd like to see a modified version if we ever decide to go at it again. Imo protections should always come before kills, but no specific order to protections (still keep the first come first serve attitude). Potentially in that instance, say the doctor protects person A, and 30 minutes later the jk locks up the doctor. In that instance both person a and the doc get a protection. If it was flipped, only the doc would get the protection. When it comes to kills, they should happen after the protections, regardless of input time, but be ordered against other kills depending on time.

I do like Worgens idea of if an action is stated prior to night, it's counted as having been done at the time night began. That's actually how I thought it occurred. I was super busy at work yesterday and didn't know when is be able to return to my phone and get my action in. I feared if I posted too late that the mafia would hit me prior to testing his claim.

Lastly, there is an imbalance with protections not having prio over kills when a SK is present (especially the strongman, as worgen suggested). In the closed setup it does add to the confusion but also gives the strongman "power" to a quick or lucky poster.

@worgen
I went back and forth in my kills almost nightly. Maybe I shouldn't have used the edit just to show what exactly I was thinking, but j was tryin to keep it clean and concise for Krayzy and Keleb. I tried RPing as much as I could in my journal and came close to messaging you, but went to Majad instead. On the night of anakso's unfortunate demise, I think I had 3 different kill targets arranged. I'm actually surprised I still got my kill in prior to the mafia. I for sure thought I was late on that and that the mafia randomly wanted to kill one of their own to impart confusion on the SK or vigi. I didn't even fathom a bomb. Whn I finally did think of the bomb, I thought of our old bomb and not the new first target activates and second target blows up. I figured listo protected me night 2.

Vigilante was a ton of fun to play. Definitely a different style when you're killing for the town, but don't know what you're going after. As scum you know everyone you kill brings you closer to victory. As vigilante, you fear that each kill will be a detriment to your team. So exhausting.

@robo
Awesome idea with the journal. Such a blast and also much easier to keep thought processes going in a thread without looking like you're just talking to yourself. And yes, I was stressed both times I was mafia as well. It's difficult trying to keep that townie game going as mafia with the fear of not posting enough or posting way too damn much.

[Robozerim]

@robo
Awesome idea with the journal. Such a blast and also much easier to keep thought processes going in a thread without looking like you're just talking to yourself. And yes, I was stressed both times I was mafia as well. It's difficult trying to keep that townie game going as mafia with the fear of not posting enough or posting way too damn much.

That's what it's for, to have fun while writing it and to help keep one's thoughts in order, especially if you're by yourself. Your diary was immensely entertaining. Mine was a little harder to do this time because I had allies, but it still served it's purpose.

[Lysah]

@Worgenite
I told rolo to kill you because it would cover all potential outcomes of loss for me. I couldn't be ACTUALLY sure of any role but mine. Telling rolo to kill you accomplishes 2 things:
1) check if you're actually a doctor
2) give rolo a better target than me if he's an SK and not a vigilante

I considered that you would be a doctor and die anyway to priorities, but I played with an estimation of team sizes the entire time. I wouldn't have risked so much if I thought we were a day from losing. I figured if you were a doctor and got NKed by the vigilante, we still had a day to find the other mafia. With kel telling the truth and not being counter claimed, there were 2 unknowns at that point and I could investigate one and would know both of their roles, which is what happened. I think you would get friends killed to guarantee a win, too =p

What surprises me is that the mafia didn't go for me two nights in a row.

This game was stacked in the town's favor, it appears keleb expected people to be AFK for the holidays and for us to actually hit the time deadline with long days/nights. For once, MMOC mafia was MORE active than expected? =p

Of course, the unknown set up and strange role additions (heavy town + santa claus) combined with two NKs in a 16 person game leading to 4 dead town from the start is what pushed me into playing so aggressively. Had I known it was just a big mafia team and a vigilante I probably wouldn't have role claimed like that and the game might not have been quite as one sided. I took several huge risks this game that would probably have resulted in a night kill and a lost game in 9/10 other games. Up until the last day or two I was concerned the game was severely stacked against the town, actually.

If anyone wants a summary of the PM correspondence as it happened I can try to give that, since many people seem confused in the dead thread as to how this game was actually played by me/rolo/worgen/majad/silkku

[listo95]

I really did like this way night worked for this game. But I do think for some TPRs there should only be 1 unless we get a large game. I mean with 2 docs, the second one of us role claimed the other would counter and one of us would die to prove we are who we are (what happened to me). I think if it was kept to one it would have been better.

[Rigimi44]

It's too bad I died on Night 1. Santa seemed like a pretty fun role, but I guess I deserved it for all my soft claiming. Rolo, your thread was pretty fun to read, nice roleplaying.

[Robozerim]

It's too bad I died on Night 1. Santa seemed like a pretty fun role, but I guess I deserved it for all my soft claiming. Rolo, your thread was pretty fun to read, nice roleplaying.

Yeah, I didn't think you were Santa Claus, I didn't think anybody would soft claim like that on day one. I killed you just as much because I figured you wouldn't get bomb two games in a row. I realize that is faulty reasoning though, as you were just as likely as Anakso (or anybody else) to get bomb this game. RNG does not care what role a player had the last round.

---------- Post added 2012-12-26 at 11:29 AM ----------

I forgot to say something to Rolo.

Damn you Rolo! I was going to use the last game as a dream angle next time I had a solo power role! >.<

---------- Post added 2012-12-26 at 11:40 AM ----------

If anyone wants a summary of the PM correspondence as it happened I can try to give that, since many people seem confused in the dead thread as to how this game was actually played by me/rolo/worgen/majad/silkku

I know I'm fine, now that I've read that Silkku told our vigilante that Majad was a traitor (presumably after you told Silkku) the only major question I had was answered.

[Nightfury Treann]

Yay lynched again by Lysah when i'm asleep.

[Deleted]

Third game in a row as scum.

[Lysah]

Yay lynched again by Lysah when i'm asleep.

You were mafia, so???

[snewt]

Just got lycned

[Nightfury Treann]

You were mafia, so???

Where's your proof of it?! and don't come with the "I'm Lysah" or "i don't púst" and all that stuff!

[Dyra]

Where's your proof of it?! and don't come with the "I'm Lysah" or "i don't púst" and all that stuff!

She gave her reasoning in her post. I think the gist of it was, it was me or you and since she investigated me and I came back as Town. Therefore you had to go. <3

[Rollo]

I forgot to say something to Rolo.

Damn you Rolo! I was going to use the last game as a dream angle next time I had a solo power role! >.<

I wasn't quite sure what angle I wanted to take and then my gf suggested making it all a dream. "How else can the same people play over and over in the same town with different roles each time? It's always just a dream!" Yes I talk to my gf about these games. I've been trying to get her to join as she's showed interest, but hasn't actually followed any games yet. I realized towards the end of the game I lost the RP flavor for more strategy. Truth be told I was super busy at work yesterday (yes on Christmas). The weather doesn't wait for a non holiday to screw with outside systems and equipment. I was thinking strategy all day and would jot down what I could, but couldn't actually spend the time actually developing a story for my character.

I know it doesn't show I ha a different target on night 2 in my thread, but I had Treann down originally. I was telling myself I was going to kill Lysah, Treann, Anakso or Silkku, and I think I had even mentioned those suspicions to Majad. I know he mentioned a few to me, but I can't remember which off hand. But anyways I had finally made up my mind on Anakso, but typed out Treann. Went and posted my next journal entry and realized I wrote the wrong name down. I could only imagine what would have happened if I never caught my initial mistake. Kisuro wouldn't have died, same with Anakso. Night 2 would have a missing kill. Worgen might have believed he prevented a kill on himself, and listo may have reached out to whomever he protected night 2. Initial outcome would still have been the same for mafia, they'd be down 2 people, but they'd most likely hit Anakso the plowing night and died. I know if that mistake would have gone through I probably would have targeted Anakso or night 3, depending on how day 3 panned out. Would have been a completely different game.

[Lysah]

She gave her reasoning in her post. I think the gist of it was, it was me or you and since she investigated me and I came back as Town. Therefore you had to go. <3

Yep that's pretty much it. The other alternatives were kel was lying, but then there had to be a real mason somewhere not speaking up, or rolo was a SK not a vigilante, in which case we could lynch him the next day since it would still be 1v2.

[listo95]

Rolo the answer is obvious, none of us are dreaming. We just get reborn every game and forget what ever skills we had previously!

[keleb]

bumping for justice.

What I have suggested if you ever try this again is in the dead thread. It's not fair to allow people to post actions earlier and still allow it to count as earlier. They should all be taken into account exactly when night officially ends(as in, you or whoever is co-modding says 'so and so was lynched by the town, it's night'). Any actions that would be taken into account now would then be put into the normal order of night actions(also, what would've happened in the off chance the mafia did their action the same time the vigi did his and they targeted each other?) allowing for more balanced play. I should not have died last night, but b/c you decided to accept night actions hours before night I got killed. It's bullshit and if it's ever done this way again, I'm not playing.

and don't bring up what you said in the dead thread about "well so and so can miss a claim by the cop and allow the cop be killed by the mafia." That's their own damn fault for slipping that bad and not changing their action beforehand.

Bolded: I take you meant when day ends and night begins from what you wrote in the brackets.

In this game there was no normal order of night actions. I can somewhat agree that posting before night actually begins shouldn't also put them ahead. Putting them ahead is an advantage. I am going to give you the "so and so can miss a claim etc.". It is a disadvantage and shouldn't be ignored. However, it may not have been great enough to justify the advantage of being put ahead of the night action posted at night. The best solution might have been to put them in reverse order at the end of night, after all the other night actions.

Had two night actions interfering with each other been posted at the same minute I would probably have done a heads or tails on which went first or allowed both to happen at the same time if it was possible (as in Vigi and mafia kill each other).

I've stated before but will again. This game was not a normal game. My intention is to go back to a "normal" (what is normal anyway) game again for next game.

Another case of trust in Elyaan.

If you do, the town will win.

I'm tempted to call in a favour I have with the RNG gods to make you mafia for next game.

I still hate you for doing that!

That's not how I interpreted what Keleb and Kray said.

The traitor role used in this game was the traitor role that was used prior to game 16-ish. That version does not have the requirement to be converted to win. However if you die before getting converted (like Majad did) you lose. A VT that dies will still win if the town does. A traitor attempting to win for town must thus stay alive until game end to win. A converted traitor can still win if killed if mafia wins the game. For this game I felt the old version fitted better as it does not require the same activity.

I agree with Worgen to a point. I actually liked the change to priority, but I'd like to see a modified version if we ever decide to go at it again. Imo protections should always come before kills, but no specific order to protections (still keep the first come first serve attitude). Potentially in that instance, say the doctor protects person A, and 30 minutes later the jk locks up the doctor. In that instance both person a and the doc get a protection. If it was flipped, only the doc would get the protection. When it comes to kills, they should happen after the protections, regardless of input time, but be ordered against other kills depending on time.

I do like Worgens idea of if an action is stated prior to night, it's counted as having been done at the time night began. That's actually how I thought it occurred. I was super busy at work yesterday and didn't know when is be able to return to my phone and get my action in. I feared if I posted too late that the mafia would hit me prior to testing his claim.

Lastly, there is an imbalance with protections not having prio over kills when a SK is present (especially the strongman, as worgen suggested). In the closed setup it does add to the confusion but also gives the strongman "power" to a quick or lucky poster.

The variable order used in this game was fun, but I can't really see it work as well in a normal game. If I (or someone else) can come up with a way to make it work I might try it out in a later game (but not 22). I can't say I like it with just determining the order within a certain "category" like kills and protections. Actions posted before night has not been allowed in games before this special game that I know of and will not be allowed in future games.

This game was stacked in the town's favor, it appears keleb expected people to be AFK for the holidays and for us to actually hit the time deadline with long days/nights. For once, MMOC mafia was MORE active than expected? =p

Very much so. I was very surprised with the activity. I expected a missed night action or two each night but apart from the first night there was none.

[ELYPOP]

I'm tempted to call in a favour I have with the RNG gods to make you mafia for next game.

Trust in Ely and the town will.. win.

[Robozerim]

Would have been a completely different game.

Yeah, it would have. However, you could easily state that any game would be a completely different game had things gone just a little bit differently early on. Another example would be if those joke votes against me on day one became an actual lynch, or if I chose to plow ahead immediately with the decision to kill Anakso night two instead of waiting to see if any more discussion would happen on the subject, you could have died instead of Kisuro.

[keleb]

Yep that's pretty much it. The other alternatives were kel was lying, but then there had to be a real mason somewhere not speaking up, or rolo was a SK not a vigilante, in which case we could lynch him the next day since it would still be 1v2.

Hmm... the situation with kel being lone mason has made me think of putting in a game with either two bands of masons or a lone mason into a future game with closed setup.

---------- Post added 2012-12-26 at 11:31 PM ----------

Something to learn from this game is that two docs isn't twice as good as one.

[listo95]

You think keleb? Which is why I think for TPRs there should very rarely be more than 1.