1. #2421
    @Glurp I simmed out a few things for you with catus as apposed to simc, short term you would get more dps from swapping to a mastery heavy build as apposed to the raw agi, focus in reds. Bear in mind that the lower agi could result in a decrease as far as overall damage goes, depending on how much cleave your getting, which eh, I'm a bit torn on given your log, there are quite a few areas where you spike above the other ferals, largely because you have TF for cleaving each set of adds in p1, and the Dextrous procc lining up with aoeing adds in terrace. But if it's single target and boss damage you care about, I'd recommend going for a mastery build.

    A 530 roro is definitely an upgrade considering the amount of time spent in execute, as well as increasing your burst on the pull when thrashing the first set of adds, though again bear in mind that I've only simmed for a patchwerk encounter. Would definitely be worth using anyway to get used to the playstyle in advance of getting a better one if feral interests you enough to acquire a heroic rune, imho.

    Your higher thrash uptime will partly be down to the extra energy from aoc, but you also have a fair bit of haste on your gear regardless that will also influence it. Especially as your highest feral on that fight is using treants which will have a fairly substantial impact on his thrash uptime.

    Honestly the only mistake I can see in your logs that glares at me, is that you used your second potion with time warp instead of saving it to buff your execute bleed, which given that your AoC proceed almost immediately after your pot ran out (which you have a timer for as it's icd based) will have lost you a fairly substantial chunk of execute damage.

    Would definitely be worth shredding more, though i'm not sure how the energy is like with an HCwf aoc compared to the extra haste from a roro build, definatley room to squeeze more in even if its on CC proccs and the likes, or when your capping CP and pooling for refreshes, (which again might be different when playing with AoC, as you appear mostly to be dumping CP into FB a lot more than usual, but that's kinda understandable as you don't have to deal with two rppm trinkets... Unless your missing harroms proccs and DoC rips during them, you're not missing out)

    Overall there's nothing particularly standout, and I personally wouldn't worry about your performance, It'll get better with time and practice, It sounded like it was your first time playing feral on that fight, and hey, the other feral beneath you is exceptionally close to bis, granted he didn't exactly get amazing rng, but yeh can give yourself a pat on the back for keeping up with him despite not having a rune

  2. #2422
    @Glurp : To add on the Mangle vs. Shred topic, you should track the 2P proc and Shred when it's up and you have the energy to spend (= Plenty of time on Rip/SR).
    Scrymx (Feral - Current Alt) / Scryms (Monk - Main) - The Fallen @EU-Ysondre 14/14HC
    Feral Proraiders


  3. #2423
    Quote Originally Posted by Karlzone View Post
    It's worth noting that the savagery change indicates that they won't reduce savage roar to 30% again. Weird considering their attempt to make feral much more beginner friendly.
    What makes you think it indicates that?

    Feral Druid Maintainer of SimC // Moderator at Fluid Druid forums
    Pawkets' Armory
    // Pawkets' Pro Raiders // <Forgotten Aspects>

  4. #2424
    Quote Originally Posted by aggixx View Post
    I think it should be viable and Blizzard will almost definitely try to make it so. I think the ideal case is that it would be just the tiniest bit lower than the other options on Patchwerk which would cause people to shy away from it a bit without it being measurably inferior in practice.

    To put it another way, the highest DPS player between two ferals should be the one who is most skilled, not the one who doesn't pick Savagery. In a perfect world, if I'm anything more than marginally better than someone I should be able to beat them with any talent combination (barring RNG).
    Now that's good game design, but it's also boring imo. I liked how DoC was the more difficult talent and at the same time the better by quite a margin.

  5. #2425
    Quote Originally Posted by aggixx View Post
    What makes you think it indicates that?
    I meant the change for the "passive savage roar"-talent, not Savagery sorry. Additionally increases Savage Roar damage increase to 45%. Seeing as a 15% savage roar buff would be incredibly unbalanced my guess is that they are still working with a 40% Savage Roar. It probably doesn't mean much and they have loads of time to change it, but I just thought to point it out. Lord knows they have made a lot of oversights concerning feral before.

  6. #2426
    Pandaren Monk Moosie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karlzone View Post
    I meant the change for the "passive savage roar"-talent, not Savagery sorry. Additionally increases Savage Roar damage increase to 45%. Seeing as a 15% savage roar buff would be incredibly unbalanced my guess is that they are still working with a 40% Savage Roar. It probably doesn't mean much and they have loads of time to change it, but I just thought to point it out. Lord knows they have made a lot of oversights concerning feral before.
    They could just as easily make it 30% untalented, 35% talented. Remember they haven't done balancing yet.

    On the 5% SR increase, I see why they did it. For me, if feral stays similar to how it is now, that talent would never get talented, it basically means those CP's would be spent on something else, such as bites, but the other 2 talents provide so much more. Spreading rake on thrash is just insane for AoE fights, especially with the amount we have seen in SoO, and having moonfire (while we don't know the proper scaling yet), generating combos from a distance is something which we have been in dire need for, and will help with those fights where we can't always melee it (shortening the gap between ranged and melee), which again, in SoO, we've seen a fair few of.

    The 5% increase, yeah you'll prob talent it most of the time, but it you'll probably still take Thrash spreading rake on cleave/add fights anyway, even more so if its a fight like spoils or galakras. For fights like garrosh, we use the tactic were even melee go to ranged and run together, so the tank has an easier time to pick up the adds, during that time i'm wasting energy, and having a skill like moonfire, scale with AP and generate CP's would be a god-send, also in P4 since I malice soak, been able to dps him while doing that.

    Yeah it's early, but even with the talents the way they are now, I see a use for all 3.
    Last edited by Moosie; 2014-04-23 at 12:20 PM.
    Moosie <After Hours> : Feral / Restoration

  7. #2427
    Quote Originally Posted by Moosie View Post
    They could just as easily make it 30% untalented, 35% talented. Remember they haven't done balancing yet.

    On the 5% SR increase, I see why they did it. For me, if feral stays similar to how it is now, that talent would never get talented, it basically means those CP's would be spent on something else, such as bites, but the other 2 talents provide so much more. Spreading rake on thrash is just insane for AoE fights, especially with the amount we have seen in SoO, and having moonfire (while we don't know the proper scaling yet), generating combos from a distance is something which we have been in dire need for, and will help with those fights where we can't always melee it (shortening the gap between ranged and melee), which again, in SoO, we've seen a fair few of.

    The 5% increase, yeah you'll prob talent it most of the time, but it you'll probably still take Thrash spreading rake on cleave/add fights anyway, even more so if its a fight like spoils or galakras. For fights like garrosh, we use the tactic were even melee go to ranged and run together, so the tank has an easier time to pick up the adds, during that time i'm wasting energy, and having a skill like moonfire, scale with AP and generate CP's would be a god-send, also in P4 since I malice soak, been able to dps him while doing that.

    Yeah it's early, but even with the talents the way they are now, I see a use for all 3.
    If the Inquisition glyph was of any indication, the talented passive form would surely be weaker, not stronger. But since it's a talent you have to invest in, they wouldn't make it weaker by any chance.

  8. #2428
    Quote Originally Posted by Karlzone View Post
    I meant the change for the "passive savage roar"-talent, not Savagery sorry. Additionally increases Savage Roar damage increase to 45%. Seeing as a 15% savage roar buff would be incredibly unbalanced my guess is that they are still working with a 40% Savage Roar. It probably doesn't mean much and they have loads of time to change it, but I just thought to point it out. Lord knows they have made a lot of oversights concerning feral before.
    They still are, you likely would've seen it in the alpha changes on the front page if they had. But like others have said, still plenty of time to change. The person who would authorize and/or apply a power reduction to SR probably isn't the same person who applied this change so I think it's logical that the two do not concern each other.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Juvencus View Post
    If the Inquisition glyph was of any indication, the talented passive form would surely be weaker, not stronger. But since it's a talent you have to invest in, they wouldn't make it weaker by any chance.
    It's actually not all that different from Glyph of Inquisition if you think about it. In both cases they would intend to make it slightly inferior to the alternatives, it's just the alternative for Glyph of Inquisition was lack of glyph (status quo neutral) whereas the alternative for Savagery is other talents (status quo positive), so for Savagery to meet that requirement it has to be a DPS gain (unless the other talents are not).

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Moosie View Post
    For fights like garrosh, we use the tactic were even melee go to ranged and run together, so the tank has an easier time to pick up the adds, during that time i'm wasting energy, and having a skill like moonfire, scale with AP and generate CP's would be a god-send, also in P4 since I malice soak, been able to dps him while doing that.
    Celestalon has stated the intent for Lunar Inspiration is for it to be rotational, being able to use it from ranged is just a perk. So in theory that means that they will try to balance the two against each other on single target (which I am under the impression they have not made any effort to do so far).

    Feral Druid Maintainer of SimC // Moderator at Fluid Druid forums
    Pawkets' Armory
    // Pawkets' Pro Raiders // <Forgotten Aspects>

  9. #2429
    Quote Originally Posted by aggixx View Post
    It's actually not all that different from Glyph of Inquisition if you think about it. In both cases they would intend to make it slightly inferior to the alternatives, it's just the alternative for Glyph of Inquisition was lack of glyph (status quo neutral) whereas the alternative for Savagery is other talents (status quo positive), so for Savagery to meet that requirement it has to be a DPS gain (unless the other talents are not).
    The point I was trying to make is that while they look similar and you would expect a similar treatment, glyphs are more of a choice with tradeoffs, while talents are a greater investment that usually don't have any negative impacts on the abilities.

  10. #2430
    Starting to use Catus and I'm getting a bit lost. When doing trinket pair comparisons in Catus and you select RoRo does it automatically reforge/gem you properly for it?

  11. #2431
    Quote Originally Posted by Glurp View Post
    Starting to use Catus and I'm getting a bit lost. When doing trinket pair comparisons in Catus and you select RoRo does it automatically reforge/gem you properly for it?
    if you tick smart reforge option, yes

  12. #2432
    I play the op kitty since WOTLK and still love to play the awesome spec of the class,
    it will be always my main my lovely kitty

  13. #2433
    Quote Originally Posted by Thakevenci View Post
    I play the op kitty since WOTLK and still love to play the awesome spec of the class,
    it will be always my main my lovely kitty
    Brofist [although my fist is noobish].

  14. #2434
    Really solid points here, thank you. I have a question, how big of a dps loss is the difference between spamming mangle (not during hero or berserk) over waiting for OoC procs for thras/shread.

  15. #2435
    I'm using this Weakaura for bleed strength which seems to be the same as the one most Ferals are using, but I've noticed it ignores DoC, do I maybe have an old version of it or was it never meant to work with DoC in the first place?
    Code:
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  16. #2436
    can't check it right now, but i'll look at it later, in the meantime though try these, the bleed ratios are taken directly from stenheldi's and the rest is just prettied up to look nice. ratios work fine and assume 5 CP for rip

    http://pastebin.com/u/Zanzha

  17. #2437
    Quote Originally Posted by Zanzha View Post
    can't check it right now, but i'll look at it later, in the meantime though try these, the bleed ratios are taken directly from stenheldi's and the rest is just prettied up to look nice. ratios work fine and assume 5 CP for rip

    http://pastebin.com/u/Zanzha
    Whoa, did you just call sten's WA ugly?!

  18. #2438
    not ugly, i just made it all fancy and stuff, not a fan of the ones frag uses though :3

  19. #2439
    Hi quick Question can Feral Cat harvest Water Spirit from Pandaland Herbs?
    Capitalism, Ho!

  20. #2440
    You get them on your farm atleast when you are feral, so i dont see why they would not drop from other herbs

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