1. #2041
    It considered weak because Catus/Simcraft god told us.
    Seriously and Realistically TED > AOC only if you:
    1. Can wait proc at 4/5 combo as much as possible.
    2. Cant utilize TF/BERSERK per cooldown, yes without these 1-2+ second losses.

  2. #2042
    Question of the day number 2: Do many of you rank highly using HOTW? my guild is currently progressing so i pretty much use HOTW everywhere since the tranq really can save a raid but i dont want it to gimp me to much. Hoping it is possible to rank pretty high with hotw and not just DOC. Cheers lads.

  3. #2043
    Quote Originally Posted by Tachyne View Post
    Question of the day number 2: Do many of you rank highly using HOTW? my guild is currently progressing so i pretty much use HOTW everywhere since the tranq really can save a raid but i dont want it to gimp me to much. Hoping it is possible to rank pretty high with hotw and not just DOC. Cheers lads.
    Here are some data Raffy parsed from WoL. They are a bit old but should give some insight.

    10 man:
    https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...oCPopTop50.png

    25 man:
    https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...oCPopTop50.png

  4. #2044
    HoTW is better for 10-man than for 25-man.
    Also considering your 558ilvl - you are not going to rank.
    Last edited by mmokri; 2013-12-03 at 05:42 PM.

  5. #2045
    Quote Originally Posted by Tachyne View Post
    Question of the day number 2: Do many of you rank highly using HOTW? my guild is currently progressing so i pretty much use HOTW everywhere since the tranq really can save a raid but i dont want it to gimp me to much. Hoping it is possible to rank pretty high with hotw and not just DOC. Cheers lads.
    Your not going to rank while undergeared and you shouldn't be trying to rank on progression.

  6. #2046
    Also this video: video.
    Feral stays and looks at banishment allies. Saddest part of feral druid.

  7. #2047
    Quote Originally Posted by Tachyne View Post
    Question of the day number 2: Do many of you rank highly using HOTW? my guild is currently progressing so i pretty much use HOTW everywhere since the tranq really can save a raid but i dont want it to gimp me to much. Hoping it is possible to rank pretty high with hotw and not just DOC. Cheers lads.
    Yes you can rank on every fight as HotW, some moreso than others. There are a couple where you're at little to no disadvantage but for the most part it's going to be extraordinarily difficult to get top 5 ranks or better.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Glurp View Post
    Your not going to rank while undergeared
    Not true at all. I'm sure it's possible to rank quite well on heroic bosses with like 565 gear, if not even lower. There really isn't a ton of very skilled ferals out there and while gear does make a big difference skill makes a big difference too.

    PS: Of course depends on your definition of "undergeared"
    Last edited by aggixx; 2013-12-03 at 07:17 PM.

    Feral Druid Maintainer of SimC // Moderator at Fluid Druid forums
    Pawkets' Armory
    // Pawkets' Pro Raiders // <Forgotten Aspects>

  8. #2048
    Quote Originally Posted by Glurp View Post
    Your not going to rank while undergeared and you shouldn't be trying to rank on progression.
    I dunno. I got world first 10 man thok among all classes with 568 ilvl and no 4 set bonus. Some RNG luck with trinkets and good play can make up for a few ilvls. Regarding ranking on progression then of course you shouldn't be scumbagging but after all we are taken for our dps so there's no real conflict between ranking and progression.

  9. #2049
    ...deleted...
    Last edited by mmokri; 2013-12-04 at 01:44 PM.

  10. #2050
    Here's a revised Top 100 Ranking for 10H for DoC vs HotW:
    https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...CPopTop100.png

    As you can see, DoC takes more of the rankings but HotW still is extremely viable (it's just people aren't playing it.)
    I suspect 25H will probably be even more biased towards DoC, due to better raid composition and less dependence on Tranq.

    These plots would be much cooler if I could organize them by item level, or at least by date (age.)

  11. #2051
    Quote Originally Posted by raffy View Post
    Here's a revised Top 100 Ranking for 10H for DoC vs HotW:
    https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...CPopTop100.png

    As you can see, DoC takes more of the rankings but HotW still is extremely viable (it's just people aren't playing it.)
    I suspect 25H will probably be even more biased towards DoC, due to better raid composition and less dependence on Tranq.

    These plots would be much cooler if I could organize them by item level, or at least by date (age.)
    Not that it matters much, but all of my ranks are stated as DoC and I play strictly HotW. (Rip)

  12. #2052
    Oh poop, I'll check when I get home: possibly that table is SotF vs FoN by mistake. I started downloading the WoL data when I left for work today so unable to fix it right now. I believe I check for multiple DoC charges.

  13. #2053
    Quote Originally Posted by inferior2 View Post
    I dunno. I got world first 10 man thok among all classes with 568 ilvl and no 4 set bonus. Some RNG luck with trinkets and good play can make up for a few ilvls. Regarding ranking on progression then of course you shouldn't be scumbagging but after all we are taken for our dps so there's no real conflict between ranking and progression.
    Admittedly you got incredibly, incredibly luck on that pull, but it definitely proves that you can rank without a lot of gear. Your tactic is absolutely perfect for melee dps too. I'd like to know how you've managed to not have the 4 piece by now though!

    Also: so frustrating to be a reliable raid member that can handle mechanics. I did 400 frigging thousand dps on Malkorok today and that was with soaking orbs for 25 sec during p2, HOTW tranquing, and soaking every single melee zone. No DoC and good execute rip either. I can't rank properly like that.

    EDIT:
    Quote Originally Posted by The Cat View Post
    Not that it matters much, but all of my ranks are stated as DoC and I play strictly HotW. (Rip)
    Yeah what is up with me ranking on Galakras with DoC? I'd never do that. What is the name of your feral btw?

    Also that Rynekz has got some insanely impressive ranks. Is that someone from this forum or fluiddruid? Because I must admit the name doesn't really ring a bell, even though most ranking ferals are frequent visitors.
    Last edited by Karlzone; 2013-12-04 at 10:56 PM.

  14. #2054
    I just got crazy dps idea: t13x2 + crazy procs for mega rip.

    edit
    Last edited by mmokri; 2013-12-04 at 11:43 PM.

  15. #2055
    Quote Originally Posted by Karlzone View Post
    Admittedly you got incredibly, incredibly luck on that pull, but it definitely proves that you can rank without a lot of gear. Your tactic is absolutely perfect for melee dps too. I'd like to know how you've managed to not have the 4 piece by now though!
    I valued having two heroic pieces more than the 4P set bonus but after doing a clear to blackfuse today I am starting to rethink. Even though in simulations the 4P is not big improvement (mostly get used for more FB) but in real raids where you move and leave the boss I guess it is a lot stronger. Got the heroic tier gloves today so will go back to 4P.

    Anyway, why would you say our tactic is good for melee? Originally we tried to kite him in a big circle around the room where he stands and after one revolution go out into the entrance way. With this I didn't even have to leave the boss during the fixate changes. With the back and forth kiting we are doing now I have to leave the boss for a significant time when he switches target and there's a lot of potential trinket procs that get wasted there. I can't really think of a tactic that is worse for melee :P This is a good melee tactic: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...Nv0jCKN6o#t=78


    Quote Originally Posted by Karlzone View Post
    Also: so frustrating to be a reliable raid member that can handle mechanics. I did 400 frigging thousand dps on Malkorok today and that was with soaking orbs for 25 sec during p2, HOTW tranquing, and soaking every single melee zone. No DoC and good execute rip either. I can't rank properly like that.
    You need to look at this :P: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SlrW0MY_n7g
    Last edited by inferior2; 2013-12-05 at 02:25 AM.

  16. #2056

  17. #2057
    Quote Originally Posted by inferior2 View Post
    Anyway, why would you say our tactic is good for melee? Originally we tried to kite him in a big circle around the room where he stands and after one revolution go out into the entrance way. With this I didn't even have to leave the boss during the fixate changes. With the back and forth kiting we are doing now I have to leave the boss for a significant time when he switches target and there's a lot of potential trinket procs that get wasted there. I can't really think of a tactic that is worse for melee :P This is a good melee tactic: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...Nv0jCKN6o#t=78

    You need to look at this :P: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SlrW0MY_n7g
    At least your kiting tactic was executed pretty perfectly compared to what my guild does. It seemed as if you had a much higher uptime on the boss than I could have ever hoped for. The tactic we use is something in between yours and the one you linked (wow some insanely good kiting for melee). I was also baiting it during green kite phase :S
    Also I love kripp

  18. #2058
    @raffy would be op to see Rune vs Non-Rune too.

  19. #2059
    Quote Originally Posted by mmokri View Post
    @raffy would be op to see Rune vs Non-Rune too.
    Wouldn't be valuable information at all, that data would be pretty much drowned in sample bias because almost all of the top-tier players have a Rune.

    Feral Druid Maintainer of SimC // Moderator at Fluid Druid forums
    Pawkets' Armory
    // Pawkets' Pro Raiders // <Forgotten Aspects>

  20. #2060

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