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  1. #1

    MoP Haste Breakpoints

    Since we have access to the great "DOT/HOT Haste calculation 5.0"-spreadsheet made by Keldion, we know about the actual haste thresholds in Mists.

    Due to the fact that i don't have any skills with SimCraft, i wanted to know about the haste breakpoints that are actually worth it to get.

    - I.e. Affliction uses Mastery as its best stat with T14 high end gear, so does it actually make sense to reforge your gear into haste until you get such a breakpoint or would it be a dps loss?

    - What about breakpoints during BL/Hero/TW, since we used it for an additional Immolate tick (2681 Haste) for Destruction in 4.3. Is there anything comparable in T14?


    It would be nice, if someone could link the spreadsheet, because i don't have any permissions to do it by myself.


    Thanks in advance!
    Last edited by FruitSauce; 2012-11-24 at 04:57 PM.

  2. #2

  3. #3
    Thanks alot, Bidis!

  4. #4
    Can I ask what Wrath is on the spreadsheets you linked? I'm assuming that it's just the 5% spell haste buff in raids but there's no ability/buff called wrath that gives haste.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Brusalk View Post
    Can I ask what Wrath is on the spreadsheets you linked? I'm assuming that it's just the 5% spell haste buff in raids but there's no ability/buff called wrath that gives haste.
    yes its 5% haste and I suspect its coming from http://db.mmo-champion.com/s/3738/wrath-of-air-totem/

  6. #6
    Ahh. Alright

    (Isn't wrath of air totem removed in MoP? Might be a good idea just to call it like the Raid Haste Buff or something rather than a non-existent spell)

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by FruitSauce View Post
    Thanks alot, Bidis!
    No prob
    Also yes they should call it spell haste or one of the actual buffs, but we get it so

  8. #8
    I've been looking for info on spell haste. Thanks for this thread.

  9. #9
    Fluffy Kitten Zinnin's Avatar
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    Before everyone goes and starts drinking the 'Haste Breakpoint Cool-aid' I would like to remind everyone that these breakpoints DO NOT increase damage by a significant amount at all, and that going for a haste breakpoint if haste is not your best stat to be going for is probably going to lower your dps instead increasing it.

    Demo will end up refreshing the majority of its corruptions in meta, which makes a haste break point irrelevant.

    Destro's conflag no longer scaled based on immolate's damage, so the haste point there is far more minor then it was before.

    Affliction's three DoTs have haste points that are so separate that going for one puts you in the middle of the next, so you are never going to really get an overly optimal point of haste. Since in the sims, mastery is currently the best stat you will not want to go out of you way for any of them.

    To reiterate, in Mists (which is basically the same as cata minus destro) it will NOT be worth your time to worry too much about a haste breakpoint unless your are +\- ~100 or so rating, otherwise just stick with your stat weights.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by zinnin View Post
    Before everyone goes and starts drinking the 'Haste Breakpoint Cool-aid' I would like to remind everyone that these breakpoints DO NOT increase damage by a significant amount at all, and that going for a haste breakpoint if haste is not your best stat to be going for is probably going to lower your dps instead increasing it.

    Demo will end up refreshing the majority of its corruptions in meta, which makes a haste break point irrelevant.

    Destro's conflag no longer scaled based on immolate's damage, so the haste point there is far more minor then it was before.

    Affliction's three DoTs have haste points that are so separate that going for one puts you in the middle of the next, so you are never going to really get an overly optimal point of haste. Since in the sims, mastery is currently the best stat you will not want to go out of you way for any of them.

    To reiterate, in Mists (which is basically the same as cata minus destro) it will NOT be worth your time to worry too much about a haste breakpoint unless your are +\- ~100 or so rating, otherwise just stick with your stat weights.
    This. There are no relevant points in haste for any spec other than destro (and its not even for dots), but destro has a very delicate balance with its mana so even that is debatable.

    This tier is going to be much more challenging for theorycrafters, you won't be able to say "Well, this dots DPET just went up 5k obv dps increase" because all of our spells are synergistic with the others. Sure, you just got the next UA tick, but at what cost? Did the 4k more on UA outweight the 2.5k you just lost on corruption/BoA because you dumped mastery?

    It's best to always sim your great and use reforge plotlines, they will help the most. It may take some time but hey, go make a sandwich.
    Soulburn: Unstable Affliction. A boy can dream.

  11. #11
    The only haste point I've found for affliction that's actually significant enough to affect reforging/gearing choices is the point where both corruption and unstable affliction gain a tick during bloodlust. It's at 1126 at level 85 and 4198 at level 90, and it's significant only because the sim does bloodlust at the start, where you also have a lot of other cooldowns synced.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Brusalk View Post
    Ahh. Alright

    (Isn't wrath of air totem removed in MoP? Might be a good idea just to call it like the Raid Haste Buff or something rather than a non-existent spell)
    It is removed, and is now an aura that gives Mastery. Not Haste.
    I'm not a native English speaker, and yet, I don't suck at English. The argument "English is not my mother tongue" doesn't actually give you an excuse to do so.

  13. #13
    Yep as far as affliction is concerned, tried to hit all the reachable haste breakpoints recently. My current reforge yields the best results. Haste is not worth as much as it did. Mastery on the other hand is pure gold.

  14. #14
    Interesting to know. I'd allready gone over the list and wondered where the obvious "best" point would be, and if it was at all attainable in T14 gear but it seems me not seeing any obvious points wasn't cause I'm dumb, but because there aren't actually any decent points. I'll at least keep the list bookmarked to check back on when I Sim my gear, as a reference when I see odd behaviour in Scale factors.
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  15. #15
    Stood in the Fire SaltLakeAtrocity's Avatar
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    Anyone sim decent haste breakpoints with the higher gear levels we're seeing nowadays? It seems affliction locks, even in the top tiers, are completely scattered as to whether 4198 haste rating is worth reaching or if balls-to-the-walls mastery is better.
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  16. #16
    Mechagnome Kildragon's Avatar
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    Haste breakpoints aren't worth it all that much. Just sim the difference between 4500 haste and 5000 haste as Afflic and then the difference between 5000 haste and 5500 haste. The haste breakpoints don't offer a significant DPS increase because of the way DoTs are now calculated, which has actually been the case since Cata released. The only times that haste breakpoints matter is when you're intentionally letting DoTs fall off or when you have adds and you cast the DoT once, it runs its full duration, falls off and you reapply it after or don't reapply at all.

  17. #17
    Stood in the Fire SaltLakeAtrocity's Avatar
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    Not to necro an old thread, but it seemed more relevant than starting a new thread on the same topic.

    After continuous simcraft tests running with 10,000 iterations of several different builds (running LightMovement, this tier doesn't really have a conventional patchwerk fight), I'm finding the haste breakpoints to be a definitive dps increase.

    The breakpoints I tested 4198, 4717, and 6637. Each breakpoint was about a 600dps increase above the previous point.

    I studied the haste breakpoint chart and line it up to several "top-tiered" locks. While alot aim for the 4717 point, im seeing more than I'd expect at arbitrary numbers around 5100-5200 haste rating and 7500-7700 haste rating. I'm sure there's a specific breakpoint around these numbers, but I'm not currently able to see it on the chart. If anyone knows what those points are, it'd be appreciated if you'd let me know.
    -- We'll Dance As The Palaces Burn --

  18. #18
    agony+5 raid5 bl 313
    cor+4 raid5 bl 759
    UA+1 raid5 872
    agony+1 solo 1783
    cor+1 2367
    agony+6 raid5 bl 2904
    UA+1 3040
    agony+2 raid5 3043
    cor+5 raid5 bl 4198
    UA+4 raid5 bl 4198

    cor+2 raid5 4717
    agony+2 solo 5320
    agony+7 raid5 bl 5494
    agony+3 raid5 6400
    UA+2 raid5 6637
    cor+2 7078
    cor+6 raid5 bl 7658
    agony+8 raid5 bl 8107
    UA+5 raid5 bl 8647
    agony+3 solo 8845
    UA+2 9094
    cor+3 raid5 9211
    agony+4 raid5 9778
    Last edited by purefury; 2012-11-24 at 11:05 AM.

  19. #19
    Stood in the Fire SaltLakeAtrocity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by purefury View Post
    agony+5 raid5 bl 313
    cor+4 raid5 bl 759
    UA+1 raid5 872
    agony+1 solo 1783
    cor+1 2367
    agony+6 raid5 bl 2904
    UA+1 3040
    agony+2 raid5 3043
    cor+5 raid5 bl 4198
    UA+4 raid5 bl 4198

    cor+2 raid5 4717
    agony+2 solo 5320
    agony+7 raid5 bl 5494
    agony+3 raid5 6400
    UA+2 raid5 6637
    cor+2 7078
    cor+6 raid5 bl 7658
    agony+8 raid5 bl 8107
    UA+5 raid5 bl 8647
    agony+3 solo 8845
    UA+2 9094
    cor+3 raid5 9211
    agony+4 raid5 9778
    i clearly know those breakpoints; its the seemingly arbitrary 5100-5200 breakpoint that im not seeing or understanding and the 7600-7700 haste breakpoint.

    your chart hints at the later, but shows nothing for 5100-5200 haste rating. despite many "top-end" locks specing there.
    -- We'll Dance As The Palaces Burn --

  20. #20
    its not bcoz you're at a breakpoint, but rather bcoz you're getting close to one as once you get close enough to the haste breakpoints mastery starts to loose value and haste overtakes and once you hit the mark(in this case 4717 etc.) mastery will once again reign supreme which is why you should only stack haste when you know you can reach the next haste break point and try and keep your haste as close to the haste breakpoint you are going for and put the rest into mastery, that way mastery maintains its value.
    Last edited by almara2512; 2012-11-24 at 10:25 PM.

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