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  1. #961
    The Lightbringer Elunedra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karlzone View Post
    Yes. It definitely does seem like it. My moonfire's initial hit is around half of what it used to be. My wraths (without procs or buffs that aren't MotW and HotW) were hitting for 130k in stead of the usual 180? k.
    I did not try hurricane and I hope that it still hits for ... something. It was the most awesome AoE cd one could wish.
    you should not be using moonfire as its an arcane spell and we ferals have a realy low arcane spell power (we only get our agility converted into nature spellpower), its good for insta tagging mobs tho

    as for hurriicane it also seems to hit for less but it was still a dps increase on the bats @ tortouse,
    TREE DURID IS 4 PEE

  2. #962
    Hello,

    I hope someone here can help me. Since 5.2 I´m a little bit confused about the feral cat. There are so many different statements about the stat ratings, but I can´t find a reliable source which can really explain, why the stat ratings are like ...

    After 5.2 patch I visited ToT with gear ~ 496 and 4P Bonus. At the first Boss both ferals got exploding damage in relation to the bosses we killed before the patch. The other feral and me got both on top places before our rogues (that never happened before). So i studied the patch notes but couldn´t find a explanation for this.

    Then I looked at the new items and got scared that mastery is really hard to find. So before 5.2 I thought our stat priority is Agi > hit/exp (slightly under the cap) > mastery > crit > haste. With this priority list my bleedings did teh main damage and everything seems fine. Is this priority list still right? I´ve read somethign (don´t know where) about haste and crit before mastery. And another thread said, no hit/exp any more. Well I tried a little bit and could play with all three options, but I still got 496 gear. So when I raise my gear what will the are the new priorities? Are there any caps for haste/crit/mastery which can now be reached? I remember the good old times, when we got 100% arp hard capped

    When playing the feral with HoW Mastery is farly behind crit and haste, or is there any mechanic which makes wrtah spamming benefit from mastery? But with DoC it seems to be mastery over all.

    So, the rune is far away for me at the moment, I need information for the 5.2 cat without rune. Could someone please tell me the current priorities with explanation why and maybe with a suitable scoring. Mr. Robot and co seem to have different datas.

    Thanks

    Nero
    Last edited by Nerobix; 2013-03-28 at 08:01 AM.

  3. #963
    Quote Originally Posted by Nerobix View Post
    Hello,

    I hope someone here can help me. Since 5.2 I´m a little bit confused about the feral cat. There are so many different statements about the stat ratings, but I can´t find a reliable source which can really explain, why the stat ratings are like ...

    After 5.2 patch I visited ToT with gear ~ 496 and 4P Bonus. At the first Boss both ferals got exploding damage in relation to the bosses we killed before the patch. The other feral and me got both on top places before our rogues (that never happened before). So i studied the patch notes but couldn´t find a explanation for this.

    Then I looked at the new items and got scared that mastery is really hard to find. So before 5.2 I thought our stat priority is Agi > hit/exp (slightly under the cap) > mastery > crit > haste. With this priority list my bleedings did teh main damage and everything seems fine. Is this priority list still right? I´ve read somethign (don´t know where) about haste and crit before mastery. And another thread said, no hit/exp any more. Well I tried a little bit and could play with all three options, but I still got 496 gear. So when I raise my gear what will the are the new priorities? Are there any caps for haste/crit/mastery which can now be reached? I remember the good old times, when we got 100% arp hard capped

    When playing the feral with HoW Mastery is farly behind crit and haste, or is there any mechanic which makes wrtah spamming benefit from mastery? But with DoC it seems to be mastery over all.

    So, the rune is far away for me at the moment, I need information for the 5.2 cat without rune. Could someone please tell me the current priorities with explanation why and maybe with a suitable scoring. Mr. Robot and co seem to have different datas.

    Thanks

    Nero
    the only different statement is when u get trinket from Lei shen `rune of re-organisation` then u have to adjust ur reforege for this trinket to work best for you
    but for now things are always Agilty >> hit/exp(7% cap)>mastery>crit>=haste and there no any cap u can reach now with this just, BiS list can be found on fuilddruid if u confusing what gear u want

  4. #964
    Hello.

    long time lurker of the forums finally writing something because i have a problem that i can not seem to grasp myself.

    I was lucky the other night to get the heroic trinket from jin'rokh. Even on a coin toss! first item on coin this patch!

    I had decent trinkets already. Juju and the valor trinket.

    Now to my problem! The massiv exp on the jin'rokh trinket combined with the valor trinket is really causing me a "reforge headache"
    I'm pretty sure from my simulations that jin'rokh trinket and valor trinket are best to use, IF i can use the exp and hit. But i loose a massiv chuck on mastery doing that, around 800 rating. i overcap slightly on both hit and exp with renetakis and valor trinket, but nothing huge. both around 100 above caps.

    So my question is, what would you guys do in my situation? my feral druid is fuzzah on kazzak-EU.

    and while im already asking a question why not make it 2. The rip "bug" at 25% where you could keep a highly buffed rip running the rest of the fight with FB. Does that still work here in 5.2 or does every FB take a snapshot of your current stats when used below 25%?

    oh and another thing! tier 15 2set feral finally FIXED! savage roar with glyph also pumping out ekstra combo points now!

  5. #965
    Quote Originally Posted by Fuzzyh View Post
    Hello.
    The rip "bug" at 25% where you could keep a highly buffed rip running the rest of the fight with FB. Does that still work here in 5.2 or does every FB take a snapshot of your current stats when used below 25%?
    Congrats on the trinket. Is this really a bug? I thought it is wanted by game mechanics, that we can have this burst in the finisher phase. I have never looked deeper into the logs, because I never thought about, that the FB could reset the DoC Buff from our rip.

  6. #966
    The Lightbringer Elunedra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nerobix View Post
    Congrats on the trinket. Is this really a bug? I thought it is wanted by game mechanics, that we can have this burst in the finisher phase. I have never looked deeper into the logs, because I never thought about, that the FB could reset the DoC Buff from our rip.
    i though it was fixed long ago
    TREE DURID IS 4 PEE

  7. #967
    Stood in the Fire Paloro's Avatar
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    Blood in the Water was an attempt by Blizzard to give ferals an "execute". By refreshing Rip with FB below 25% hp, you will not snapshot your current stats.

    So if you can across a situation sub 25% where your Rip would be stronger, feel free to refresh it by using the actually ability and not FB.

  8. #968
    Quote Originally Posted by Paloro View Post
    Blood in the Water was an attempt by Blizzard to give ferals an "execute". By refreshing Rip with FB below 25% hp, you will not snapshot your current stats.

    So if you can across a situation sub 25% where your Rip would be stronger, feel free to refresh it by using the actually ability and not FB.
    I just remember reading somewhere that they changed it, so i was unsure if it was stupid to save my pot for the 25% mark for higher rips.

    how are you all with the new trinkets and RPPM ? For the uptime can be 10% one fight and then up to 40% the next. really insane difference in terms of dps.
    our jin'rokh kill where i got the trinket i was lucky with 37% uptime on JUJU
    worldoflogs.com/reports/7a5v4qpwgmktgtzi/?s=2240&e=2609
    compared to the almost kill before with only 13% or so...

    I must say i liked the ICD and knowing that the procs were more fixed better than this RPPM

  9. #969
    Quote Originally Posted by Paloro View Post
    Blood in the Water was an attempt by Blizzard to give ferals an "execute". By refreshing Rip with FB below 25% hp, you will not snapshot your current stats.

    So if you can across a situation sub 25% where your Rip would be stronger, feel free to refresh it by using the actually ability and not FB.
    If that is true, it would mean that I am not able to use FB < 25% when I got a rip running with DoC Buff (+25%) because it would kill it and make it a "normal" rip. So, what will happen, when I use my DoC with FB < 25%. Will the through DoC FB refreshed rip run with +25% DMG?

    It is hard to test, since the boss dummys usually have more than 25% health.

  10. #970
    So anyone can confirm or disaprove that HOTW Hurricane or Wrath damage was reduced? I didnt noticed anything.

  11. #971
    Stood in the Fire Paloro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuzzyh View Post
    I just remember reading somewhere that they changed it, so i was unsure if it was stupid to save my pot for the 25% mark for higher rips.

    how are you all with the new trinkets and RPPM ? For the uptime can be 10% one fight and then up to 40% the next. really insane difference in terms of dps.
    our jin'rokh kill where i got the trinket i was lucky with 37% uptime on JUJU
    worldoflogs.com/reports/7a5v4qpwgmktgtzi/?s=2240&e=2609
    compared to the almost kill before with only 13% or so...

    I must say i liked the ICD and knowing that the procs were more fixed better than this RPPM
    Heroic Jin'rokh gave my 25% uptime on my Heroic TF Renataki
    Heroic Tortos only gave me 16.6%

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-28 at 11:25 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Nerobix View Post
    If that is true, it would mean that I am not able to use FB < 25% when I got a rip running with DoC Buff (+25%) because it would kill it and make it a "normal" rip. So, what will happen, when I use my DoC with FB < 25%. Will the through DoC FB refreshed rip run with +25% DMG?

    It is hard to test, since the boss dummys usually have more than 25% health.
    Prior to 5.1, there was a bug that did what you described. To my knowledge, when you use FB sub 25% the Rip that was refreshed will use the stats from when you first applied that Rip (not refreshed it). This means you cannot impose a DoC buffed Rip onto a non DoC Rip sub 25% with using FB.

  12. #972
    Quote Originally Posted by Elunedra View Post
    you should not be using moonfire as its an arcane spell and we ferals have a realy low arcane spell power (we only get our agility converted into nature spellpower), its good for insta tagging mobs tho
    Hm really? That's something I have not actually heard.
    Just a quick test with MotW and HotW up shows that (in my gear on a lvl 90 non-elite): All moonfire damage ticks + the initial damage it does (no crit) equals 85k.
    An average wrath hit on that same target shows 130k.

    Moonfire "cast time" is 1 sec. Wrath cast time is 1.9 sec.
    This would mean that moonfire did for me 85k damage in one second while wrath did 68k. This tells me that moonfire is better to use, yes?

    Obviously that had NOTHING to do with proper testing, I'd just like to see a nice counterargument which tells me that moonfire is a dps loss.
    As far as I remember, moonfire did not scale at all with HotW until a few months(?) into mop.

  13. #973
    Quote Originally Posted by Fuzzyh View Post
    how are you all with the new trinkets and RPPM ? For the uptime can be 10% one fight and then up to 40% the next. really insane difference in terms of dps.
    ...
    I must say i liked the ICD and knowing that the procs were more fixed better than this RPPM
    Well, I tank 99.97% of the time, but I use a Rune or Re-Origination while tanking. I've been periodically updating my uptimes with this trinket, and the RPPM system makes uptimes all over the place. First week with the trinket, the benefit of a 522 Rune was inferior to a 496 Terror trinket with such low uptimes while tanking. Second week had much better uptimes, but generally the longer the fight, the lower the uptime on Rune procs (longer fights still favored Terror). This week is looking more like the first week with low uptime on Rune procs. All in all, I still prefer the ICD system over RPPM. I thought the RPPM was supposed to "fix" bad RNG with uptimes on trinkets with ICDs... ironically RNG is worse now. Correction: RPPM adds fun and excitement.
    *Since I'm tired of reposting the link:* EH vs TTL and Hybrid Tax

  14. #974
    (I started another thread specifically asking about help with my dps using DoC but noticed something that I should ask here where it might get more views)

    Re-looking at a few of my logs again I'm noticing that with my gear (currently ilvl 509 with 7900 mastery unbuffed) rake is right up there with shred and a good margin ahead of mangle in terms of direct damage. From looking at several other druids, my mastery seems quite a bit lower than others, so are we back to a point where rake will become the best CP generator, especially with 2pc(maybe ilvl 515+)?

    It already seems mangle is slightly better than shred for CP generation/dps once you get 2pc t15, but at what level does rake become even better? I don't have Rune yet, but it seems an argument could be made that with Rune the gap between mangle and rake is even higher, thoughts?

    Opp, forgot about the 4pc not affecting rake, maybe it's a moot point now.

  15. #975
    Quote Originally Posted by Karlzone View Post
    Obviously that had NOTHING to do with proper testing, I'd just like to see a nice counterargument which tells me that moonfire is a dps loss.
    As far as I remember, moonfire did not scale at all with HotW until a few months(?) into mop.
    Moonfire has always scaled with Heart of the Wild, it's just that manner that it scales in is... misleading.

    Heart of the Wild increases all spell damage dealt by a fixed percent (formerly I believe it was 500% for feral, but I don't recall what they nerfed it to). This means that for a spec like resto, Moonfire scales perfectly for them because all of their damage comes from their high base spellpower. Feral however, relies entirely on the Nuturing Instinct passive to get spellpower, which grants 1 nature spellpower per agility. This means that, regardless of whether Heart of the Wild is up or not, Moonfire does pathetic damage because you only have about 250 arcane spellpower.

    TL;DR: HotW does scale moonfire, it's just that crappy damage times x is still crappy damage.

    Feral Druid Maintainer of SimC // Moderator at Fluid Druid forums
    Pawkets' Armory
    // Pawkets' Pro Raiders // <Forgotten Aspects>

  16. #976
    I saw on the TFD forums that aggixx had done sims showing how mangle came out ontop of shred after you have obtained 2-piece t15 in certain situations.
    In your coding it would seem like you use shred on OoC procs and during berserk and the rest of the time you insted use mangle? How is it during heroism and do you, or anyone else, generally have any more information on this?
    Last edited by Lilleskutt; 2013-03-29 at 08:55 AM.

  17. #977
    Quote Originally Posted by Vasek View Post
    So anyone can confirm or disaprove that HOTW Hurricane or Wrath damage was reduced? I didnt noticed anything.
    Isn´t this depending on haste and crit? So when you have a lot of mastery this stat will be lost using HotW, whereas haste and crit also affect wrath and hurricane

  18. #978
    Quote Originally Posted by Lilleskutt View Post
    I saw on the TFD forums that aggixx had done sims showing how mangle came out ontop of shred after you have obtained 2-piece t15 in certain situations.
    In your coding it would seem like you use shred on OoC procs and during berserk and the rest of the time you insted use mangle? How is it during heroism and do you, or anyone else, generally have any more information on this?
    There is a third conditional that checks if the profile's energy regen is above a certain amount and that conditional is met during bloodlust.

    Feral Druid Maintainer of SimC // Moderator at Fluid Druid forums
    Pawkets' Armory
    // Pawkets' Pro Raiders // <Forgotten Aspects>

  19. #979
    Quote Originally Posted by aggixx View Post
    There is a third conditional that checks if the profile's energy regen is above a certain amount and that conditional is met during bloodlust.
    Allright, thanks alot <3

  20. #980
    Quote Originally Posted by Lilleskutt View Post
    I saw on the TFD forums that aggixx had done sims showing how mangle came out ontop of shred after you have obtained 2-piece t15 in certain situations.
    Link for this please?

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