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  1. #1

    Will I Ever Get Another WoW/TBC?

    Hello. Let me preface this by saying that I'm a casual, non-elitist raider. In TBC, I only saw a little bit of SSC and TK even during Sunwell era, mainly because I didn't have too much time and I enjoyed playing in a casual guild with my friends.

    The multi-tier raiding vs difficulty modes comes up way too much here, so I won't argue for a TBC system, although I much prefer it, and I believe that it really benefits everyone if executed correctly. But my question is, will we ever see a game like vanilla or TBC? I know people say that Rift is, but the game itself is so much less smooth than WoW that it's really hard for me to play. I would give anything to play something like that again... every week, going into Kara, feeling so accomplished when I finally saw the later bosses, even though I was near last on my server. At the time, I never even considered entering BT, and I looked at the people in T6 with awe. And that was a lot better for me than killing the last boss easily, and slowly progressing through the same thing again. Even for a casual raider, it seems so much less meaningful. To me, BT was not wasted even though only 5% ever saw it, because it sure as hell kept me loving the game, just because it existed.

    Is this type of game possible with the mindset of current LFR raiders? Will this type of game be able to succeed in this day and age, or is it impossible when most gamers feel they are entitled to see all of the content that Blizzard makes? Every new MMO, I hope that it will happen again, and it never does. I have little faith in "project Titan", because it's looking to be F2P, and will probably be a casual moneymaker, knowing blizz. Is this type of raiding system, and game as a whole, ever going to happen again?

  2. #2
    possibly; but not from blizzard
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  3. #3
    Not by any other company than Blizzard, and why should they go back when they want to move their game forward?

  4. #4
    let me tell you a story about people from "my" realm EU Vashj.
    Players that do not play more than once a week and logout after 30 minutes, are those who are talking about how realm is empty and they blame blizzard or whatever instead of blaming themselves. They start comparing Vashj with Kazzak for example or any other full realm. I have neer seen a person that is online a lot asking why is realm empty or complaining about it.
    My entire guild transfered back in ToC time to Vashj from Burning Legion which was full-type realm and we came to Vashj and stayed here. Why? because we are raiding guild. Raiding is what we are doing here in this game. When we zone into the raid area, it doesn't matter from which realm we came, low pop, high pop, full, locked... We play for ourselves, not for others.

    Why I wrote this? People are different. People play for different goals. Some play for tons of money, some to kill bosses, some to get best gear, some to be top dps, some to play with "friends"... Like that, some people liked Vanila, some TBC, some liked WotLK, some liked Cata...
    i personaly think that wow was too undeveloped in Vanila raiding system. In TBC it was brought to a whole different level which was evolving and peaking till ICC and it was perfected in DS. Content is easy? It's not when you don't have a good guild to raid with.
    I was stuck in Karazhan for a year and two months because I didn't have good guild. When I got recruited by a different guild, I was topping in BT and SWP with Karazhan gear. Which tells that this game is all about synergy and teamwork which is, by my measurments working so well so far.

  5. #5
    Loved TBC.

    Being a raider back then actually meant something and gave you that sort of a "i am unique" kind of feeling. When you were recognized by the gear u were wearing, not just a recolor of a normal mode set. Bring the class, not the player also gave me that unique feeling for some reason as well.

    Dunno, SWTOR gave me that feeling when i was playing it. I did quit it though, but going to give it another go soon.

  6. #6
    I thought Blizzard wanted to move forward...

    Going backwards to a time when guilds were nothing more than a stepping stone and whole scores of people were "left below" doesn't seem like a good idea.

  7. #7
    Bloodsail Admiral Giants41's Avatar
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    You just gotta believeeeeeeee!!
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  8. #8
    I agree that when Blizzard says "We develop so much content, but only the top 5% get to see it" they don't take into account all the players that swoon over those top 5 players and like to see them run around in cool gear.

    That being said, challenge modes are where the gear showoffs are going to be nowadays anyways. And as far as raiding goes, the different between a normal geared mage and a heroic geared mage with legendary is quite big. I show off my epeen in LFR all the time when I'm helping friends.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Strah View Post
    Loved TBC.

    Being a raider back then actually meant something and gave you that sort of a "i am unique" kind of feeling. When you were recognized by the gear u were wearing, not just a recolor of a normal mode set. Bring the class, not the player also gave me that unique feeling for some reason as well.

    Dunno, SWTOR gave me that feeling when i was playing it. I did quit it though, but going to give it another go soon.
    But barely anyone raided in BC. The majority of the subs were very new to the game, so raiding never crossed anyone's mind. And people that did couldn't for reasons such as not being good enough or just not having the insane time needed. Blizzard looked at the numbers at the end of the day and saw barely anyone raided and being that World of Warcraft is and will always be a PVE game first, they changed raiding so more people could experience it. Those days are longggg gone man, longgg gone. MMO's have evolved way too much since those days. A lot of other MMO's have been released because they saw how much potential and profit an MMO can be and have copied that BC model, but it just doesn't work anymore. And if it does, the game is free.

    People need to get over the nostalgia of BC. It was good times, but it's over. Forever. Either play the game or quit if you hate the direction of the game. Personally I love the direction. Everyone can experience raiding, unlike the past. It's much more fun.

  10. #10
    Herald of the Titans Arganis's Avatar
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    Maybe when it's time for Sargeras and Blizz is desperate for subs after the MoP / ? mega-flop.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by VladimirM View Post
    snip.
    just wanted to thank you for a wonderful, well-thought out post

    People still -could- progress like they used to ... but people tend to take the path of least resistance. So you could blame human nature for the problem.

    Lots of players now, want instant gratification. No, not talking about LFR. I'm talking about players that can't be arsed to help build a core group. Those who want to find a group of strangers that have downed everything, and believe they are so badass they can jump in and get loot. There is no dedication any longer.

    This problem is why you don't see a lot of 25m guilds any longer. It takes time to get 25 people to 'synergize' as Vlad stated. This is exactly why LFR groups can fail. Communication and knowledge of each other makes a huge difference.

    My wife and I tanked together. When we first started, we would call out stuff, then, we slowly stopped. We were good enough that I wasn't even in vent any longer, she would be, but there was no need for me to be. I knew when to brez, I knew when to taunt ... I knew when healers didn't have cds and I had to blow all mine. It comes with time and experience with your co-guildmates, knowing their class, their abilities, and their tendancies on when they use stuff. If you really know your group, and the fights, vent is just for joking after kills, and stays silent during fights.

    Do you see much of that any longer? No. People want to progress as fast as possible, with no effort, so they can be done with the content as fast as possible and sit in SW/Org and bitch how content doesn't come out fast enough. If you aren't in competition for world/realm firsts ... why do you need to rush the groups progression? Why not let it happen and enjoy yourself in the process. I find when you relax, and have fun, the atmosphere is more conducive to progression than everyone getting their panties in a wad because they can't get this heroic boss down you are undergeared for. Wipe for an hour, fine, but then move on if you aren't a world/realm first type guild. The gear and practice with the basic mechanics will mean more for you in the long run than people rage quitting or getting so frustrated their ability to execute starts to degrade.


    I've been in some near realm first kills back in the day, but I've also been with people who just had fun, but hit a brick wall on a certain boss ... but were friends so it was fun and no one threw temper tantrums or quit over it. I had more fun with the ones I wiped with on nominal, outdated bosses than the nerd ragers in the progressive guilds.


    If you are patient, keep looking for a guild that suits your playstyle and desires. First though, find what type of playstyle truly makes you happy ... you might find, being in a world/realm first guild may not be for you, or it may be the only way you can enjoy it. I guarantee though, if you are in a world first type of guild, you can't be a loot whore, because they decide who gets what for the better of the guild ... and don't give a shit about your epeen. These people perform at a level most can't even fathom, though everyone thinks they know. They beat shit without the gear ... gear is a means to an end, not the reason for raiding.

    maybe i'm full of shit though, up to you to decide

    ---------- Post added 2012-09-15 at 09:50 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Arganis View Post
    Maybe when it's time for Sargeras and Blizz is desperate for subs after the MoP / ? mega-flop.
    MoP is good, you must've not been on the beta ... it isn't perfect, but better than cata imo. the BC/Wrath peak will never return, it can never be that game again

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by sTyLnK View Post
    But barely anyone raided in BC. The majority of the subs were very new to the game, so raiding never crossed anyone's mind. And people that did couldn't for reasons such as not being good enough or just not having the insane time needed. Blizzard looked at the numbers at the end of the day and saw barely anyone raided and being that World of Warcraft is and will always be a PVE game first, they changed raiding so more people could experience it. Those days are longggg gone man, longgg gone. MMO's have evolved way too much since those days. A lot of other MMO's have been released because they saw how much potential and profit an MMO can be and have copied that BC model, but it just doesn't work anymore. And if it does, the game is free.

    People need to get over the nostalgia of BC. It was good times, but it's over. Forever. Either play the game or quit if you hate the direction of the game. Personally I love the direction. Everyone can experience raiding, unlike the past. It's much more fun.
    Those were good times, and they are indeed gone. And i did quit this game and i am never coming back not only due to the game feeling too casual now, but also due to the fact that the plot is going fuck knows where.
    Not sure why you're saying the BC model doesn't work anymore. There's not a single game on the market that is following that model, and TBC was the time when WoW had the most subs, followed by early wotlk.

  13. #13
    To be honest, the closest thing you'll probably ever get to TBC these days is RIFT.

  14. #14
    Nope, we won't see another TBC or WoW. The days of playing 24/7 are over which is a good thing.
    Rufflesaurus <Huhuholics> Tarren Mill EU





  15. #15
    Moderator Remilia's Avatar
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    If there's a progression server for EQ1, (no idea if 2 existed) you could try that. Not exactly going to fit everyone's taste however.
    Basically how it works is it goes from expansion to expansion (or whatever content / patch) and continues to go on until it gets to the last area. Sometimes done by server vote after an elapsed duration, or after a certain period of time / event.

    So think of it as WoW vanilla, and after a month, a server vote will occur whether to progress to the next part, like opening up BWL or something as an example. Then it'll continue on like that.

  16. #16
    WoW is dead! Blizzard destroyed the MMO Genre completly for Hardcore-Gamers! WoW is now only a Pet-Simulator and 3D-Chat...


    Non-constructive game-bashing.
    Last edited by Sj; 2012-09-16 at 04:00 PM.

  17. #17
    Bump because I'm already bored with MoP.



    Don't bump unless you have something to contribute.
    Last edited by Sj; 2012-10-02 at 02:59 AM.

  18. #18
    Legendary! Evil Inside's Avatar
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    Raids havent been released yet and you're already looking to jump ship?
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  19. #19
    Mechagnome kamikaze148's Avatar
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    They need a healthy mix of the two structures imo. I agree, the days of 24/7 gaming to be raid ready, and having a high skill cap to even see content are long long gone, but i agree...they need to have the tiered structure of raiding back aka TBC.

    An ideal structure should be:

    Normal Mode/Quest Gear---Heroic Blue Gear---Entry level raid gear---Second Tier Raid gear---Third Tier Raid gear---Final Raid and so on blah blah blah, and only once they have reached the gear requirements from the previous level content, should they be able to advance to the next raid.

    Players shouldnt be able in my opinion be able to queue up for the third tier raid or last tier raid rocking around in purple heroic farmed gear mid expansion, and vice versa, they shouldnt be held back from progressing past the entry level raid, aka Karazhan in TBC based on the steep increase in time/gear/skill requirement. there needs to be a healthy compromise of the two.

    Aka raid progression, not raid entitlement because LFR lets you through.

  20. #20
    There is....another

    WildStar. Some of the original WoW devs are behind it. I'll give you the one quote from the lead dev that gives me hope this will be something more than yet another casual-oriented MMO:

    “We don’t walk a tightrope: we’re very willing to throw ourselves right off it. It’s the hardcore that matters in the long haul. If you don’t appeal to the hardcore, you’ve got no one to get up to the high level. It’s not us, you know? We’re hardcore gamers. First and foremost it’s to appeal to those complex gamers, those players that want the depth, and if we can make it so we’re not scaring off players that are new to it, rock on. That’s cool by us.
    Most important are the gamers. But we’re important too. If we get bored of our game we’ll make a crap game. There’s no tightrope: it’s hardcore first, honestly.






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