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  1. #141
    Quote Originally Posted by Alyssa View Post
    The really didn't cater to me though, if they had tried to do so they would have gone back to linear raiding with attunements...
    And they would have lost even more subs IMO. Again, they even mocked casuals in a public blog.

    The point is, they tried to cater to your group and they made the worst expansion in WoW's history.

    I think MoP will do better since they are not aiming at a single specific group. Only time will tell.

  2. #142
    Quote Originally Posted by Vespian View Post
    No, the amount of raiders that completed the last raid instance has increased. see the difference?
    No no. Dragon Soul is the "MOST CLEARED RAID EVER". Not end-raid not hardest raid of tier. RAID EVER. See the difference?

  3. #143
    Quote Originally Posted by Vespian View Post
    Really? I might try "think" or..maybe "shit".



    They mocked bad players. Not casuals. Casuals don't have to be bad, they just have less time. That said, after mocking them, they still tuned down the instances.
    I dont get your point, care to explain it further?

  4. #144
    Brewmaster redruMPanda's Avatar
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    MoP is amazing! Don't care what haters have to say bc haters gonna hate. TBC was an amazing expansion as was wotlk, but I have to say MoP is a return to the old WoW I fell in love with 8 years ago. The questing is amazing, the dungeons aren't boring, the addition of the new dailies are just fantastic, and I've yet to find something I don't like.

  5. #145
    Quote Originally Posted by Shinzai View Post
    No no. Dragon Soul is the "MOST CLEARED RAID EVER". Not end-raid not hardest raid of tier. RAID EVER. See the difference?
    Yes! it's the most cleared raid ever. WHERE DOES IT SAY that this PROVES that there are MORE raiders?

    Quote Originally Posted by Crashdummy View Post
    I dont get your point, care to explain it further?
    Simple. I'm a good player. I'm also someone that has a lot of work, study, you name it. So, I play less. I am a casual gamer. I do not, however, have any issues with any content or concept of a raid.
    Last edited by Vespian; 2012-10-04 at 01:47 PM.

  6. #146
    Quote Originally Posted by Vespian View Post
    Yes! it's the most cleared raid ever. WHERE DOES IT SAY that this PROVES that there are MORE raiders?
    To be counted as a raider you have to clear content. I stated this already. Being a dungeon runner who wanders into raids some times does not = raider.

    Unless you're saying that they're just not catering for the people who can't actually raid, but try to anyway. What people are you talking about at this point?

  7. #147
    Quote Originally Posted by Shinzai View Post
    Cata had less players than TBC.
    Correct.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shinzai View Post
    More people cleared DS than any raid ever - stated by Blizzard, based on their internal server statistics.
    No one is arguing anything else either.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shinzai View Post
    So therefore the number of raiders has irrefutably increased. I still don't understand how this can be argued.
    This is where you go wrong, 20% of the players cleared DS, now we can assume that no one failed at doing so due to being carried in LFR which gives us 20% of the WoW population raided.

    Now lets go to TBC, the only number we have here is that 5% did Sunwell, that only tells us that 5% made it to the arguably hardest instance Blizzard ever made, without having the numbers from the other raids we can't compare it to DS as there was raiders in Karazhan, TK/SC, ZA, Hyjal and BT as well as Sunwell when the expansion ended due to the linear nature of progression.

    Without those numbers we can't know how many actually raided in TBC hence can't compare it to the 20% we know from Cata, can't make it much clearer than that.

    Edit: If 19% cleared Karazhan then TBC had more raiders due to the 3 million higher subscriber count.
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  8. #148
    Quote Originally Posted by Shinzai View Post
    To be counted as a raider you have to clear content.
    What? You have to clear content to be a raider? What kind of moronic point of view is that?

    We're talking top of the fucking line instance clear versus easiest fucking raid in LFR mode ever clear!!! And you decide that people that cleared all other instances, but not SW, are not raiders? You mental?

  9. #149
    Quote Originally Posted by Shinzai View Post
    To be counted as a raider you have to clear content. I stated this already. Being a dungeon runner who wanders into raids some times does not = raider.
    Can't compare it that way either, in BC you could actually fail to clear raids, that some one failed to clear DS simply isn't believable.
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  10. #150
    Quote Originally Posted by Vespian View Post
    Simple. I'm a good player. I'm also someone that has a lot of work, study, you name it. So, I play less. I am a casual gamer. I do not, however, have any issues with any content or concept of a raid.
    I understood that part, let me make myself more clear:

    Really? I might try "think" or..maybe "shit".
    That's what i didnt understand. Care to explain that any further?

    Also, they mocked casuals, since the biggest whine at that time was not difficulty, but lenght of dungeons, but apparently you think otherwise, which is your right of course. I strongly disagree with you. I had completed every heroic at that time, and i felt mocked with it, because instead of asnwering the valid complaints people were giving they just said L2P even when peolpe WERE actually completing the heroics.

  11. #151
    Quote Originally Posted by Vespian View Post
    What? You have to clear content to be a raider? What kind of moronic point of view is that?

    We're talking top of the fucking line instance clear versus easiest fucking raid in LFR mode ever clear!!! And you decide that people that cleared all other instances, but not SW, are not raiders? You mental?
    Ok, so I have to count people who pugged Shannox just for his epics as raiders. Riiiight. Cata now has the most raiders ever, regardless. Also we'll have to include people that didn't finish LFR or Normal DS. This just keeps pushing the numbers up.

  12. #152
    Quote Originally Posted by Alyssa View Post
    Edit: If 19% cleared Karazhan then TBC had more raiders due to the 3 million higher subscriber count.
    For many of us an MMO that keeps some people doing the same raid for 2 years is unnaceptable.

  13. #153
    Quote Originally Posted by Crashdummy View Post
    I understood that part, let me make myself more clear:



    That's what i didnt understand. Care to explain that any further?
    I misunderstood your post. I thought you wanted to point out that I THINK was being said. and think is never a good way to state a fact

    Quote Originally Posted by Shinzai View Post
    Ok, so I have to count people who pugged Shannox just for his epics as raiders. Riiiight. Cata now has the most raiders ever, regardless. Also we'll have to include people that didn't finish LFR or Normal DS. This just keeps pushing the numbers up.
    No, you have to stop pretending you know better. LFR = pugging. If you count LFR (the majority of that 20% of yours), but not people that pugged random raids (note; raids) during tBC (without an LFR mind you), you are fundamentally wrong and purposely trying to turn the facts your way.
    Last edited by Vespian; 2012-10-04 at 02:00 PM.

  14. #154
    Quote Originally Posted by Crashdummy View Post
    For many of us an MMO that keeps some people doing the same raid for 2 years is unnaceptable.
    Perhaps you should invest in more skills as a gamer then, really, no one forced you to do Kara for 2 years, besides that wasn't what I said at all, people who cleared other raids probably cleared Kara on the way, it's the only raid in BC content that was as accessible as DS though.
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  15. #155
    Quote Originally Posted by Vespian View Post
    I misunderstood your post. I thought you wanted to point out that I THINK was being said. and think is never a good way to state a fact
    Ahh, now i understand the confusion. ok then.

  16. #156
    Quote Originally Posted by Vespian View Post
    No, you have to stop pretending you know better. LFR = pugging. If you count LFR (the majority of that 20% of yours), but not people that pugged random raids (note; raids) during tBC (without an LFR mind you), you are fundamentally wrong and purposely trying to turn the facts your way.
    Can you prove that? I still don't know what the hell you're basing your "TBC had more raiders" concept on. There are more raid guilds in WotLK and Cata than there ever were in TBC.

  17. #157
    Quote Originally Posted by Alyssa View Post
    Perhaps you should invest in more skills as a gamer then, really, no one forced you to do Kara for 2 years, besides that wasn't what I said at all, people who cleared other raids probably cleared Kara on the way, it's the only raid in BC content that was as accessible as DS though.

    Ok there is a series of misunderstandings here. I never said i was 2 years in Kara, i was replying to you saying that if 19% of people cleared Cata then it TBC had more raiders. While that might be true, its also sad that a lot of people never cleared anything else than kara and maybe ZA in a whole two years.

    Now, with that sad truth Blizzard can say, screw them, they should learn to play and we will continue to tune our game higher or...

    They can say: we are making content that only 5% of our players can clear it, while a lot others are trying and failing, maybe our tuning is too high.

    They chose the second one, i would have made the same. therefore why i said many of us thinking that having people doing the same raid 2 years is unacceptable.

    If i understood your points well, you woulod have took the first choice, which means that to you, having a lot of people locked in one raid for two years is fine because "they need to L2P".

    I dont think we will ever agree on this subject.

  18. #158
    Quote Originally Posted by Shinzai View Post
    There are more raid guilds in WotLK and Cata than there ever were in TBC.
    Because pure 10man guilds have nothing to do with that at all amirite...
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  19. #159
    Quote Originally Posted by Alyssa View Post
    Because pure 10man guilds have nothing to do with that at all amirite...
    Still more total people. Next?

  20. #160
    Herald of the Titans T Man's Avatar
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    MoP is pretty much the best parts of TBC wrapped into the current game.

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