1. #2341
    About RNG-EXECUTE phase. Proper AOE is more important for maximum DPS than proper execute phase.

  2. #2342
    High Overlord Canaslan's Avatar
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    Hi guys, which talents do you use on Paragons 25H, or, which talents did you use when you first started progressing on them? I'm thinking Nature's Vigil coupled with CD's might provide a lot of burst damage (Skeer and Xaril). Or should I just go with HotW on a progression fight (I use DoC by default).

    We're using the same tactic as Evrelia's.

  3. #2343
    Quote Originally Posted by Canaslan View Post
    Hi guys, which talents do you use on Paragons 25H, or, which talents did you use when you first started progressing on them? I'm thinking Nature's Vigil coupled with CD's might provide a lot of burst damage (Skeer and Xaril). Or should I just go with HotW on a progression fight (I use DoC by default).

    We're using the same tactic as Evrelia's.
    I'd use HotW if you are going to be putting your tranq in a cooldown rotation. If not then I definitely might consider NV. Not only because it provides a tad more burst (very little tbh), but because it heals so often and for so much. Paragons is a fight where people rarely are being one shot (besides Aim), which makes NV healing so good. Multishot plus something else perhaps. These abilities don't hit at once, but hit quickly enough for non-smart heals to be quite ineffective if someone screws up or is hit by bad RNG. I'm not sure how the healing on that fight is on 25 man though, so it's something you'll have to judge.

    I know that I used Nature's Vigil on Blackfuse 10 HC even after the belt nerf made those easy. I did this because the phase during the 4th belt was so vicious. I'd wager that Nature's Vigil saved someone every second try on that phase.

  4. #2344
    Quote Originally Posted by Canaslan View Post
    Hi guys, which talents do you use on Paragons 25H, or, which talents did you use when you first started progressing on them? I'm thinking Nature's Vigil coupled with CD's might provide a lot of burst damage (Skeer and Xaril). Or should I just go with HotW on a progression fight (I use DoC by default).

    We're using the same tactic as Evrelia's.
    NV only if you get scorpion!, otherwise don't bother it's a huge waste of dps, and healing of it alone is suck
    else DoC
    HoTW, if your rotation struggle, and you need tranqulity
    Last edited by Zstr; 2014-03-03 at 02:49 PM.

  5. #2345
    Quote Originally Posted by Zstr View Post
    NV only if you get scorpion!, otherwise don't bother it's a huge waste of dps, and healing of it alone is suck
    else DoC
    HoTW, if your rotation struggle, and you need tranqulity
    This is pretty much what I was going to type.

    Feral Druid Maintainer of SimC // Moderator at Fluid Druid forums
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  6. #2346
    Quote Originally Posted by Zstr View Post
    NV only if you get scorpion!, otherwise don't bother it's a huge waste of dps, and healing of it alone is suck
    else DoC
    HoTW, if your rotation struggle, and you need tranqulity
    Why would you say that NV's healing sucks? It's pretty much the most effective and fast healing in the game barring absorbs. Also it can be active for a third of the fight (although it won't be very helpful when there is a lack of burst damage inc).
    If your raid is having no issues with the berserk timer, reducing those quick and seemingly random deaths can be the way to secure a kill. You shouldn't be so quick to ignore a whole talent option, only because it reduces your personal output marginally.
    Last edited by Karlzone; 2014-03-03 at 03:41 PM.

  7. #2347
    Because this:
    Quote Originally Posted by Karlzone View Post
    (although it won't be very helpful when there is a lack of burst damage inc)
    It's rare for a high healing phase to consistently line up with a cooldown burst phase and this fight isn't an exception. Unless you're doing Scorpion (in which case definitely take NV, no question) then you're probably only going have 1 well-timed NV during the Xaril burn, and maybe a 2nd to help a little at keeping the tanks up at the end, if you count that.

    If you're concerned with keeping your raid alive you're probably better of taking Tranq instead, the DPS checks aren't that bad to require you to take a increase in burst at a net loss in DPS anyway.

    I wouldn't say that it's a bad choice necessarily, but I wouldn't consider it better than the other two.
    Last edited by aggixx; 2014-03-03 at 04:08 PM.

    Feral Druid Maintainer of SimC // Moderator at Fluid Druid forums
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  8. #2348
    Quote Originally Posted by aggixx View Post
    It's rare for a high healing phase to consistently line up with a cooldown burst phase and this fight isn't an exception. Unless you're doing Scorpion (in which case definitely take NV, no question) then you're probably only going have 1 well-timed NV during the Xaril burn, and maybe a 2nd to help a little at keeping the tanks up at the end, if you count that.

    If you're concerned with keeping your raid alive you're probably better of taking Tranq instead, the DPS checks aren't that bad to require you to take a increase in burst at a net loss in DPS anyway.

    I wouldn't say that it's a bad choice necessarily, but I wouldn't consider it better than the other two.
    I didn't think anyone but a tank would pick up the scorpion nowadays since the damage output is sick (and yay for NV even as a tank with it).

    Anyways, if the DPS checks aren't bad, then lowering one's DPS to add survival to the raid shouldn't be a bad thing. I've found myself doing it quite often on later heroic fights: making a DPS sacrifice in order to achieve a goal that overall makes the encounter easier or ensure completion. Yes, I'm normally a tank, but currently the concept still applies since everyone expects tanks to play like DPSers for now. I'll sit on CDs to ensure they line up with the times I want to use them, whether they're offensive or defensive CD's, since execution is generally the deciding factor of later heroic bosses versus overall damage.

    With respect to Paragons... yeah, the AoE damage was nerfed quite a bit, but depending upon comp and skill of the healers it may be necessary or useful to have NV compensate as Feral. Ideally it would never be needed or, dare I say, useful, but I've never seen things ever go exactly according to plan or progress the same way amongst different raid groups. As long as potentially lower DPS can be tolerated (unless you're wiping to Berserk with everyone alive, it's probably not a DPS issue), no reason not to give it a shot and test the healing benefits of NV.
    *Since I'm tired of reposting the link:* EH vs TTL and Hybrid Tax

  9. #2349
    Quote Originally Posted by aggixx View Post
    Because this:

    It's rare for a high healing phase to consistently line up with a cooldown burst phase and this fight isn't an exception. Unless you're doing Scorpion (in which case definitely take NV, no question) then you're probably only going have 1 well-timed NV during the Xaril burn, and maybe a 2nd to help a little at keeping the tanks up at the end, if you count that.

    If you're concerned with keeping your raid alive you're probably better of taking Tranq instead, the DPS checks aren't that bad to require you to take a increase in burst at a net loss in DPS anyway.

    I wouldn't say that it's a bad choice necessarily, but I wouldn't consider it better than the other two.
    You are correct. The reason I brought it up was mostly because of how useful I found it on Blackfuse. It lined up very well with the one phase that needed quick smart healing, that would make or break the fight. If that same thing occurs on paragons I would consider taking it.
    The paragons do get an 8% damage increase (which makes the chances of someone dying to spike damage skyrocket) every 30 seconds, which does mean that sacrificing too much dps for survivability might just count against you.

  10. #2350
    Sometimes when it looks like you're dodging the rapid fire you still get hit. I don't know if it has to do with latency or what, but we could have like 10 tries without anyone getting hit and then suddenly 8 people died from it at the same time. So with that in mind I prefer the blink talent on this fight. Just make sure you're not standing on the 2-step stairs or the blink will probably bug out.

    If you're lacking in ranged slows for some reason in the start pick Faerie Swarm for slowing one of the bloods. Mighty Bash is good for emergency stuns on the bloods but also on the parasites.

    I don't know what you guys think about SotF vs FoN on this fight. I started with FoN partly because there's a lot of down time, but mostly for the burst on Prime and Poisoned Mind, but during the first kill I'm pretty sure I had switched to SotF since the we didn't have any problems with those two DPS checks.

    Lastly, if your nemesis gets mesmerized and starts walking to a kunchong you get over there and Stampeding Roar. Then you laugh. Then you wipe.

  11. #2351
    Quote Originally Posted by Karlzone View Post
    You are correct. The reason I brought it up was mostly because of how useful I found it on Blackfuse. It lined up very well with the one phase that needed quick smart healing, that would make or break the fight. If that same thing occurs on paragons I would consider taking it.
    The paragons do get an 8% damage increase (which makes the chances of someone dying to spike damage skyrocket) every 30 seconds, which does mean that sacrificing too much dps for survivability might just count against you.
    I was talking about parogons specially and overall, check logs/sims and you will see yourself how bad is this talent still, seigecrafter belt is exclusion, but who will put best single target dpser to do belt when you could have hunters and monks do that..
    usinging it with scorpion triple output effect of healing during it last, and neglected dmg you take from it, plus you also gain biggest dps burst from all classes, ferals have most ap power I think

  12. #2352
    Just a question, Im changing from Guardian/Boomkin to Feral/Boomkin (strange I know but 576 ilvl in Boomkin-spec)

    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...glove/advanced

    And I currently run with hc AoC and 2/2 flex TeD, I won LFR RoR today when I did Lei Shen so my question is will it be worth it to regem/reforge in favor for it?
    [email protected] | 8gb RAM | Geforce GTX 660 OC | 120gb SSD
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  13. #2353
    Quote Originally Posted by Trollfaced View Post
    Just a question, Im changing from Guardian/Boomkin to Feral/Boomkin (strange I know but 576 ilvl in Boomkin-spec)

    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...glove/advanced

    And I currently run with hc AoC and 2/2 flex TeD, I won LFR RoR today when I did Lei Shen so my question is will it be worth it to regem/reforge in favor for it?
    no, it not worth

  14. #2354
    Okay short but informative answer I'll stick to the trinkets I've got and keep going for heroic ToT-clears ^^
    [email protected] | 8gb RAM | Geforce GTX 660 OC | 120gb SSD
    Druid (Main)World first 9000/9000HC 10minutes/week

  15. #2355
    while we are on the subjects of trinkets would you say using a 530 rune over a 574 TED would be a good idea? haromms 580 would be what id pair it with. ty

  16. #2356
    Quote Originally Posted by Tachyne View Post
    while we are on the subjects of trinkets would you say using a 530 rune over a 574 TED would be a good idea? haromms 580 would be what id pair it with. ty
    No.

    /10charsgolookatcatus
    Quote Originally Posted by Socialhealer View Post
    judging 25man raiding by LFR standards saying it requires no coordination, is like saying 5mans require cheese sandwiches because i like turtles.

  17. #2357
    Quote Originally Posted by Tachyne View Post
    while we are on the subjects of trinkets would you say using a 530 rune over a 574 TED would be a good idea? haromms 580 would be what id pair it with. ty
    how well do you think you could take advantage of the ted proc? outside of the start of the fight where you would expect it.

    530 rune is still pretty good, and actually sims higher that a 574 ted for me in my gear, and the proc is so much easier to take advantage of. So yeah, you can use it.

  18. #2358
    Thanks for the input guys, i legit did run catus and it did indeed show me that a 530 rune was better than 574 TED... so i just wanted to double check there wasn't something off somewhere because i cant for the life of me understand how the hell a 530 trinket can out perform a 574 one...

  19. #2359
    @Tachyne also simcraft list has RoRO optimization(while other trinkets don't).

  20. #2360
    Did you follow my Trinket Simulator guide?
    http://fluiddruid.net/forum/viewtopi...p=21545#p21545

    [530] Rune, [580] Haromm, and [574] TED for your gear (using Yellow gem option) have Haromm/TED as the leader by almost 1%.
    https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...ne-Results.png

    Edit: additionally, your armory reforge is wonky. Just reforging your current setup properly is ~4% DPS.
    Last edited by raffy; 2014-03-13 at 06:52 PM.

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