1. #1561
    What does RoR have to do with it? You can make your caster weapon proc crit or haste instead of mastery. It's also unreasonable to assume that just because you might have a hard time getting a decent caster weapon that that's the same case for everyone else.

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  2. #1562
    I looked for it in the previous pages but I couldn't find an answer:

    I know that Weapon DPS is still the big deal with agility pretty close nowadays but I'm still not sure about which is better:

    http://www.wowhead.com/item=95803 (Shan-Dun, LFR with a red socket and the Eye of the Black Prince) or http://www.wowhead.com/item=86879 (Gao-Rei, LFR with the legendary + 500 agility gem and the Eye of the Black Prince)

    The first one has 4725 WDPS, and a total of 1594 Agility with gems.
    The second one has 3958 WDPS and a total of 1744 with gems.

    Looking at these numbers i'd say that the Thunder Throne would be better, but the Sha one seems to have Mastery while the first one has Haste (which I could reforge ofc)

    I probably think the ilevel 502 one would be better, but I'd rather be sure before investing any time and money farming and enchanting it.

    Thanks a lot.
    Last edited by AtaraxyDarkmoonFaire; 2013-08-30 at 08:20 AM.

  3. #1563
    The Lightbringer Elunedra's Avatar
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    between those two there is a 800 weapon dps difference and only an 150 difference in agi, so i would defently go for first one
    TREE DURID IS 4 PEE

  4. #1564
    Stood in the Fire Paloro's Avatar
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    Absolutely the Shan-Dun

  5. #1565
    I normaly only lurk these forums and dont bother posting, because i dont feel the need to justify myself, but i got anoyed by some posts and dont want newer ferals to get the wrong impression.
    im a heroic raider in a 25man guild. and i play near exclusively hotw and i totaly agree with the midwinter ferals.

    during progression i look what makes us as a group kill the boss faster, and hotw gets the edge almost all the time and this is why.

    Utility:
    first off i use a weaponswap macro when i pop hotw to my caster staff that makes my tranq heal for 4mil+ making its a solid heal cd.
    I have rune reforged that when i swap to it i have crit higher then mastery for my hurricane/wrath hurricane is still a nice boost as aoe on some fights.
    Im not bound to use ns, for doc. i can use cenarion ward on bosses where damage comes over time rampage/quils/ironqonstomp etc
    also i can use ps when i actualy need to heal instead of overhealing it for dps gains. Also 6% more stam is solid to have.
    hotw gives me also an oh crap button and makes me tank/heal bosses when shit hits the fan.
    i have tanked bosses for the last 2/3% when the raid was wiping up to get a kill in by popping all my cds there in bear.

    Dps.
    The whole doc is much better for dps is so overrated unless you are a robot in a targetdummy fight with near 100% uptime and your trinketprocs line up with doc (*spoiler alert this never happends) all for what 3% more theoretical dps?

    Unless you can line doc up with specific buffs like the food on ji-kun or a pool on jin-rock with trinkets making your superbleeds and the 25% execute phase alot stronger. yeah i can see doc be nice purly for dps on those fights, but if you are not getting to 4th pool on jinrock it doesnt matter to much, other then killing the boss faster means less chance to wipe, thats about it.

    My dps rotation is so smooth with hotw for me at the moment i can do it near blindly while having 100% raid awareness. I still top dps meter often and get ranked a ton on heroic bosses( rankings dont mean shit on most fights btw )

    So there it is my 2cents from a random feral.

    Ps: now im posting here anyway i wanne give a shoutout to all the theorycrafters and sim/addon guys over here and other feraldruid forums if you read this,
    you guys know who you are! your work is much appreciated.
    Last edited by NoeNoe; 2013-08-31 at 08:24 PM.

  6. #1566
    I am one of the "newer Druids" you mention as I am re-rolling from lock. I am a heroic 25 man raider also. I have seen the benefit of both DOC and HOTW but also have been confused by the argument for both. I must admit I will be going with HOTW because of the utility it can bring to a raid.
    My question is with the ammount of agi will we be getting in Siege and the 6% increase HOTW gives would it be beneficial to ignore socket bonuses and gem full agi for a max increase when using HOTW?
    Any comments are much appreciated

  7. #1567
    Mechagnome Etapicx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glenton View Post
    I am one of the "newer Druids" you mention as I am re-rolling from lock. I am a heroic 25 man raider also. I have seen the benefit of both DOC and HOTW but also have been confused by the argument for both. I must admit I will be going with HOTW because of the utility it can bring to a raid.
    My question is with the ammount of agi will we be getting in Siege and the 6% increase HOTW gives would it be beneficial to ignore socket bonuses and gem full agi for a max increase when using HOTW?
    Any comments are much appreciated
    With RoR equipped or even without i strongly doubt it, maybe some lesser secondary stat bonus.
    Always choose a lazy person to do the difficult job!
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  8. #1568
    Guys, have you tried boosted treants ? Ive tried them on dummy without buffs and their rake ticks for 10-11k (with worse gear than i have on live server, was lazy to copy char ). and hits for 15-16k melee

  9. #1569
    Mechagnome Etapicx's Avatar
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    For the poster above

    Quote Originally Posted by aggixx View Post
    I was seeing a 3 set of Treants with RoR and one stack of blades doing just over 400k rake damage (or about 25k a tick). This is an addition to their melee attacks which was coming out to about half of that.



    Uhh... were you not in cat form? You have to be in Cat Form or they inherit your pitiful caster form AP.


    Edit: Here's a log if anyone's interested. ~7 minutes of combat with flask/food as HotW/FoN (Treants are pets so they don't show up in my damage, you have to click the arrow next to my name on the log I linked):
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...um/damageDone/

    Treants were 7.73% of my damage and Rake ticked a total of 144 times for an average of 33,170 damage per tick. During Rune I dumped my charges (waiting for procs inside the Rune when feasible) and outside of Rune procs I banked charges, waiting until I was about to hit 3 before spending one.

    I'm not raid buffed in this log (which means I'm missing mastery).
    Always choose a lazy person to do the difficult job!
    Why?
    He will find an easy way to do it.


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  10. #1570

  11. #1571
    The Lightbringer Elunedra's Avatar
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    Are treant now the best dps talent ? and what if you done rune or play hotw
    TREE DURID IS 4 PEE

  12. #1572
    Mechagnome Etapicx's Avatar
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    Rune has a big effect on FoN, I don't think HotW vs DoC will make such a big difference i mean DoC won't effect the treants but HotW will slightly with our higher base agility. I've seen some numbers but i don't know if it's good enough to make it better then SofT. I think we'll actually have a bigger variation and the talents to pick will depend on the encounters.

    The thing is that losing SofT makes the rotation little "harder" and FoN will make it yet more "difficult" in the way of having to track and time them, especially having to put 3 GCDs during RoR proc.
    Always choose a lazy person to do the difficult job!
    Why?
    He will find an easy way to do it.


    I'm schizophrenic and alone... at least I got each other

  13. #1573
    Quote Originally Posted by Etapicx View Post
    The thing is that losing SofT makes the rotation little "harder" and FoN will make it yet more "difficult" in the way of having to track and time them, especially having to put 3 GCDs during RoR proc.
    Treants are off-GCD

  14. #1574
    Mechagnome Etapicx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alpheus View Post
    Treants are off-GCD
    Shows how much i pay attention lol. Pretty sure i read it somewhere at Fluiddruid by someone who have tested them that it was one of the downsides but that must've been a misinterpretation.
    Always choose a lazy person to do the difficult job!
    Why?
    He will find an easy way to do it.


    I'm schizophrenic and alone... at least I got each other

  15. #1575
    Quote Originally Posted by Etapicx View Post
    With RoR equipped or even without i strongly doubt it, maybe some lesser secondary stat bonus.
    Sorry Eta I don't quite understand your reply. I was Implying that HoTW increase our agility by 6%, is that off base stats or does it take into account gems I.e total agility. If it takes total agi and gives it a 6% increase would it be viable to ignore socket bonuses and gem full agi (obviously keeping ago bonuses) to max out the possible agility ?

  16. #1576
    Quote Originally Posted by glenton View Post
    does it take into account gems I.e total agility.
    Yes.

    Quote Originally Posted by glenton View Post
    would it be viable to ignore socket bonuses and gem full agi (obviously keeping ago bonuses) to max out the possible agility ?
    No.

    On treants: Current numbers I'm getting out of SimC is that they are indeed better than Soul of the Forest, but that is with a very significant amount of proc gaming and they're still only better by a small margin.

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  17. #1577
    Mechagnome Etapicx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glenton View Post
    Sorry Eta I don't quite understand your reply. I was Implying that HoTW increase our agility by 6%, is that off base stats or does it take into account gems I.e total agility. If it takes total agi and gives it a 6% increase would it be viable to ignore socket bonuses and gem full agi (obviously keeping ago bonuses) to max out the possible agility ?
    What i meant is that it wont be worth it, at max it would probably be worth ignoring something really minor like 60 off a secondary stat or something. That is assuming you don't have RoR because if you would i don't even know if it is worth the agility for losing secondary, the value is quite close.
    Always choose a lazy person to do the difficult job!
    Why?
    He will find an easy way to do it.


    I'm schizophrenic and alone... at least I got each other

  18. #1578
    The Lightbringer Elunedra's Avatar
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    but treent are ofcourse only the best talent if you have the trinket right?
    TREE DURID IS 4 PEE

  19. #1579
    Quote Originally Posted by Elunedra View Post
    but treent are ofcourse only the best talent if you have the trinket right?
    Well most of the procs in T16 gear have a similar magnitude to 10-stack renataki or Rune (with Rune still having a slight lead if reforged properly) so all trinket combinations should allow for some high buff-abuse with treants. If anything, it will most likely come to AoC-SotF vs. everything else-treants (since AoC along with 4set vastly increase your finisher counts thus generating more energy through SotF resulting in even more finishers).

  20. #1580
    Quote Originally Posted by Etapicx View Post
    The thing is that losing SofT makes the rotation little "harder" and FoN will make it yet more "difficult" in the way of having to track and time them, especially having to put 3 GCDs during RoR proc.
    Uff I can already imagine the annoyance of not even having SotF energy during rune procs.

    On the topic of Treants, I would love them to do a little bit of cleave. On fights like horridon, our tier 4 talent is just not very useful

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