1. #1161
    Quote Originally Posted by raffy View Post
    "Found Zero Solutions. Try relaxing hit/exp requirements" means that there is no possible way to get your Hit and Exp inside the ranges specified in the interface. If your settings say "Hit At-least 2550, Exp At-least 2550, Range 100" that means Hit = [2550, 2650] and Exp = [2550, 2650]. Catus is smart enough to adjust the "2550" to your lowest possible hit automatically, however for you gear, if you have "Crit > Haste" checked or don't allow Catus to change your gems, the lowest possible Hit is 2677 (which is outside the 2550-2650 range.)

    The easiest thing to do is change the "Range" to something like "250". Which expands the search to [2550, 2800].

    As mentioned above, if you have issues, just make a post at the FluidDruid in my Catus thread, as I'm not very active on this forum.
    Thank you! That is exactly what was happening. Changed bounds of Hit/Exp to 200 and it started working. I think it got me an additional 1k mastery in procs and lowered my Exp to acceptable levels. Now just need to get it into game, but I will find that if I can.

  2. #1162
    Keyboard Turner
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    Catus is absolutely amazing. I tried it some time ago, on its early versions, and was very slow. but now the calculations happen very fast and the results are awesome. my reforge atm gives 6778mastery 6777crit 6777haste.
    Perfect!

  3. #1163
    I currently have three trinkets available to me.

    Bad Juju [522]
    Renataki's Soul Charm [522]
    Vicious Talisman of the Shado-Pan Assault

    I've been using the Charm and Talisman, but recently received Bad Juju on a bonus roll (I hadn't planned on switching trinkets except for a TF/Heroic RSC or a Rune of Re-Origination whenever we get to Lei Shen.

    Should I swap out the Talisman for the Bad Juju?

    Also, if I wind up getting a Rune of Re-Origination from LFR would that be worth replacing one of my trinkets?

    Thanks for any feedback.

  4. #1164
    Ror is Bis regardless of ilvl.

    Talismin and Soul Charm are currently more of a DPS gain than Bad Juju but the hit/exp might be a bit much to swallow.

    When you get Ror and you need the extra stats Juju is a decent choice to pair with it.

    Overall Trinket Break down:
    *Assume TF to be one spot ahead of its "normal" ilvl counterpart.
    Ror (535,522,502)> Juju(535)>Talisman (522)>Soul Charm (535,533)> Juju(522)>Bloodlust(535)>Bottle (510)> Terror (517)>Blood (522)> Xuen(476)


    Also major kudos to Catus the latest version is simply amazing.

  5. #1165
    I'm kinda new to feral so a couple questions.

    A) Do symbiosised spirit wolves from shamans do so little damage they're not worth mentioning?

    B) If I'm at like 70 energy 5 combo points, TF just came of CD and Rip is about to fall off. Do I thrash to spend energy w/o wasting a combo point TF then rip?

    C) Judging by the main post, I reapply rake every TF, but lets say I have a trinket/weapon buff that's about to fall off and TF just came off CD and I have high energy, is it worth TFing and wasting the extra energy to get a trinket+TF rake up instead of just a TF rake?

    D) Assuming I'm not goingIs it not worth opening from stealth via Ravage then Faire firing then TFing and doing the rest?

    Thanks!
    Thanks!
    Last edited by Emophia; 2013-05-31 at 04:24 PM.

  6. #1166
    Zookeeper Sunfyre's Avatar
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    A) yes.

    I'll let a feral answer the rest.

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  7. #1167
    B) In that scenario, yes you would Thrash if it's not already up, but keeping Thrash up IS a dps gain if you don't let it affect your rip uptime too much, so that may not necessarily be the case all of the time.

    C) No, you should avoid wasting energy anytime you possibly can. This goes for almost any time you have a choice between wasting energy vs doing something else.

    D) Difference is negligible, I don't believe anyone has actually bothered doing the calculations on which is strictly superior since, frankly, it hardly matters.

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  8. #1168
    Ok, thanks for the great answers!

  9. #1169
    Currently using an RoR myself, though I have a Tforged heroic Juju equipped currently with it. I also have a heroic Renataki's. I'm a bit torn between which to use since I noticed on the catus sim thread, Juju ended up being overall slightly better on average, though the top end is lost without the huge agility stack. Is it true that using Juju will average slightly higher, or should I put Renataki's back on?

  10. #1170
    Stood in the Fire Paloro's Avatar
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    It is all RNG at that point. I would use what you are more comfortable with.

    Personally I use a Renataki's b/c I have the HTF version compared to just a Heroic Juju. There have been many times that RNG was on my side and lined up a 5cp Rip with RoR proc'd with 10 Renataki blades around 30% hp.

  11. #1171
    Quote Originally Posted by Emophia View Post
    C) Judging by the main post, I reapply rake every TF, but lets say I have a trinket/weapon buff that's about to fall off and TF just came off CD and I have high energy, is it worth TFing and wasting the extra energy to get a trinket+TF rake up instead of just a TF rake?

    D) Assuming I'm not goingIs it not worth opening from stealth via Ravage then Faire firing then TFing and doing the rest?
    c) it's worth only if u not let rip to fall of
    d)if u go from stealth then u can't prepot rather it's a bit more burst at start if u too greedy for pots

    Quote Originally Posted by Zer0xChan View Post
    Currently using an RoR myself, though I have a Tforged heroic Juju equipped currently with it. I also have a heroic Renataki's. I'm a bit torn between which to use since I noticed on the catus sim thread, Juju ended up being overall slightly better on average, though the top end is lost without the huge agility stack. Is it true that using Juju will average slightly higher, or should I put Renataki's back on?
    renataki is better for DoC, but tf version could be on pair with it
    if u Hotw stay juju
    Last edited by Zstr; 2013-06-01 at 03:39 AM.

  12. #1172
    Greetings, fellow ferals! Well... actually I'm not a cat, I'm a bear in disguise. But I need your help.

    You see, my guild just recruited a new tank who has no DPS gear whatsoever, so this means I'm suddenly being thrust into a DPS role on our solo tank encounters. The problem with this is the fact that I haven't even gone into feral spec since around Christmas, yet I have to learn how to effectively DPS as a cat by tomorrow's raid. This essentially gives me two hours after work to learn how to deal damage as a feral. This is even more unfortunate due to the fact that almost everyone I talk to is telling me that the optimal feral 'rotation' is one of the hardest ones in the game (something to do with Dream of Cenarius). I know full well that I'm not good enough to learn how to do this effectively on such a short notice.

    So I come here asking, is there any simpler (yet "adequate") rotation tiny little kittens such as myself can pull off? I'm not expected to set the DPS meters on fire, but I do want to be as effective as I can (given the time I have to practice). Any help would be greatly appreciated.
    Last edited by Akylios; 2013-06-03 at 03:40 AM.

  13. #1173
    Would definitely recommend starting with HotW, DoC is nice but you already have plenty to get used to paying attention to aside from DoC mechanics.

    Some starter guidelines:
    • The only button you should ever be pressing when you have SR down is SR. SR glyph helps with this. You can and should use any number of CP on SR to maintain it, although more is definitely not a bad thing.
    • Rake is a very big portion of your single target DPS (and cleave DPS to some degree). It costs very little energy to maintain and has no cooldown so there's very little reason for it to not be up 100% of the time. This is probably the easiest thing to manage that's worth the most DPS.
    • Aside from maintaining SR, most of your combo points should be put into Rip, and it should only be applied with 5 CP. Optimal DPS involves weaving in some FBs where you can, but as a beginner you probably only want to FB during berserk and any other time where your Rip has a very long time remaining (maybe like 12+ seconds).
    • Try to watch for situations where SR and Rip are expiring around the same time, especially if SR is expiring first. This is where you're going to have to really watch your CP usage to keep everything up.
    • If you're not familiar with DoT mechanics, Rake, Rip, Thrash, and Savage Roar can all be refreshed when they have a small duration remaining without "clipping" the buff, as in the remaining duration is added to the new buff so there is no waste. You want to try to refresh Rip when it has less than 2 seconds left, and Rake Thrash and Savage Roar when they have less than 3 seconds left. This is very important to take advantage of to keep high uptimes on these buffs/debuffs.

    The "simplified non-DoC rotation" section in the main post covers a "simple" rotation pretty well, although you could probably ignore Thrash on single target to start out (just make sure you remember to add it back in once you're comfortable with the rest of the rotation!). If you have any specific questions feel free to ask.
    Last edited by aggixx; 2013-06-03 at 05:18 AM.

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  14. #1174
    Quote Originally Posted by aggixx View Post
    If you have any specific questions feel free to ask.
    Thanks for a great and detailed answer Aggixx. It feels like you've just pulled me out of a quicksand. You even answered questions I hadn't thought of asking yet.

    Taking you up on your offer, I have two more questions:

    1. Using the HOTW build you suggested, should I be reforging into haste or mastery? (Renataki's, Vicious Talisman, Legendary Meta)

    2. Is popping HOTW and casting wrath at the start of a fight a DPS increase for cats? (I sometimes do this as a bear)

    I'm asking about the reforging part because I've found some sources that say I should reforge into mastery, while others say I should reforge into haste. I also have a 'Bad Juju' trinket in the bank if it is better than the ones I use. (Worst luck ever when it comes to Rune of Re-Origination dropping, sadly.)
    Last edited by Akylios; 2013-06-03 at 03:29 PM.

  15. #1175
    Stood in the Fire Paloro's Avatar
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    By reforging into haste you will get more use out of using Juju/Renataki then Renataki/VT. It will be a dps increase to value haste higher, but don't let mastery fall too low. Bleeds are a huge portion of our dps so by dropping a lot of mastery can gimp your damage quick a bit.

    If you link your armory, we can give you a better direction.

  16. #1176
    With those trinkets you listed mastery will still beat out haste. I wouldn't even consider haste unless you're running HotW, the legendary meta, and 2 RPPM trinkets (and not rune, since the reforging scheme then becomes completely different). That said, I actually haven't heard of anyone trying a haste build with HotW, likely because the difference isn't all that significant and people would rather stay mastery to be able to freely switch between HotW and DoC without changing all their gems and reforges (and there's Rune throwing a wrench into it too).

    Wrath spam is only really going to be a noticeable gain if your caster weapon is better than your melee weapon. Depending on what content you're doing you'll probably want to save HotW's CD for a Tranquility at some point in the fight, so using it as a pure DPS CD in those cases would be a little silly. However, if your caster weapon is at least somewhat close it's not a bad thing to do some wrathing after you're done using Tranquility if it seems appropriate for the situation.

    PS: I haven't looked into it thoroughly, since frankly it's not something that most people should even consider, but if you were to go down the haste stacking route I believe Paloro is correct in saying there is a balance that needs to be found. You can't go all out haste or you'll lose DPS over a pure mastery build.
    Last edited by aggixx; 2013-06-03 at 04:55 PM.

    Feral Druid Maintainer of SimC // Moderator at Fluid Druid forums
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  17. #1177
    Also note that wrath doesn't proc capacitance, so it's somewhat devalued if you have the legendary meta.

  18. #1178
    Just a small update.

    Thanks to this thread my feral DPS increased by over 30k since last night (don't ask). I still have a long way to go, but just some helpful tips from the community got me a long way.

    I wound up going all out haste spec before I saw the latest posts in this thread. I did this because for whatever reason I was getting much better DPS on a target dummy by reforging to haste. This has no doubt a lot to do with my inability to manage my dots properly, and I suppose haste is a more newbie friendly stat in this regard. As I get more comfortable with the rotation, I'll switch over to mastery.

    I did not set the DPS meters on fire, but I did wind up doing a competent job and that's all I could have hoped for. So thanks a lot guys, and thanks for taking the time to write up these great instructions aggixx. I really appreciate all the help you've given.

  19. #1179
    Anyone tried messing around with FON for farm content? If so, what did you think? I get bored on farm content, would be a nice change of pace to try something different :P
    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...decat/advanced
    You seem mad. Are you suffering from some jelly related psychosis?

  20. #1180
    Hi two more questions.

    1) If I'm in a blood in the water phase with a real nice rip thats about to fall off. Is it ok to refresh it via a 1 or 2 cp ferocious bite?

    2) If I'm at 5 combo points but cant FB because I'll need to refresh both SR and Rip soon do I burn of energy by thrashing?

    Thanks.

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