1. #2321
    Quote Originally Posted by Paloro View Post
    Since when is DoC random?
    You still aren't giving any good reasons why to choose HotW.
    It already is quite random if you have a Tiger's Fury ready once you have all of your trinkets proc. Having a PS proc ready at that time just increases the RNG that's required. DoC has always been random in that sense. As baver said it isn't random in itself. Combined with the rppm trinkets it is.

  2. #2322
    Stood in the Fire Paloro's Avatar
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    I think that you are confusing what random actually means. Because you can control DoC through PS procs, which is based on a specific percentage of combo points spent on a finisher, it is by definition, NOT random. Tiger's Fury has a 30 second cd. That again is NOT random! It may feel unlucky when your trinket procs, but it is only based on the proc of your trinket. Good rotational planning solves this.

    As far as HotW vs DoC for Heroic Garrosh;
    The "raid" cd of Tranquility can make you a liability since you cannot move during the channel and limits the times in which it can be used. If your raid leader wishes you to use this, that's fine, but I would rather ease the damage requirement of p3 by being able to set up a monster Rip. Most guilds struggle on this part of the fight as it is the only real damage check. Why not make it easier?

  3. #2323
    I agree with paloro, it's even waste to cast tranqulity coz add will land at you and can get you killed, so you dead and tranqulity fails, there is no point taking hotw at all, only to heal urself with healing touch or you uncomfortable with rotation and maybe hurricane on adds at start
    Last edited by Zstr; 2014-02-19 at 03:59 PM.

  4. #2324
    If there only was a spell that made you imun to damage somehow!

  5. #2325
    Quote Originally Posted by Paloro View Post
    I think that you are confusing what random actually means. Because you can control DoC through PS procs, which is based on a specific percentage of combo points spent on a finisher, it is by definition, NOT random. Tiger's Fury has a 30 second cd. That again is NOT random! It may feel unlucky when your trinket procs, but it is only based on the proc of your trinket. Good rotational planning solves this.
    Wrong. Good rotational planning does not solve the RNG that trinket procs bring to your rotation. In order for you to get the best possible rip you need to be lucky enough for your trinkets to proc when your Tiger's Fury is off cooldown or will be soon. Now when you are running with DoC the trinkets have to proc when you also have a PS proc (or a DoC charge and enough combo points).

    Maximum theoretical damage is higher with DoC, but also requires way better RNG to reach. The reason we run with DoC is because it's average damage (and also average execute damage) is higher.

  6. #2326
    Stood in the Fire Paloro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karlzone View Post
    Wrong. Good rotational planning does not solve the RNG that trinket procs bring to your rotation. In order for you to get the best possible rip you need to be lucky enough for your trinkets to proc when your Tiger's Fury is off cooldown or will be soon. Now when you are running with DoC the trinkets have to proc when you also have a PS proc (or a DoC charge and enough combo points).

    Maximum theoretical damage is higher with DoC, but also requires way better RNG to reach. The reason we run with DoC is because it's average damage (and also average execute damage) is higher.
    Trinket RNG and TF timing are not unique to DoC. If you plan ahead (i.e. hold onto your TF when the boss is nearing BitW) you can get 5 combo points in as little as 3 gcds.

    Can you provide me/us with some numbers confirming the RNG involved with DoC (not trinkets)?

  7. #2327
    Tbh it comes down to who gets the best procs right in time to be refreshed for the multiple executes.
    And the only RNG in DoC is your skill, no good feral that is paying attention and just doing single target will ever miss dealing with a proc and DoC.

  8. #2328
    Stood in the Fire Paloro's Avatar
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    Can we please stop throwing around the term "RNG"? Skill is not random.

  9. #2329
    Meant it as a joke, obviously.

  10. #2330
    Quote Originally Posted by baver View Post
    Well, some times you might have 1sec left on TF + some trinket and then ror procc, then you dont have time to get doc buff up etc. doc might not random itself, but with rppm trinkets it just add to the randomness imo. And why i choose hotw is because i like to have a good raid cd and not just be there for dps
    I'm the opposite - I like just being there for the dps

  11. #2331
    Quote Originally Posted by Paloro View Post
    Trinket RNG and TF timing are not unique to DoC. If you plan ahead (i.e. hold onto your TF when the boss is nearing BitW) you can get 5 combo points in as little as 3 gcds.

    Can you provide me/us with some numbers confirming the RNG involved with DoC (not trinkets)?
    I don't know why this conversation has become so hostile. Stop that.
    There is no RNG involved with DoC itself.
    Using DoC does however add yet another requirement for your perfect rip. Even an incredible player cannot predict when his RPPM trinkets will proc and have a PS proc ready for it. Rune also reduces your crit/haste which means that you cannot always a DoC'ed rip with trinkets up when they proc at unfortunate moments. This is what I mean with the extra RNG involved with DoC.
    All this being said I would probably have used DoC on 10 man HC Garrosh too. We've just now switched to 25 man which means that I'll be using DoC for a lot of other fights also.
    Last edited by Karlzone; 2014-02-19 at 10:41 PM.

  12. #2332
    HotW has more uses during Garrosh than tranq, blanketting the raid with free rejuvs in catform during whirling when you cannot attack the boss is very nice, and it makes healers (or healer) happy.

    I suppose you could even equip an INT weapon and spam wrath during whirling in addition to rejuvs.

    Edit: Or is it that HotW only allows bears to cast rejuv while shifted?
    Last edited by Treeroy Jenkins; 2014-02-19 at 10:54 PM.

  13. #2333
    Feb 19year of our Lord Jesus Christ 2014.
    Who doesn't attack the boss during whirl these days?

  14. #2334
    My reasoned but nonrigorous view on the matter:

    Dream of Cenarius is more luck-reliant because it adds more constraints on when it's optimal to refresh rip. That is to say, it makes you more dependent on when your trinkets proc. This difference won't show up in simulations because the simulation priority lists (last I checked) play non-DoC the same way they play DoC.

    That said, luck reliance for an individual player is typically not a noticeable thing from an overall raid DPS perspective, since you're summing over so many different players.

  15. #2335
    Quote Originally Posted by Aseyhe View Post
    That said, luck reliance for an individual player is typically not a noticeable thing from an overall raid DPS perspective, since you're summing over so many different players.
    Hence why almost all theorycrafting is done exclusively based on average DPS (or median DPS, in some cases).

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  16. #2336
    Question of the day. Im currently using the 4p bonus but if i drop down to the 2p bonus i can put another 2 peices of HC WF gear on that sitting in my bank, would you say this is worth it?

    edit: did a quick compare on catus and the profile with only 2p bonus and more hc wf pieces won with about 4k difference, over the p;rofile with 4p bonus. Does catus take teir bonus's into consideration?.
    Last edited by Bawlux; 2014-03-01 at 02:52 PM.

  17. #2337
    Quote Originally Posted by Tachyne View Post
    Question of the day. Im currently using the 4p bonus but if i drop down to the 2p bonus i can put another 2 peices of HC WF gear on that sitting in my bank, would you say this is worth it?

    edit: did a quick compare on catus and the profile with only 2p bonus and more hc wf pieces won with about 4k difference, over the p;rofile with 4p bonus. Does catus take teir bonus's into consideration?.
    Set4 is a life saver when it comes to clutch trinket snapshotting, so that's that.
    And yes it does.

  18. #2338
    4k is 4k, take the WF pieces in this case. If it was a smaller difference maybe you could make a case for 4p.

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  19. #2339
    4p has too many quality of life implications that allow for closer to optimal execution.

  20. #2340
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    Quote Originally Posted by axxey View Post
    4p has too many quality of life implications that allow for closer to optimal execution.
    word brother!! 4pc for life <3

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