1. #221
    Quote Originally Posted by Drakkmur View Post
    It's not that. It's because they are really close. Sims put the two within 4% of each other assuming you execute both rotations properly. If you mess up DoC's rotation (which is possible since it is more difficult) the two are probably more like 2% of each other in actual raids. When you are talking about 80k dps, 2% works out to only 1.6k dps which is barely noticeable.

    Something else to consider, try NV. It is within about 3% of DoC on sims and probably more like 1.5% in practise, doesn't doesn't complicate the rotation any, and provides a substantial amount of passive raid healing (often at periods when you need it most) which helps your healers a lot in progression. I am doing 10-15k heals per second most of our raids without having to change my dps rotation at all and I still have gotten top 10 world parses with that talent set up.
    I agree that NV is the best option atm. DOC just doesn't feel right and I don't like the rotation, although I do end up weaving in HTs when NV is up for about an extra 200k damage for the 30 seconds its up and like you said the extra healing is a very nice bonus. It's amazing how much HPS you can pump out in 30 seconds with NV going, plus the burst is insane I can burst well over 200k DPS with NV/Berserk/troll racial/TF going.

  2. #222
    Quote Originally Posted by nevakee716 View Post
    I think it's even closer, because it's 3% for a 6 min fight, if the fight last 4-5 min, NV take more place, and the dps is better. IF you add the war banner, it's even better.

    Anyway, having a burst cd is always better.
    SimulationCraft does not default to a 6 minute fight. Average fight length is 7.5 minutes by default with a 20% vary (6 to 9 minutes), which NV being a 3 minute CD means that the fight duration has no bias against it.
    Last edited by aggixx; 2012-10-23 at 01:29 AM.

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  3. #223
    Quote Originally Posted by aggixx View Post
    SimulationCraft is does not default to a 6 minute fight. Average fight length is 7.5 minutes by default with a 20% vary (6 to 9 minutes), which NV being a 3 minute CD means that the fight duration has no bias against it.
    ok thank for the info, do you know if we can add trick of trade, war banner and stormlash.

  4. #224
    Stormlash is active by default with 2 shamans casting it on cooldown (no overlap, of course). As far as I know, and I could very well be wrong here, there is no way to do the same with Crit Banner or Tricks. The best way to go about doing it is create another player in the sim that is there solely to provide buffs for you, like so:

    Code:
    armory=us,hyjal,pawkets
    
    warrior=banner1
    level=90
    race=orc
    role=attack
    spec=arms
    actions=skull_banner,if=buff.skull_banner.down
    main_hand=shinka_execution_of_dominion,id=87176,stats=920crit_920mastery_2071sta_1380str,gems=500str,enchant=dancing_steel,weapon=axe2h_3.6speed_14525min_21788max

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  5. #225
    Thx again,

    I kill Gara'jal NM today, and i did 94584 with NV + Inc, on the simulation i'm at 85k, need to see if i can reach that with the raid dps buff, 10k seems to be a lot for skull banner + shattering throw.
    Last edited by nevakee716; 2012-10-23 at 01:49 AM.

  6. #226
    Moderator Sonnillon's Avatar
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    I have few questions as it seems I will have to use my kitty more often now (http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Keket/advanced (my guardian spec and cat share cloak and the feng's ring in sets)) and well I guess I should learn how to play it.

    When will be the best time to use HotW with Wrath spam (I have a 463 caster 2-hander)? In the start of the fight or when BL is popped? We are currently progressing on Gara'jal normal and I would like to know is it better to holf of using HotW when I need to go the spirit realm to DPS the spirits down fast or just pop just bit after the pull is made? I find it very hard to jump from target to target in spirit world and kill as many as possible. Any tips for that?

    Am I right, if I use SotF and HotW, if I would like to maintain my hit/exp. caps? I know that seeming as I will be changing talents I will have to change the reforges, so I won't reforge away from haste.

    Should I change my gemming as well, to get more agility (goes mainly for the chest)?

    Which trinkets are the best? I have a selection of Coren's Cold Chromium Coaster, Searing Words, Zen Alchemist Stone and Flashing Steel Talisman (afaik I have sold the Windswept pages)?
    Last edited by Sonnillon; 2012-10-23 at 05:22 AM.
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  7. #227
    Quote Originally Posted by Drakkmur View Post
    It's not that. It's because they are really close. Sims put the two within 4% of each other assuming you execute both rotations properly. If you mess up DoC's rotation (which is possible since it is more difficult) the two are probably more like 2% of each other in actual raids. When you are talking about 80k dps, 2% works out to only 1.6k dps which is barely noticeable.

    Something else to consider, try NV. It is within about 3% of DoC on sims and probably more like 1.5% in practise, doesn't doesn't complicate the rotation any, and provides a substantial amount of passive raid healing (often at periods when you need it most) which helps your healers a lot in progression. I am doing 10-15k heals per second most of our raids without having to change my dps rotation at all and I still have gotten top 10 world parses with that talent set up.
    I've yet to try inc/NV in a raid so ill give it a try tonight on heroic will, be an interesting fight to compare DoC with as HotW is not viable on the fight, not sure about the forging to be fair, think ill stick with my comfy hit cap :P

  8. #228
    Quote Originally Posted by Oak-qt View Post
    So im finding my dmg from Hotw and DoC to be very close but i think thats purely because i suck at keeping rip up 100% with a DoC buff.
    @Oak I'm assuming you use a heroic staff/1h-offhand caster weapon for HOTW? Isn't it not worth it to use HOTW if you have a less ilvl caster weapon than your feral weapon? Or do you just straight up use your heroic agi weapon during the active?

    Edit: Also, is there a reason you take hit cap bot not expertise soft cap? Especially with DoC? Losing a DoC charge due to a dodge or parry (Even though you don't get it to 0%, it still reduces the chance of it) can cripple your damage.
    Last edited by Makaveli9090; 2012-10-23 at 11:50 PM.

  9. #229
    My armory: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...iseau/advanced

    Hey guys. I'm trying to figure out a way to maximize my DPS for Elegon. I don't really know if I should go for HotW or stay with my current talents. Which are SotF+NV(incase armory is down). I see a lot of people typing that they do a lot of damage with Hurricane but on single target DPS fights? Am I misunderstanding or are we supposed to use that instead of Wrath? And what's a good second talent that goes well with HotW?

    Edit: Oh yeah, the spellcaster weapon I have is a 463 ilvl and it is this one Wort Stirring Rod enchanted with Windsong.
    Edit 2: What's a good target for Symbiosis? I get to choose between a warrior, paladin, shaman, hunter. I know the warrior should be a solid choice but I don't think shattering throw is worth it because of the CD.
    Last edited by Cruit; 2012-10-24 at 12:40 PM.

  10. #230
    Moderator Sonnillon's Avatar
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    Feral Spirit from Shaman IMHO is the best choice for symbiosis.
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  11. #231
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonnillon View Post
    Feral Spirit from Shaman IMHO is the best choice for symbiosis.
    Wrong, Shattering is the best, especially in a 25 man environment. Use in the beginning of the fight and at the end of the fight (Usually sub 20%), and ONLY line it up with berserk. Otherwise you'll be energy starved and won't get anything useful for yourself out of it.

  12. #232
    Shouldn't OoC proc work on symbiosis abilities? e.g. shatter

    tooltip states "or offensive feral ability by 100%".

  13. #233
    Shattering Blow isn't a feral ability.

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  14. #234
    Quote Originally Posted by aggixx View Post
    Shattering Blow isn't a feral ability.
    It's a Cat version of Shattering blow resulting in a cat offensive ability.

    Regardless would it be to strong if it could?

  15. #235
    i've mostly been putting it on hunters for play dead :>

    But with the rebuff to what tanks get it will be going back on our warrior tank.

  16. #236
    so using NV and SOTF atm , and really enjoying the raids again , fun rotation , and for oonce as a feral dont feel starved for energy all the time comp[ared to rogue. is symbiosis on warr that much better than wolves, does the armour debuff stack with FF??


    Beacuse kitty's go Meaw

  17. #237
    Right now they seems equal but Synapse Springs is really interesting.
    It might have been mentioned a few times or even emphasized on, but Synapse Springs is just so good that I want to once again suggest it to all fellow cats. If you have the gold simply go for it. I dropped JC for Engineering a few days ago and I'll never look back. Bleed damage empowered with that extra agility is just great.

    Also worth a mention > Nitro Boosts. The days of tanks swiftly running away with the boss thus making you lose that 2-3 seconds remaining Rip are over. And the boosts blowing up and sending you in the air is not even an issue since you can just charge it.

  18. #238
    The Patient Casseille's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brokensavior View Post
    is symbiosis on warr that much better than wolves, does the armour debuff stack with FF??
    It does stack yes. It doesn't stack with a warrior's Shattering Blow, but that doesn't matter cause you can chain them. You use yours, then 10 sec later the warrior uses his. (And then another warrior/druid if you have them).

  19. #239
    Quote Originally Posted by Amitty View Post
    It might have been mentioned a few times or even emphasized on, but Synapse Springs is just so good that I want to once again suggest it to all fellow cats. If you have the gold simply go for it. I dropped JC for Engineering a few days ago and I'll never look back. Bleed damage empowered with that extra agility is just great.

    Also worth a mention > Nitro Boosts. The days of tanks swiftly running away with the boss thus making you lose that 2-3 seconds remaining Rip are over. And the boosts blowing up and sending you in the air is not even an issue since you can just charge it.
    got some spare time in your rotation for the belt frag? i had it crit an add on elagon yesterday for 120k

  20. #240
    How much did you use on powerleveling engineering? Seeing as it's definitely not the same on every server but just want to have a price range in mind.

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