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  1. #981
    Hey I got a question of Renataki's Soul Charm trinket. I just got it from lfr, and I've replaced my Relic of Xuen (no upgrades) with it, and I've done some dummy smashing with it. However it seems to be proccing extremely randomly, just got a few procs close to each other and then like 5 minutes with no proc at all. That made me wonder is it really worth keeping this, since Relic of Xuen has the static agility and it procs more often, with much less agility of course. Thanks in advance!

  2. #982
    The Lightbringer Elunedra's Avatar
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    taking the avarage proc count into account it is an upgrade but its a commen issie with RPPM mechenics that sometimes you get an unlucky streak or a lucky streak, making your overall dps varry a lot
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  3. #983
    Quote Originally Posted by Avutu View Post
    Hey I got a question of Renataki's Soul Charm trinket. I just got it from lfr, and I've replaced my Relic of Xuen (no upgrades) with it, and I've done some dummy smashing with it. However it seems to be proccing extremely randomly, just got a few procs close to each other and then like 5 minutes with no proc at all. That made me wonder is it really worth keeping this, since Relic of Xuen has the static agility and it procs more often, with much less agility of course. Thanks in advance!
    The first RPPM trinket i got i was going crazy the first week. got juju on counsil first week and used it on tortos. i was amazed by the 35% uptime, wow this rppm stuff is amazing! next fight vs mageara (spelling?) i got first try on it an uptime of 9%... First i thought that it was a bug, but next try 10% uptime.

    However they fixed it after the first week and in general i get uptime above 15% on juju and renetakis. But i must say i really dislike the randomness of RPPM. Ofcourse its fun to crush the meters in a lucky streak with a 40% uptime on stuff that shouldnt get that high. But in my world consistant numbers mean alot

    Hmm this post turned out to be more of a rant than help, but yes renetakis is an upgrade compared to the 0/2 relic even with streaks of bad luck!

    Fuzzah

  4. #984
    Quote Originally Posted by wazzak View Post
    Link for this please?
    http://fluiddruid.net/forum/viewtopi...art=375#p16203
    http://fluiddruid.net/forum/viewtopi...art=350#p16195

    Quote Originally Posted by Fuzzyh View Post
    Hmm this post turned out to be more of a rant than help, but yes renetakis is an upgrade compared to the 0/2 relic even with streaks of bad luck!
    I wouldn't go so far as to say that. According to my trinket comparison here it is better by ~1350 DPS, however that is with Heroic T15 gear which has a whopping 21.23% haste.

    Now this is very napkin mathy, but the amount of haste you would need for Renataki's to have a high enough uptime to be superior to Relic of Xuen (on average) should be ~1.69%, which everyone has just from the spell haste raid buff.

    Taking my own character as an example, I've got 5.76% haste from gear and then an additional 5% from the spell haste raid buff would put me at 11.05% which would mean that it would only win over 476 Relic by ~750 DPS.

    My point is, the difference isn't particularly large and you could probably go back to using Relic if you really dislike the streakiness of Renataki's. Average DPS isn't always everything, there is something to be said for consistency.
    Last edited by aggixx; 2013-03-29 at 09:37 PM.

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  5. #985
    So i was lucky for the second week in a row and got RoR! So after going through the reforge madness (which wasnt that bad tnx to the youtube guide, cheers aggixx) I got to test it out a bit in LFR. The uptimes vary alot like the rest of the RPPM trinkets, but overall that trinket feels insane. The bleeds you can pull of with that thing is just crazy.
    Im still struggling to handle the buff as well as i should. its a pain if it pops right after you used TF and NS heal and berserk is down and no combo points. not very usefull then : ( usually get a few rakes off and maybee a trash if i dont have enough time combos to do a rip.

    I am not perfectly reforged for it since i could switch out some gems, but been really busy lately. Just wanted to try some LFR with it and see how it spins.
    i dont know to show max hit and crits on wol, but on magera (the only one without +dmg buff) i got max crit on rake for 356k and 273k for rip. dot ticks both of em. Really really powerfull trinket if you can pull off some good bleeds while its up.

    worldoflogs.com/reports/42rqkyvnro2mwqde/ dont bother too much with my bad uptimes and bad choices, i was aiming for getting some really good timings for RoR to see what it could really do.

    Anyone else with the trinket that wanna share their way to spot the buff and how they handle it ? i use tellmewhen in a huge frame to let me know it procced and then rake away untill i have the most powerfull rake going (often a DoC buffed one) and then hopefully get a doc buffed rip on aswell if i had not just put one up. otherwise i trash (for the 185k max hit bleed on magera)

    if renetakis last 2 sec line up with RoR at 25% with pot running and weapon enchant up on a boss ill shit little purple unicorns<3

    any questions regarding the trinket is welcome!

    Fuzz

  6. #986
    Stood in the Fire Paloro's Avatar
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    I've been getting used to my H TF Renataki's and had some awesome use of it during twin consorts last night Paloro's Twin Consort.

    One thing I've noticed is that if it proc's on your opener, you are better off just using FB instead of trying to refresh it minus TF. When I was refreshing I would be roughly 200k and using FB I was generally around 220k.

    Not one RoR has dropped for my guild yet, but I can't wait to get my paws on one!

  7. #987
    Quote Originally Posted by Paloro View Post
    I've been getting used to my H TF Renataki's and had some awesome use of it during twin consorts last night

    One thing I've noticed is that if it proc's on your opener, you are better off just using FB instead of trying to refresh it minus TF. When I was refreshing I would be roughly 200k and using FB I was generally around 220k.

    Not one RoR has dropped for my guild yet, but I can't wait to get my paws on one!
    I wonder how much time left on rip there should be for a dps increase to refresh at max stack of renataki. maybee compared to TF buffed and unbuffed one?

    Im drawing atm on twins, guess my teammembers are retarded and dies so i need to use both cranes and drake... epic fight tho for ferals with soulswap and if both are down to 25% and just keep double bleeds up during dawn is nice if the raiddps allows it.

    RoR got to be nerfed next patches, i dont see me using another trinket for quite some time.

  8. #988
    Yea I agree I don't blizzard will want us to use the same trinket for the rest of the expansion,

    Had the best of luck today @ 40% on Iron Qon last phase, 10 stacks Renekta, RoR, Tricks, Tigers Fury, Agi pop and DoS. Managed to keep it up untill boss died and got rank 1.

  9. #989
    Quote Originally Posted by Nidums View Post
    Had the best of luck today @ 40% on Iron Qon last phase, 10 stacks Renekta, RoR, Tricks, Tigers Fury, Agi pop and DoS. Managed to keep it up untill boss died and got rank 1.
    Kitty wet dream yeah.

    I am wondering how good Dream of Cenarius really is, compared to the other talents if you use rppm trinkets. I have seen the simulations, but it doesn't make much sense to me. How can Dream of Cenarius still be out top dps talent by that much if it makes us not be able to use our trinkets to the best of ability. I often refresh a rip with 10 stacks of rentaki. I can't see that being much of a dps increse if I do not happen to have a DoC ready.
    Does DoC work properly in a normal raid scenario? I can imagine it working with RoR but not really without.

    EDIT: Wrote DoC in stead of RoR in the very last line of text.
    Last edited by Karlzone; 2013-04-04 at 12:48 PM.

  10. #990
    Stood in the Fire Paloro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karlzone View Post
    I am wondering how good Dream of Cenarius really is, compared to the other talents if you use rppm trinkets. I have seen the simulations, but it doesn't make much sense to me. How can Dream of Cenarius still be out top dps talent by that much if it makes us not be able to use our trinkets to the best of ability. I often refresh a rip with 10 stacks of rentaki. I can't see that being much of a dps increse if I do not happen to have a DoC ready.
    Does DoC work properly in a normal raid scenario? I can imagine it working with DoC but not really without.
    Those are really contradicting statements there. What I'm reading is:
    Is DoC really our best t6 talent with all the RPPM trinkets?
    Does DoC work properly with these trinkets in a raid?

    Then you semi-answer your own question saying it could possibly work, but other talents won't beat it.

    -My feeling on it is that DoC has been a set-up rotation, but with our 2 and 4 piece t15 bonuses we should be able to take the time to hard cast HT to more properly ensure a DoC buff is up for the trinket procs. This means that we will likely be energy capped at points, but when you are looking at a ~100k AP Rip/Rake vs a 60-80k AP Rip/Rake it is an obvious choice.

  11. #991
    The problem I have with DoC is that it is very "rotational". I suppose that my question is: How do I make the best out of my trinkets with it?
    Also: Does it perform well consistently with these new trinkets? (I imagine it being very rng)

    EDIT: I wrote DoC in stead of RoR in the last post I made. Sorry for that lol

  12. #992
    The new trinkets are very susceptible to rng but given we're a few weeks in now (I have TF Renataki's and TF HC Bad Juju) they're overall not too bad. Yes, every now and then you get a very bleak try with regard to procs but most of the time I manage to get a pretty monster rip sub 25% and at the start of a fight the ones I have make for some tasty FB crits as well. One assumes rune and a hc weap would make the situation nicer but haven't had that luck as of yet!

  13. #993
    Mechagnome Etapicx's Avatar
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    Yeah it is RNG within the new trinkets... As much RNG as we always have had it just requires more prediction and planning ahead for example, Pooling energy so you'll always make it to the 5th CP with a stack of DoC is going to be really required. I'm not sure how Rune of Re-Origination will change my statement because I haven't obtained it yet. The only difference now is that you'll have a harder time knowing when your trinkets are going to proc because of RPPM system (which really sucks balls imo)

    Btw i'm Jinxed for the rest of the tier I won Darkwood Spiritstaff LFR like REALLY? Now I can't even dream to see it on normal not to mention HC.
    Last edited by Etapicx; 2013-04-04 at 01:24 PM.
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  14. #994
    Stood in the Fire Paloro's Avatar
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    @Karlzone:
    I'm not sure how geared you are right now, but I'm not having any trouble getting to 5 cp in a timely manner with my 2p. Once I get 4p it will be laughable as my next 3 attacks will have 80% crit chance.

    All I can suggest is to make sure you are pooling your energy before using any finisher to ensure you have ample energy to set-up when your trinket procs.

  15. #995
    the 4 piece and the 2 pieces makes you gain combo points oh so dam fast its insane. its easy to weave in atleast 1 FB in every rip to assure you have DoC up for next rip.
    The RoR trinket still fuck me up sometimes. i have yet to get some really good dmg rip out there cause it rarely procs at the same time as renetakis : (

    But pooling energy as other ppl say is a must. plenty of time as feral to think about what you gonna do next!

    The RNG with my trinkets are as usual(aka when they proc), the uptime however is alot more consistent after i got RoR and got more haste. i never see the 10% uptimes anymore which is kind of a relief.

    To my luck, but my raidmembers curse, we have had almost 80% vanq drop for us since 5.2 started. so dk, mage, druid in full tier and the rest left in the dust : ( curse of 10man raiding i guess

  16. #996
    Thanks for the replies but all I really gathered from those was the basics of DoC play (pooling energy) which I alrdy knew...
    Also that DoC will remain the insane RNG it is until you gain some of these: 2 piece, 4 piece and rune reorigination.

    It just feels so damn inconsistent. When you get your procs has a HUGE impact on your output. You want to sync a rip and rake with DoC AND a Tiger's Fury (cd ready in 4 sec)? Too bad... your rentaki proc is running out in two seconds. With DoC it is so limited when you can use your abilities if you want to avoid capping energy. You have two charges and two dots. You just applied a DoC rip? Well too bad because now your shado-pan trinket procced and you need to now apply it again and lose out on a FB.
    I used to really enjoy playing DoC. Now it just feels like i'm hoping for the best.
    There are so many empowerments for my dots that I miss when playing DoC (a 10 stack rentaki but I dont have a DoC charge) that it really does not feel worth it. My dots just dont do that much more damage with DoC compared to HotW as they did last tier.

  17. #997
    Stood in the Fire Paloro's Avatar
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    I'm not 100% sure I understand where you are coming from when you say DoC is RNG. DoC is actually the opposite of that since you can hard cast a HT to gain a set amount of stacks. Sure, you have 2 buffs and you are trying to sync within 2 seconds which is hard to do but it is doable.

    Energy capping, unfortunately isn't a dps loss if you are waiting for an extra 20-35k AP to use a 40% (TF+DoC) Rip/Rake. If Renataki's procs, your priorities shift greatly toward making sure you can refresh Rip within the last 2 seconds of the buff. Do you lose out on a FB, sure but who cares when my average FB crits at 220k while my average Rip tick crits with Renataki's (10 stacks) at 180k.

    To speak toward the DoC vs HotW thing, I was on int duty for HC Council last night doing roughly 138k as HotW until we pulled someone else in then I went back to DoC and shot up to averaging 165k. Keep in mind that Council is a very heavy target switching fight.

  18. #998
    I'm still running with HotW since I raid in 10s and we need the big tranq guy in most of the fights. Got my Rune last week and i'm wondering whether to drop Bad Juju (522) or the Shado-Pan trinket. My gut feeling says go with Bad Juju as it's uptime will increase with more haste.

    On a sidenote... are you always going to refresh Rip if RoR procs? Example: I just applied Rip with TF, dancing steel and Juju proc, 5 seconds later RoR procs and i would manage to get 5 CPs within 10 seconds. Should I reapply Rip even if Juju/TF just dropped and my old Rip has like 10 seconds remaining?

  19. #999
    Karlzone, I understand what you're saying. I started playing DoC a few weeks ago (joined what I feel was a "progressive" 25 man guild, and I wanted to get the most out of my kitty) and it just feels....clunky at best for the effort. RPPM items just complicate it more. I posted some logs awhile back looking for help with my DPS, making sure my DoC usage/uptime was on the right track, and from what I gather I was performing up to par. I'm just not noticing the increase that Simcraft and others say DoC is over HotW.

    Quote Originally Posted by Paloro View Post
    To speak toward the DoC vs HotW thing, I was on int duty for HC Council last night doing roughly 138k as HotW until we pulled someone else in then I went back to DoC and shot up to averaging 165k. Keep in mind that Council is a very heavy target switching fight.
    See, Paloro, comments like this just leave me scratching my head. I'm not calling you a liar, but RNG aside, how are you pulling 25kish more dps using DoC over HotW? My damage isn't lower with DoC, it's about the same as HotW, which from what I gather means I'm not doing it right.

    I review my logs as well as other ferals all the time and I'm not seeing a difference in rake/rip damage, DoC percentage (usually 30-40% depending, for me) etc, as others from DoC. Is the gap between DoC and HotW smaller than people claim (less than 3k at best) or am I just bad? Currently I have a ilvl of 512, does it get better with gear?

  20. #1000
    Mechagnome Etapicx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caterpillar View Post
    I'm still running with HotW since I raid in 10s and we need the big tranq guy in most of the fights. Got my Rune last week and i'm wondering whether to drop Bad Juju (522) or the Shado-Pan trinket. My gut feeling says go with Bad Juju as it's uptime will increase with more haste.

    On a sidenote... are you always going to refresh Rip if RoR procs? Example: I just applied Rip with TF, dancing steel and Juju proc, 5 seconds later RoR procs and i would manage to get 5 CPs within 10 seconds. Should I reapply Rip even if Juju/TF just dropped and my old Rip has like 10 seconds remaining?


    As for the rip question I'd advice you to take a look at http://fluiddruid.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=4446 And you can easely monitor how big the damage difference is and judge from there.
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