1. #2381
    Hoping i can steal a couple of you more experienced feral to help me analyze WOL for this weeks hc garrosh kill if you dont mind.

    last week i used 574 TED/580 Haromms and did 438k on garrosh http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-vc...yze/dd/source/

    this week i used a 530 rune/580 haromms and did 353k?? http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-og...yze/dd/source/

    Now theres no way in hell it can be just because i swapped out my574 TED for 530 RUNE and this week i felt i had better trinket rng than last week until i see the meters at the end. Could anybody please take 5 mins and help me figure out why the difference is so large?

    thanks alot fellers.

  2. #2382
    @tachyne these logs seems ordinary.
    Here is my critic:
    1. Rake - average non-crit tick. It should be higher with RoRO.

    #1 means that you did not utilize rake snapshots well.
    Last edited by mmokri; 2014-03-27 at 05:14 PM. Reason: #2 deleted

  3. #2383
    Where are you getting 438K? I see 354K (rune) vs v368K (no-rune) for Garrosh-only damage.

    In the no-rune parse, you got TotT 17 times and used Berserk 1-extra time. That's equivalent to 1 rogue casting on you nearly every cooldown. Catus says 1 TotT is worth about 4% for your gear (also note that 368K/354K = 4% as well, but circumstantial)

    In the rune parse, you need to use Rake more. From your opener:
    [19:47:36.782] Tachyne Rake Garrosh Hellscream 354147
    [19:47:38.220] Tachyne Shred Garrosh Hellscream *317780*
    [19:47:39.905] Tachyne Rake Garrosh Hellscream *708294*

    For add damage, the Thrash on the first set is critical when you have opener proc alignment. In your non-rune parse, you did it before stuff faded. In your rune parse, you applied Thrash to the adds right after your procs fell off.
    [19:47:34.990] Tachyne Thrash Garrosh Hellscream *567901*
    [19:47:41.122] Tachyne Thrash Garrosh Hellscream *225598*
    If you want to scumbag these, just delay your opener a few seconds so your procs always exist when the adds arrive.

    Lastly, a single standard deviation for your expected DPS at your item level is probably 20K. You can't expect to perform at the average for each parse, there is a lot of fluctuation. It is very difficult to figure out what's better from two in-game boss-encounter parses. Simulation has difficulty with this task, even though it has a much larger sample size (10K+ instead of 2) and a significantly simpler and rigid encounter (Patchwerk.)
    Last edited by raffy; 2014-03-27 at 07:57 PM.

  4. #2384
    Thanks alot Raffy mate, makes sense now.

  5. #2385
    Compiled list of WoD alpha changes here:
    http://fluiddruid.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4882
    Last edited by aggixx; 2014-04-04 at 03:43 AM.

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  6. #2386
    Quote Originally Posted by aggixx View Post
    Compiled list of WoD alpha changes here:
    http://fluiddruid.net/forum/viewtopi...&t=4882#p21830
    http://fluiddruid.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4882
    fixed that for you

  7. #2387
    Woops! Sorry, copy/paste fail.

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  8. #2388
    DoC gone as a DPS talent. That sucks. I don't really understand why NV still gives a damage increase when they say they didn't want that. Wouldn't it make more sense to remove that part and increase the damage-to-healing one to keep it in line with the other two talents?

  9. #2389
    The Lightbringer Elunedra's Avatar
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    yep, i dont think NV will kepe its damage boost for ferals, else its a silly oversight from blizzard

    i will miss symbiosis, its THE ability we druids got for level 90 and we loose it already, i dont think any other class is loosing its lvl 90 ability
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  10. #2390
    Quote Originally Posted by Elunedra View Post
    i dont think any other class is loosing its lvl 90 ability
    void shift (removed), shadow blades (removed), skull banner and demoralizing banner (removed), stampede (moved to talent)

    Loss of symbiosis is unfortunate from a raid viability standpoint but it's somewhat mitigated by the buff to survival instincts (which also has its own advantages).

  11. #2391
    Quote Originally Posted by Elunedra View Post
    yep, i dont think NV will kepe its damage boost for ferals, else its a silly oversight from blizzard

    i will miss symbiosis, its THE ability we druids got for level 90 and we loose it already, i dont think any other class is loosing its lvl 90 ability
    70% DR (can be glyphed still for a one minute cd, not all changes are in) w/ 2 charges is nothing to scoff at. I'd say nearly unkillable especially with doubled health pools.

    Symbiosis added button bloat to every class - most people would refuse to even put it on their action bars. It was extremely frustrating to deal with respecs right before a pull, the 6 sec CD on reapplying, and multiple druids wanting the same target. Good choice imo, but it does unfortunately remove some depth + choice for simplicity.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Rioo View Post
    DoC gone as a DPS talent. That sucks. I don't really understand why NV still gives a damage increase when they say they didn't want that. Wouldn't it make more sense to remove that part and increase the damage-to-healing one to keep it in line with the other two talents?
    I think that's an error if you read the entire druid section (its a few paragraphs long explaining all changes). They want to mostly remove the damage increases from the hybrid tools so you can choose the best healing/utility option in any situation w/o sacrificing damage.


    -The level 90-Talent row for Druids was designed to encourage hybrid gameplay. We decided that, while you shouldn't have to give up a significant amount of your primary role throughput in order to gain the off-role benefit, you also don't need to gain an actual benefit to your primary role throughput benefit either. We've reduced the power of their primary role benefit, making them roughly neutral in their effect on your primary role. Note that the increase to off-role healing from Nature's Vigil is not actually a buff (see Healing and Player Health above).

    Giving NV a damage boost would make no sense reading this^
    Last edited by Aboubacar; 2014-04-04 at 11:52 AM.

  12. #2392
    Quote Originally Posted by officerlahey View Post
    I think that's an error if you read the entire druid section (its a few paragraphs long explaining all changes). They want to mostly remove the damage increases from the hybrid tools so you can choose the best healing/utility option in any situation w/o sacrificing damage.

    -The level 90-Talent row for Druids was designed to encourage hybrid gameplay. We decided that, while you shouldn't have to give up a significant amount of your primary role throughput in order to gain the off-role benefit, you also don't need to gain an actual benefit to your primary role throughput benefit either. We've reduced the power of their primary role benefit, making them roughly neutral in their effect on your primary role. Note that the increase to off-role healing from Nature's Vigil is not actually a buff (see Healing and Player Health above).

    Giving NV a damage boost would make no sense reading this^
    Yeah exactly. Would just be weird for a big company like Blizzard who actually put a lot of time into these patch notes to forgot to change the tooltip. Especially since they actually changed NV's numbers.

  13. #2393
    The Lightbringer Elunedra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aseyhe View Post
    void shift (removed), shadow blades (removed), skull banner and demoralizing banner (removed), stampede (moved to talent)

    Loss of symbiosis is unfortunate from a raid viability standpoint but it's somewhat mitigated by the buff to survival instincts (which also has its own advantages).
    ups oke i take that back

    however the SI buff wont make up for immunities we had like buble
    like soaking those 1M hits from static things on lei shen, with dispersion or buble was easy, but if you do it with SI 70% you have ot use BS on top of it (remember bakc then we didnt have 700K hp)

    or cleaning orbs of HC mokoroc
    TREE DURID IS 4 PEE

  14. #2394
    Quote Originally Posted by Elunedra View Post
    ups oke i take that back

    however the SI buff wont make up for immunities we had like buble
    like soaking those 1M hits from static things on lei shen, with dispersion or buble was easy, but if you do it with SI 70% you have ot use BS on top of it (remember bakc then we didnt have 700K hp)

    or cleaning orbs of HC mokoroc
    I don't think you realize how much 70% actually is. At the moment I've got ~815k HP in raid. SI would allow me to live through a hit of 2.71 million damage, SI + Barkskin 3.4 million damage, and SI + Barkskin + Might of Ursoc 4.41 million damage.

    No you're not going to be able to take infinite amounts of damage, but there are very few mechanics this expansion you would not have been able to live through with this much damage reduction, even at content-relevant HP levels.

    Also consider that while you may have to use multiple cooldowns to achieve said damage reduction, you now have 2 SI charges which means you'll always have a cooldown leftover for normal uses unless you're soaking in rapid succession (something we couldn't do at all before).

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  15. #2395
    Aggixx weak like baby arm. Me stronk like hulk.

  16. #2396
    Static Shock in the second intermission is the main one. You needed 90% mitigation for that and even then it would take off most of your health (so normally you'd want to stack another cooldown on top of that).

    And of course, Unstable Vita. Druids used cloak of shadow, ice block, or divine shield to remove the debuff and soak multiple times, something they'll no longer be able to do.

    That being said, the long duration of survival instincts gives it its own new niche and we may well see mechanics for which it's better than our previous options. (Actually I can already think of one: Malice.)

  17. #2397
    I'm wondering how I should be opening for single target as a Feral Druid. I am 578 ilvl with HTF AoC and H Harroms and 4set. I know the normal opener people with TED do but I get terrible results with it because AoC being ICD never actually wants to proc on pull. Current I just Mangle 3 times, TF+Berserk, Thrash, Rake, Rip (Shred before rip if not 5cp). Not sure if there is a better way.

    Also when looking logs for Galakras to see how people are opening on AoE I notice that most Ferals are spamming Thrash a lot and not using Swipe, can someone explain this?
    Last edited by Glurp; 2014-04-05 at 12:13 PM.

  18. #2398
    Quote Originally Posted by Glurp View Post
    I'm wondering how I should be opening for single target as a Feral Druid. I am 578 ilvl with HTF AoC and H Harroms and 4set. I know the normal opener people with TED do but I get terrible results with it because AoC being ICD never actually wants to proc on pull. Current I just Mangle 3 times, TF+Berserk, Thrash, Rake, Rip (Shred before rip if not 5cp). Not sure if there is a better way.

    Also when looking logs for Galakras to see how people are opening on AoE I notice that most Ferals are spamming Thrash a lot and not using Swipe, can someone explain this?
    Try invis>roar>ravage>rake>???>rip.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Also my fav. for non-rune healing touch>invis>roar>ravage>rake>roar>shred up to 5>healing touch>rip.
    Last edited by mmokri; 2014-04-05 at 06:59 PM.

  19. #2399
    Quote Originally Posted by mmokri View Post
    Try invis>roar>ravage>rake>???>rip.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Also my fav. for non-rune healing touch>invis>roar>ravage>rake>roar>shred up to 5>healing touch>rip.
    The first one you listed is fine if you aren't using potion.
    Second one makes very little sense. Why would you use roar again that soon? You'd probably have 8 seconds duration left. The way you open without TED is something like this: roar > rake > 2x mangle/shred > cooldowns > rake = rip (order dependant if you got a crit or not; you don't want to waste cp if you can help it) > rake/shred to full cp > rip again (as long as you still have TF) > shred/mangle until savage roar runs out > roar
    If you use DoC then you just apply a rip in the first gcd of TF, get combo points and then use a DoC'd rip before it runs out. Sneak in a thrash in there at some point as well.
    Don't sweat about the opener too much. A bit of practise and you should really be able to figure out how to adjust with crits the best.

  20. #2400
    Quote Originally Posted by Glurp View Post
    I'm wondering how I should be opening for single target as a Feral Druid. I am 578 ilvl with HTF AoC and H Harroms and 4set. I know the normal opener people with TED do but I get terrible results with it because AoC being ICD never actually wants to proc on pull. Current I just Mangle 3 times, TF+Berserk, Thrash, Rake, Rip (Shred before rip if not 5cp). Not sure if there is a better way.

    Also when looking logs for Galakras to see how people are opening on AoE I notice that most Ferals are spamming Thrash a lot and not using Swipe, can someone explain this?
    same opener with 4 set for all ror or non-ror, doc/hotw etc
    prepull preporation pots heal touch
    stealth
    tf
    sr -give you 3 cp
    ravange - get 2 cp and should proc trinkets
    faire fire - another chance for trinkets proc
    -- here you could take 1-3 sec downtime to wait for trinkets, pop berserk meanwhile
    rip
    rake
    trash
    etc

    if aoc still not proc then foget , blame RNG, I even have sometimes at start harom's trinket not procs together with ror after few wipes pulls RNG is RNG

    For aoe
    with ror it's Trash spam coz of buffed bleed dmg
    you don't have RoR then just normal tf-berserk->trash+swipe spam,
    I have a 2nd feral in my raid team he is also without ror, and he beating my ass in aoe, coz I have downtime with energy regen, when RoR proc(have to sacrifice smth for 45k mastery RoR godly OP proc >.<)

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