1. #341
    Quote Originally Posted by dennisdkramer View Post
    It is definitely a QoL improvement, however for those of us currently comfortable with the rotation it is not a very large DPS increase in comparison to the bonuses of other DPS classes.
    Yeah, we got kind of screwed on it, but a dps increase is a dps increase. Also, I cant help but stare at your avatar.

  2. #342
    So I just got the tier shoulders from LFR but I already have the normal shoulders from Gara'jal. Should I replace them with the LFR ones so I atleast get the 2p?

    My armory: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...iseau/advanced

  3. #343
    Stood in the Fire Paloro's Avatar
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    The 4p at first seemed very lack luster to me, but now that I am really thinking about it, it seems to have a bit more value.

    Follow this:
    Rip lasts 16 seconds, but is always extended to 22 seconds.
    With the 4p, you now get it up to 26 seconds.

    Now TF has a 30 second cd, but lasts 6 seconds. If timed properly, you should now be able to maintain ~100% buffed Rip/Rake uptime.

  4. #344
    Quote Originally Posted by Paloro View Post
    With the 4p, you now get it up to 26 seconds.

    Now TF has a 30 second cd, but lasts 6 seconds. If timed properly, you should now be able to maintain ~100% buffed Rip/Rake uptime.
    No, that doesn't work at all. If you try to do that you will lose DPS because your maximum theoretical uptime is 86.66%. Not only that but I have I no idea how you think rake comes into play with that statement.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cruit View Post
    So I just got the tier shoulders from LFR but I already have the normal shoulders from Gara'jal. Should I replace them with the LFR ones so I atleast get the 2p?

    My armory: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...iseau/advanced
    Yes, you should. If you're doing a heavy AoE fight it might be better to go without the 2p, but otherwise in your gear it should be something like a 600 DPS gain where as the itemization downgrade would be something like a 400 DPS loss.

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  5. #345
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    Quote Originally Posted by aggixx View Post
    No, that doesn't work at all. If you try to do that you will lose DPS because your maximum theoretical uptime is 86.66%. Not only that but I have I no idea how you think rake comes into play with that statement.
    I'm all for theorycrafting and have read all those articles, but in practice (at least for me), I find going for a higher uptime with my bleeds provides a much more consistent/controllable output. My rankings speak for themselves on that matter.

  6. #346
    I have no idea what you're trying to say. You can't have high uptime on your bleeds if you're trying to keep a TFed Rip rolling at all times because it does not work mathematically. Just because you can put up a rip at the end of a TF and have it still be up at the start of your next TF does not mean that you can achieve 100% buffed uptime.

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  7. #347
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    Quote Originally Posted by aggixx View Post
    I have no idea what you're trying to say. You can't have high uptime on your bleeds if you're trying to keep a TFed Rip rolling at all times because it does not work mathematically. Just because you can put up a rip at the end of a TF and have it still be up at the start of your next TF does not mean that you can achieve 100% buffed uptime.
    It won't be 100% obviously because 26 =\= 30, but you will be able to get 2 back to back now. So having the 4 piece skews the argument of replacing the non buffed rip with a ferocious bite.

    I think we have misunderstood each other a bit since I was referring to DoC buffed Rip/rake.

  8. #348
    Quote Originally Posted by Paloro View Post
    My rankings speak for themselves on that matter.
    Lold when u dont have any good ranks on heroic bosses.

    Infracted. Keep it civil, please, and please make sure you are going to contribute to the conversation if you reply.
    Last edited by Sunfyre; 2012-11-22 at 04:07 AM.

  9. #349
    Even if you're talking about using the energy from TF to cause a PS proc that would allow you to roll rip, you'd still run into the exact same issue. By trying to apply your rip at a fixed point in your rotation you would do nothing but hurt your uptime.

    Even if you could sustain that for a minute or so if it's not consistent it wouldn't be a meaningful enough asset to the set bonus' value to matter.
    Last edited by aggixx; 2012-11-22 at 05:06 AM.

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  10. #350
    Anyone tested if the FB refreshing Rip still only refresh without taking in consideration the buffs up at that time? or they fix that so it snapshot the buffs also? I was wondering and didn't have time to test lately, if you have any info plz share.

    Hope they dont fix it ^^
    Last edited by Gorelaz; 2012-11-22 at 05:39 AM.
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  11. #351
    That disappointing moment when you use a coin on Tsulong for the weapon, and get the gloves... When you already have tier.

  12. #352
    Quote Originally Posted by Conatzer View Post
    That disappointing moment when you use a coin on Tsulong for the weapon, and get the gloves... When you already have tier.
    I think I haven't won a single item this content through a bonus roll :-(

  13. #353
    Yeah, I got my legendary gem tonight, so I was looking forward to that, but nope. Blizzard decided to hate me.

  14. #354
    Quote Originally Posted by Conatzer View Post
    That disappointing moment when you use a coin on Tsulong for the weapon, and get the gloves... When you already have tier.
    I got three pole arms from sprit kings in the first 3 kills using coins, so ill never get the Tsulong one now :P

  15. #355
    Quote Originally Posted by Oak-qt View Post
    I got three pole arms from sprit kings in the first 3 kills using coins, so ill never get the Tsulong one now :P
    My progression hasnt been the greatest, because weve had to replace 3 people, so for a couple weeks, things were just kind of shit.

  16. #356
    Quote Originally Posted by aggixx View Post
    Even if you're talking about using the energy from TF to cause a PS proc that would allow you to roll rip, you'd still run into the exact same issue. By trying to apply your rip at a fixed point in your rotation you would do nothing but hurt your uptime.

    Even if you could sustain that for a minute or so if it's not consistent it wouldn't be a meaningful enough asset to the set bonus' value to matter.
    I believe - correct me if I'm wrong - that he's not trying to say that you're going to get higher rip uptime, but that your rips are going to be more often affected by tiger's fury. We're mostly seeing ~90% uptime as optimal right now, so with the bonus either we can increase its uptime, or increase the amount of time its buffed by TF. I don't know which is better really, nor do I care because as always I'm just going to play whichever way feels right.. but I'm sure someone will do the math eventually.

  17. #357
    I don't think it's something you can easily do math on. Fixed rotations will always be incredibly dangerous because they don't account for a lot of factors and rotation design is very very far from intuitive.

    Also, if you make an assumption that you're using TF exactly every 30 seconds and that you have 100% rip uptime with 0 clipping, the duration of the rip is irrelevant to what percentage of the time it will be buffed by TF unless it is exactly 30 seconds.
    A 26 second rip will be able to be applied during TF twice as many times in a row (compared to a 22 second rip) before it has to be refreshed before you can use TF, but subsequently it will also take twice as long to resync with TF because the gap in seconds between a 26 second Rip and TF's CD and a 22 second Rip and TF's CD is twice as large.
    Last edited by aggixx; 2012-11-22 at 08:51 PM.

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  18. #358
    Quote Originally Posted by aggixx View Post
    I don't think it's something you can easily do math on. Fixed rotations will always be incredibly dangerous because they don't account for a lot of factors and rotation design is very very far from intuitive.

    Also, if you make an assumption that you're using TF exactly every 30 seconds and that you have 100% rip uptime with 0 clipping, the duration of the rip is irrelevant to what percentage of the time it will be buffed by TF unless it is exactly 30 seconds.
    A 26 second rip will be able to be applied during TF twice as many times in a row (compared to a 22 second rip) before it has to be refreshed before you can use TF, but subsequently it will also take twice as long to resync with TF because the gap in seconds between a 26 second Rip and TF's CD and a 22 second Rip and TF's CD is twice as large.
    But we don't have 100% rip uptime, thats the point. What we're saying is currently, if you want 100% TF on rip, you have to leave rip down for 8/30 seconds, which is simply too much. With the bonus, you'll only have to leave rip down for 4/30 seconds, which is not far off from the optimal downtime we're already seeing.

    So as you say its 100%rip & desynced TF VS 86%rip and synced TF

    If I had to guess I'd say they probably perform pretty similarly

  19. #359
    But the 86% uptime is the absolute maximum you can achieve. The reason why we don't have near 100% rip uptime in BiS gear is because it's advantageous to Ferocious Bite very aggressively so no combo points are ever wasted, and you'd have the exact same issue with trying to run a synced TF rotation, which means I doubt you'd be able to pass 80% uptime.

    Realistically I think you'd be looking at something like 80%ish TF'ed uptime vs 92%ish random uptime which seems like not such an enticing option. You also have to consider that if you're spending your combo points on Rip during TF every time that would also mean that you average FB damage would go down.
    Last edited by aggixx; 2012-11-23 at 01:06 AM.

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  20. #360

    Those are simcraft results showing the difference in uptime on rip with my gear (with 4 piece) and yours (without 4 piece) Aggixx, as you can see, theres about ~4% difference in them.

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