Stamina Buff

[freddy090909]

In Ghostcrawler's Buff and Debuff Design post, he points out that all Warlocks will bring the Stamina buff.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/4574894

"Stamina

Effect: +10% Stamina

Example: Power Word: Fortitude

Brought by: Any priest, any warlock, any warrior"

I'm curious as to if this really is the case, my group is currently trying to build a raid composition for Mists, but this seems to be the real limiting point. As it is right now, our composition looks like this (note that the hunter does bring spell haste, the calculator simply has not been updated):
http://raidcomp.mmo-champion.com/?c=...00000000000000

Have all pets been standardized (similar to hunters) to perform equally, or will our warlock be pigeon holed into playing only one spec? It seems odd to me that most buffs have become standard across all "dps" specs of a class (exceptions being shaman and druid because their specs fill different roles), but this one might not have. We would prefer to bring something like a mage in our group, especially from a token standpoint - we already have 3 on the conqueror token, but will hesitantly bring a shadow priest if we are forced into it.

[Xelnath]

Are you saying you want Grimoire of Sac imp to bring the HP buff? ;P

[Flatspriest]

You realize the blog you linked is from early March and that a great many things have changed design wise since that blog was posted?

[pokeadott]

Tbf, it would make sense to tack it onto DI. AI is spell power & crit as a comparison. It's more that the imp is a subpar option for dps these days.

[Madisyn]

http://www.wowhead.com/guide=1100#buffs-stamina

That should answer any buff questions you might have. To answer your question, imps are the only lock pet (that I'm aware of) that bring the stam buff.

[freddy090909]

You realize the blog you linked is from early March and that a great many things have changed design wise since that blog was posted?

Sure, but that does not defeat the fact that for the most part it is pretty accurate (except it seems to exclude a few hunter pet possibilities - probably to keep from having hunter listed in practically every category). Assuming that this is no longer reliable, what design decision could have been made to remove the Stamina buff from all warlock specs? Again, I mentioned that for other classes, it tends to be that the buffs are consistent across all of a class's "dps" specs (excluding shaman and druid, whose dps specs fill different roles).

Another question along side this is whether or not it is viable for a warlock to use any pet regardless of spec (namely Imp), with only minor DPS loss?

[darkminaz]

well a warlock brings 8% debuff + 10% spelldmg
and well id kinda would love the 10% hp to but not that important for me actualy since you need a shadow for 5% haste anyway

edit: and any wl spec bringts hp buff .. you just have to destroy your dps for raid support

[freddy090909]

well a warlock brings 8% debuff + 10% spelldmg
and well id kinda would love the 10% hp to but not that important for me actualy since you need a shadow for 5% haste anyway

edit: and any wl spec bringts hp buff .. you just have to destroy your dps for raid support

First, we do not need shadow for the spell haste, our hunter will be bringing that (all other possible pet buffs are already covered in some way), the calculator has just not been updated to include Sporebats yet.

At your comment on that the warlock will have to destroy his DPS, that is what one of my big questions was: Is the difference between warlock pets minimal enough to warrant using the Imp? For example: Felhunter no longer gains bonus damage from the number of dots on your target, so what puts it so far ahead of the imp in terms of damage?

Another option we have is to just use scrolls of fortitude for a pseudo-buff if we really don't want to sacrifice group composition, but that is a "simple" fix that could turn out to be an annoyance more than anything else.

[lancore89]

The difference between pets is small enough to choose one for its utility
The difference between pet and sacrifice right now for affliction is about 5%. Noticable, but you could live with it. It probably just means that your lock won't play affliction

For detailed pet comparisons, see the the lock simcraft thread at EJ

But pet balance is usually changing quite a lot over an expansion, so who knows...

[Deleted]

Are you saying you want Grimoire of Sac imp to bring the HP buff? ;P

Or bake it in with Dark Intent? Much like Arcane intellect is 10% spellpower and 5% critical strike, our DI can be 10% spellpower and stamina.

I would much prefer to have 10% spellpower and 5% spell haste though :]

[Deleted]

Or bake it in with Dark Intent? Much like Arcane intellect is 10% spellpower and 5% critical strike, our DI can be 10% spellpower and stamina.

I would much prefer to have 10% spellpower and 5% spell haste though :]

Either of those would be a nice improvement, I originally thought things had changed up quite a bit since I had one group buff and very few to no single target buffs, whereas pre-patch I had no group buffs but armour / SL / DI to cast etc.

I now rarely even bother with DI because it's just flat out inferior to a mages version, feels pretty worthless most the time (Yes, I know - some groups don't have a mage - but considering the ratio of mages to warlocks, far more likely to be the other way around).

[Zharradan]

stamina on sacrifice imp YES please, it would give me a reason to sacrifice imp instead of voidwalker (on raid situations)

spell haste on dark intent is a must IMHO... there was a thread saying that only hybrid casters bring spell haste to raid, and this is true, but many 10man raids just have 1 mage 1 warlock and 2-3 healers... so, no spell haste buffs...

but this was already covered when they said "if you don't have a hybrid caster you don't need this buff"

[paulywally]

In Ghostcrawler's Buff and Debuff Design post, he points out that all Warlocks will bring the Stamina buff.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/4574894

"Stamina

Effect: +10% Stamina

Example: Power Word: Fortitude

Brought by: Any priest, any warlock, any warrior"

I'm curious as to if this really is the case, my group is currently trying to build a raid composition for Mists, but this seems to be the real limiting point. As it is right now, our composition looks like this (note that the hunter does bring spell haste, the calculator simply has not been updated):
http://raidcomp.mmo-champion.com/?c=...00000000000000

Have all pets been standardized (similar to hunters) to perform equally, or will our warlock be pigeon holed into playing only one spec? It seems odd to me that most buffs have become standard across all "dps" specs of a class (exceptions being shaman and druid because their specs fill different roles), but this one might not have. We would prefer to bring something like a mage in our group, especially from a token standpoint - we already have 3 on the conqueror token, but will hesitantly bring a shadow priest if we are forced into it.

Not at all.

Minions are far from standardized.

Warlock pets have always been situational, which makes them differently unique.

Hunters pet can't mass dispel

[Grubjuice]

Runescroll of Fortitude?

Frankly i would accept that there are occasionally gaps in the raid-buff table if you are running a 10-man and if there is going to be a gap, the stamina is the least likely to affect performance unless you are really pushing really challenging content. Better the Stamina buff be missing than the haste buff i say.

Also The difference between pet dps is less than it was in Cata but not non-existant.
You will do less dps with an imp than with a Felhunter, but it is a gross exaggeration to claim that your are eviscerating your dps.
You need to discuss the merits of sacrificing survivability with raid dps in a logical cost-benefit way (which is harder for that encounter? surviving or reaching the enrage timer?)

Imp actually is very good for some specific uses anyway (ranged and target switching) so if the fight involes any ranged attacks like that, use Imp.

[smegdawg]

I would not like to see GoSac Imp giving us the fort buff as an interrupt, even on the GCD, will be more useful to me, especially in situations like Challenge Modes. The only way I would be ok with getting the stam buff with GoSac imp is if we got to keep the interrupt as well, which is unreasonable as then it is providing more benefit to sac your imp then another demon. Plus there is only one "Command Demon" button.

I'd still rather see any Buff rework focus on the Spell Haste buff.

What I's like to see is to have one of the Pure Caster DPS, Mages and Warlocks, provide this buff. Currently Mages and Warlocks both provide 10% spell power in every spec, along with all Shamans, and BM Hunters. One of the two Pure Caster DPS needs to provide the Spell Haste instead. The Physical damages buffs provide a good example for this.

The two Pure Physical DPS, Hunters and Rogues, provide Attack power and Melee/Ranged Haste respectively in all of their specs. This is the ideal situation and was very intelligently designed. The Spell Buffs model should follow this.

I would like to see a change to Warlock's Dark Intent. Rather then providing 10% spell power, it should give us the 5% spell haste. It fits well with all specs for the class, and is reminiscent of the previous incarnation of the spell.

[Grubjuice]

I would like to see a change to Warlock's Dark Intent. Rather then providing 10% spell power, it should give us the 5% spell haste. It fits well with all specs for the class, and is reminiscent of the previous incarnation of the spell.

or perhaps 10% spell power AND haste in the same way that Arcane Brilliance provides 10% SP AND Crit.

[Moggie]

Dunno. I think it'd make more sense having Mages and Locks just bring the same buff instead of one being superior (Mages) to the other, even though having crit instead of haste would make sense on DI.

[Xelnath]

Warlocks will NOT bring both spell power buffs.

The point is that stacking similar roles with different classes helps each other out in serving their main role :P

You have CoE and DI - so you bring 10% * 105% damage, same as mages.

[Deleted]

Would go a long way to give all shaman specs 5% spell haste as it was before 5.04

[Grubjuice]

Elemental (Haste + Mastery + SP)
Balance (Haste + Stats)
Shadow (Haste + Stamina)

Lock (SP + dmg)
Mage (SP + Crit)

if anything the outlier is elemental shaman!

---------- Post added 2012-09-14 at 02:24 PM ----------

addendum, from a different perspective:

Haste is divided into spell and physical haste
But Crit and Mastery and Stats and Stamina benefit every role: healers, tanks, physical DPS and magic DPS.

so manybe the haste buff should be merged into a +5% haste of all types to make it more akin to crit and mastery.