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  1. #1

    Is weapon swapping neccessary to optimize DPS?

    I'm curious, not because I don't feel like it or am incapable. I've just been trying a mesmer greatsword - sword/focus setup and it becomes VERY awkward. Mainly because greatsword you want to be as far as you can, and sword you got to be right in its face. So I keep running in and out in the fight if it's not on me. And I tried scepter in mainhand but that felt weak with a crit power build since it's strongest attack is a condition.

    Is it ok to just do your basic 1 attack and still be doing decent damage? Or do I really want to be running in and out all day with this setup? Or is this just a terrible setup? If thats the case it doesn't seem like much of anything works well with greatsword and almost like have to run condition for mesmer.

    I mainly had the idea that I'd stay at range unless something comes after me and then switch to sword. But in dungeons it doesn't always work that way, in fact it usually doesn't. Many times the mob will just be hitting someone else and you can sit ranged all day. So is it ok to just spam 1 while everything else is on CD?

  2. #2
    Dreadlord Ninaran's Avatar
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    Should go Greatsword+Staff. Chaos Storm alone is golden.

  3. #3
    for maxximum dps you want to switch and manage your cd right.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Stormgnoef View Post
    for maxximum dps you want to switch and manage your cd right.
    Depends on the class. Thieves will do max damage using D/D and just auto attacking and using their initiative for C&D (skill 5) to enter stealth for backstabs. No need to change to anything else.

  5. #5
    Bloodsail Admiral Riavan's Avatar
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    Not on engineers!

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Stormgnoef View Post
    for maxximum dps you want to switch and manage your cd right.
    That may be true for some classes, but definitely not all of them. With my Warrior, I got the most throughput from just stacking sword bleeds, which, if I swapped weapons, wouldn't be getting reapplied as much
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  7. #7
    For maximum dps? Yes it's necessary.

    For having fun playing the way you want to play? No it's not necessary.

    Swapping weapons and managing your CDs properly is the best way to maximize Dps. In the case of elementists, attunement swapping is mandatory in order for you to maximize your potential at anything you do, regardless of what people say. You may only have to swap between 2 or 3 attunements for certain builds, but you still have to swap to be the best you can be. Same applies to all professions IMO. You need to swap in order to maximize anything. I know others may argue against this case, but they can continue to be subpar compared to the people who actually know how to play.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Zephyr Storm View Post
    For maximum dps? Yes it's necessary.

    For having fun playing the way you want to play? No it's not necessary.

    Swapping weapons and managing your CDs properly is the best way to maximize Dps. In the case of elementists, attunement swapping is mandatory in order for you to maximize your potential at anything you do, regardless of what people say. You may only have to swap between 2 or 3 attunements for certain builds, but you still have to swap to be the best you can be. Same applies to all professions IMO. You need to swap in order to maximize anything. I know others may argue against this case, but they can continue to be subpar compared to the people who actually know how to play.
    Elementalist != every class

    Stance dancing is obviously intended to be a part of that class, thus it's required to play correctly. There's other Classes that don't work exactly the same way though, for instance melee Classes. You have to carry a ranged weapon, if you want to be able to do half the stuff in the game, so bringing only melee weapons isn't really an option, but the ranged does less damage, so if you actually have melee uptime, it would be extremely counter productive to pull your rifle out in melee range

    It is overall a true statement though, as you'll have to switch between ranged and melee a lot
    Last edited by Shadylol; 2012-09-14 at 02:51 AM.
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  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadylol View Post
    That may be true for some classes, but definitely not all of them. With my Warrior, I got the most throughput from just stacking sword bleeds, which, if I swapped weapons, wouldn't be getting reapplied as much
    One could also argue that stacking sword bleeds only applies to certain situations. There are times when you NEED to go ranged and not swapping will greatly decrease your dps or output. This applies to various situations throughout the game. And yes I know...for particular fights, sticking to one weapon may be the better alternative, but OVERALL...swapping is necessary for maximum output. To say otherwise shows lack of knowledge with basic game mechanics and encounters in GW2.

    ---------- Post added 2012-09-13 at 09:51 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadylol View Post
    Elementalist != every class
    It was just an example dude. I really thought that would be obvious. And the fact that I did mention other profs in regards to eles proves your post incorrect.

  10. #10
    Scarab Lord Blznsmri's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadylol View Post
    Elementalist != every class
    Ranger Short Bow + Swap Pets for traited Quickness buff + Stack 6 bleeds + Swap to Longbow + Quickening Zephyr + Hunter's Shot + Rapid Fire

    That's a lot of damage you just dished out.
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  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Zephyr Storm View Post
    One could also argue that stacking sword bleeds only applies to certain situations. There are times when you NEED to go ranged and not swapping will greatly decrease your dps or output. This applies to various situations throughout the game. And yes I know...for particular fights, sticking to one weapon may be the better alternative, but OVERALL...swapping is necessary for maximum output. To say otherwise shows lack of knowledge with basic game mechanics and encounters in GW2.

    ---------- Post added 2012-09-13 at 09:51 PM ----------



    It was just an example dude. I really thought that would be obvious. And the fact that I did mention other profs in regards to eles proves your post incorrect.
    Changing to your ranged weapon is the result of not being able to do anything in melee range, it's not something you do for more DPS though

    If you had 100% uptime, it would be more viable to just stand there with swords
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  12. #12
    Pit Lord HBpapa's Avatar
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    Depends on the build and the class.

    For my guardian with greatsword+hammer...yes.
    For my necro with scepter/focus+staff...no.
    For my warrior with axes+rifle...who cares? Shit just dies.
    For my melee mesmer...definitely.
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  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadylol View Post
    Changing to your ranged weapon is the result of not being able to do anything in melee range, it's not something you do for more DPS though

    If you had 100% uptime, it would be more viable to just stand there with swords
    And yet being forced to switch from melee to ranged and vice versa, completely and utterly applies to A LOT of the content in GW2, therefore affecting your maximum dps in huge portions of the game. Sure, if you want to ignore large portions of the game then what you said would be true. But in the grand scheme of things in GW2, what you said is not true.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Zephyr Storm View Post
    And yet being forced to switch from melee to ranged and vice versa, completely and utterly applies to A LOT of the content in GW2, therefore affecting your maximum dps in huge portions of the game. Sure, if you want to ignore large portions of the game then what you said would be true. But in the grand scheme of things in GW2, what you said is not true.
    Now you're bouncing around inside your own argument

    I said stacking sword bleeds all day whenever you have melee uptime is optimal, because you have to carry a ranged weapon, as the game forces you out of melee often. Now, you accuse me of not understanding that I need a ranged weapon?

    You're either completely lost, or just arguing with me for the sake of arguing
    Rest In Peace, World of Warcraft. Subscriber count doesn't matter, WoW has been dead in spirit for a while
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  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadylol View Post
    Now you're bouncing around inside your own argument

    I said stacking sword bleeds all day whenever you have melee uptime is optimal, because you have to carry a ranged weapon, as the game forces you out of melee often. Now, you accuse me of not understanding that I need a ranged weapon?

    You're either completely lost, or just arguing with me for the sake of arguing
    I LOVE how you edited your original post. I was trying to point out the obvious flaw in your statement, and you went back and changed it and are now trying to make me sound like I don't know what I'm talking about. But nice try dude. I caught you.

    And no, you're still wrong. Having 100% melee uptime for maximum dps with JUST swords for a warrior WOULD be ideal yes. But that's not how this game works and to state that theory of yours is inaccurate at best. Your statement applies to certain situations. My statement applies to the game as a whole. Learn the difference.

  16. #16
    I played Elementalist to lv44, and Fire Attunement had the highest DPS by far. So regarding pure damage output, and disregarding other roles, staying attuned to fire was the best choice, undisputable.

    But Elementalist is a lot more effective when switching attunements. It sacrifices some DPS for great CC, and boons and conditions. Arguably, switching attunements would increase survival time, thus increasing damage output. But as for raw damage, fire, and only fire, is best.

    My Guardian is now lv69. I use Hammer and Mace/Shield. My Hammer has the higher DPS, and regardless of when I switch weapons, my DPS goes down if I switch to Mace/Shield. My survivability goes up though. If I'm looking for DPS, I use Hammer exclusively, but if things start to get dicey, I switch to Mace/Shield.

    Switching weapons is best for being the most effective player, but it won't always yield the most DPS.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Gisei View Post
    I played Elementalist to lv44, and Fire Attunement had the highest DPS by far. So regarding pure damage output, and disregarding other roles, staying attuned to fire was the best choice, undisputable.

    But Elementalist is a lot more effective when switching attunements. It sacrifices some DPS for great CC, and boons and conditions. Arguably, switching attunements would increase survival time, thus increasing damage output. But as for raw damage, fire, and only fire, is best.

    My Guardian is now lv69. I use Hammer and Mace/Shield. My Hammer has the higher DPS, and regardless of when I switch weapons, my DPS goes down if I switch to Mace/Shield. My survivability goes up though. If I'm looking for DPS, I use Hammer exclusively, but if things start to get dicey, I switch to Mace/Shield.

    Switching weapons is best for being the most effective player, but it won't always yield the most DPS.
    You are really missing the point. Maximizing dps in this game requires the survivability aspect of classes as well. Being a glass cannon for a few seconds and then being dead is NOT maximizing dps. Switching weapons and increasing survivability so that you can CONTINUE to do damage for a longer period of time IS maximizing dps. This isn't WoW where you stand in one place, go through a rotation, and never have to worry about something whacking you because there is a tank to hold aggro and a healer to keep you alive when you take a spike in damage. Being versatile and survivable in this game allows you to maximize dps.

    And staying in fire attunement ALL the time is NOT the most effective way to dps as an ele. Traiting and gearing for certain builds that take attunement swapping into account is the most effective way to dps. Especially when you take my survivability comment into consideration. Have fun staying in fire attunement at all times and being dead at end game and in explore modes.
    Last edited by Zephyr Storm; 2012-09-14 at 03:49 AM.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Zephyr Storm View Post
    I LOVE how you edited your original post. I was trying to point out the obvious flaw in your statement, and you went back and changed it and are now trying to make me sound like I don't know what I'm talking about. But nice try dude. I caught you.

    And no, you're still wrong. Having 100% melee uptime for maximum dps with JUST swords for a warrior WOULD be ideal yes. But that's not how this game works and to state that theory of yours is inaccurate at best. Your statement applies to certain situations. My statement applies to the game as a whole. Learn the difference.
    Lol? I edited the post about Elementalist stance dancing, to elaborate the point; not the post about Warrior weapon swapping

    Stop putting words in my mouth. You clearly got confused at some point, and decided to accuse me of lacking knowledge which I have already demonstrated. You stand to gain nothing from continuing this, I understand that you got mixed up, and I'm not upset
    Rest In Peace, World of Warcraft. Subscriber count doesn't matter, WoW has been dead in spirit for a while
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  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Zephyr Storm View Post
    You are really missing the point. Maximizing dps in this game requires the survivability aspect of classes as well. Being a glass cannon for a few seconds and then being dead is NOT maximizing dps. Switching weapons and increasing survivability so that you can CONTINUE to do damage for a longer period of time IS maximizing dps. This isn't WoW where you stand in one place, go through a rotation, and never have to worry about something whacking you because there is a tank to hold aggro and a healer to keep you alive when you take a spike in damage. Being versatile and survivable in this game allows you to maximize dps.

    And staying in fire attunement ALL the time is NOT the most effective way to dps as an ele. Training and gearing for certain builds that take attunement swapping into account is the most effective way to dps. Especially when you take my survivability comment into consideration. Have fun staying in fire attunement at all times and being dead at end game and in explore modes.
    I'm missing the point? But you basically just said what I said. So are we both missing the point?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gisei View Post
    So regarding pure damage output, and disregarding other roles, staying attuned to fire was the best choice, undisputable.
    Talking about damage. Not survivability or any other factors.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gisei View Post
    But Elementalist is a lot more effective when switching attunements.
    Uhh...

    Quote Originally Posted by Gisei View Post
    Switching weapons is best for being the most effective player
    Yep...

    Being effective encompasses all factors.

  20. #20
    Zephyr you're wrong.

    Maximising DPS is doing the most damage - it's essentially playing the risk v reward card so tightly that 1 mess up ends in death, but because of you playing this card you do absurd damage. While it's true you "do not do damage while dead", in order to maximise your DPS we're talking about losing all defenses in order to push numbers as much as possible. What you're talking about is effective DPS, and there is a difference.

    Two different thief builds (they play the same):
    build 1 - http://gw2skills.net/editor/en/?fYAQ...IwxijDHJOLIGZA
    build 2 - http://gw2skills.net/editor/en/?fYAQ...JsyalzKpVDImZA

    largely similar however, build 1 sacrifices all defense and will push out maximum DPS, build do sacrifices some DPS for toughness in order to get more backstabs (you're losing power so you need to make up for it in damage), thus has a chance at doing more effective DPS.

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