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  1. #21
    Legendary! vindicatorx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Pro View Post
    Hello. Let me preface this by saying that I'm a casual, non-elitist raider. In TBC, I only saw a little bit of SSC and TK even during Sunwell era, mainly because I didn't have too much time and I enjoyed playing in a casual guild with my friends.


    Is this type of game possible with the mindset of current LFR raiders? Will this type of game be able to succeed in this day and age, or is it impossible when most gamers feel they are entitled to see all of the content that Blizzard makes? Every new MMO, I hope that it will happen again, and it never does. I have little faith in "project Titan", because it's looking to be F2P, and will probably be a casual moneymaker, knowing blizz. Is this type of raiding system, and game as a whole, ever going to happen again?
    I am going to bite on this one though I feel I shouldn't really have to. If you want a personal challenge then don't use LFR, it is optional after all. I think you and I have very different memories of what BC was I was a raider in a half assed guild on a low population server. We had a few good players and a lot of bad ones. Everytime we started to actually progress in TK or SSC BAM we lost 2 people and had to find replacements. That meant running nothing but Kara over and over for several weeks to ensure everyone was fully geared and we would go back into progression mode and BAM again we lose 2 people. Now, I realize people on a high population server can make outrageous requirements for entry into a guild but what happens when no one meets those expectations? You lower them until you can find people to fill those spots and when you have a limited pool of possible people that means sometimes you have to scrape the bottom of the barrel. I love LFR I don't have time to commit to a steady raid group, and my server doesn't pug. I'm not xferring off either so LFR allows me to quickly see the content and be on my way with no commitment to anyone else. I hope we never see a BC style expansion again because to people like me this would be taking 2 steps back.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by kamikaze148 View Post
    They need a healthy mix of the two structures imo. I agree, the days of 24/7 gaming to be raid ready, and having a high skill cap to even see content are long long gone, but i agree...they need to have the tiered structure of raiding back aka TBC.

    An ideal structure should be:

    Normal Mode/Quest Gear---Heroic Blue Gear---Entry level raid gear---Second Tier Raid gear---Third Tier Raid gear---Final Raid and so on blah blah blah, and only once they have reached the gear requirements from the previous level content, should they be able to advance to the next raid.

    Players shouldnt be able in my opinion be able to queue up for the third tier raid or last tier raid rocking around in purple heroic farmed gear mid expansion, and vice versa, they shouldnt be held back from progressing past the entry level raid, aka Karazhan in TBC based on the steep increase in time/gear/skill requirement. there needs to be a healthy compromise of the two.

    Aka raid progression, not raid entitlement because LFR lets you through.
    Yeah, I'm pretty sure Rift does it that way. Each tier has a specific +Hit requirement to get into the next. So you have to gear up progressively. Really neat in my opinion, I too hate the fact that in WoW you don't have to progess...just wait until the new content opens up.
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  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by The Pro View Post
    Hello. Let me preface this by saying that I'm a casual, non-elitist raider. In TBC, I only saw a little bit of SSC and TK even during Sunwell era, mainly because I didn't have too much time and I enjoyed playing in a casual guild with my friends.

    The multi-tier raiding vs difficulty modes comes up way too much here, so I won't argue for a TBC system, although I much prefer it, and I believe that it really benefits everyone if executed correctly. But my question is, will we ever see a game like vanilla or TBC? I know people say that Rift is, but the game itself is so much less smooth than WoW that it's really hard for me to play. I would give anything to play something like that again... every week, going into Kara, feeling so accomplished when I finally saw the later bosses, even though I was near last on my server. At the time, I never even considered entering BT, and I looked at the people in T6 with awe. And that was a lot better for me than killing the last boss easily, and slowly progressing through the same thing again. Even for a casual raider, it seems so much less meaningful. To me, BT was not wasted even though only 5% ever saw it, because it sure as hell kept me loving the game, just because it existed.

    Is this type of game possible with the mindset of current LFR raiders? Will this type of game be able to succeed in this day and age, or is it impossible when most gamers feel they are entitled to see all of the content that Blizzard makes? Every new MMO, I hope that it will happen again, and it never does. I have little faith in "project Titan", because it's looking to be F2P, and will probably be a casual moneymaker, knowing blizz. Is this type of raiding system, and game as a whole, ever going to happen again?
    Didn't read the thread, really don't care what you have to say. Everyone pays the same amount of money for the game, so everyone deserves to see the same content. If I buy a game and play it on Easy difficulty, I normally see exactly the same content as someone who plays on Hard, even though the person on Hard has probably accomplished a lot more. You know the reason TBC was so good? Because no one fucking made QQ threads 24/7 about how the expansion was shit and too casual and everything Blizzard implements is bad. Fuck sake, just quit the game already if you're so sad about it.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Nzx View Post
    Everyone pays the same amount of money for the game, so everyone deserves to see the same content.
    That would be just fine if Blizzard didn't nerf content to reuse it as additional content, it deprives the better players of their content in favor of herding the lesser skilled though the same content over and over to keep them occupied.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nzx View Post
    You know the reason TBC was so good?
    Linear raiding, rep grinds, mats grinds to craft good items, simply things to do and and far reached goals to aim for, something that was lost after BC with segmented progression and easy epics.
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  5. #25
    Titan Adam Jensen's Avatar
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    No.

    Clearly the more casual the content, the higher number of subscribers they achieve, thus there's more money in making more accessible raiding.

    If a video game developer removed tumors from players, they'd whine about nerfing their loss in weight and access to radiation powers. -Cracked.com

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by orissa View Post
    No.

    Clearly the more casual the content, the higher number of subscribers they achieve, thus there's more money in making more accessible raiding.
    Except the fact that WoW peeked it's subscriber numbers towards the end of BC through the beginning of Wrath.
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  7. #27
    Titan PizzaSHARK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Pro View Post
    Hello. Let me preface this by saying that I'm a casual, non-elitist raider. In TBC, I only saw a little bit of SSC and TK even during Sunwell era, mainly because I didn't have too much time and I enjoyed playing in a casual guild with my friends.

    The multi-tier raiding vs difficulty modes comes up way too much here, so I won't argue for a TBC system, although I much prefer it, and I believe that it really benefits everyone if executed correctly. But my question is, will we ever see a game like vanilla or TBC? I know people say that Rift is, but the game itself is so much less smooth than WoW that it's really hard for me to play. I would give anything to play something like that again... every week, going into Kara, feeling so accomplished when I finally saw the later bosses, even though I was near last on my server. At the time, I never even considered entering BT, and I looked at the people in T6 with awe. And that was a lot better for me than killing the last boss easily, and slowly progressing through the same thing again. Even for a casual raider, it seems so much less meaningful. To me, BT was not wasted even though only 5% ever saw it, because it sure as hell kept me loving the game, just because it existed.

    Is this type of game possible with the mindset of current LFR raiders? Will this type of game be able to succeed in this day and age, or is it impossible when most gamers feel they are entitled to see all of the content that Blizzard makes? Every new MMO, I hope that it will happen again, and it never does. I have little faith in "project Titan", because it's looking to be F2P, and will probably be a casual moneymaker, knowing blizz. Is this type of raiding system, and game as a whole, ever going to happen again?
    Seems unlikely. The big money lately is in F2P titles (which is why Titan is probably gonna be planned to be F2P), and those titles aren't successful by being mind-breakingly difficult.

    Maybe an indie outfit could develop something that you could get your fix from, even if it wouldn't be a true persistent MMO.
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  8. #28
    I think you're after rift bro.
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  9. #29
    The Patient
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    Why I wrote this? People are different. People play for different goals. Some play for tons of money, some to kill bosses, some to get best gear, some to be top dps, some to play with "friends"... Like that, some people liked Vanila, some TBC, some liked WotLK, some liked Cata...
    i personaly think that wow was too undeveloped in Vanila raiding system.
    Give this guy a cookie! I wish people could understand this. I liked B.C....Apart from the fact that half the class's in the game was brokenat that time.
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  10. #30
    i want a good hardcore rpg that has the charm and polish of wow. probably will never happen

  11. #31
    Titan PizzaSHARK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reclaimer View Post
    Give this guy a cookie! I wish people could understand this. I liked B.C....Apart from the fact that half the class's in the game was brokenat that time.
    I'd still be playing WoW if they went back to the Ulduar era where the difference between normal and hard was something you did during a fight, rather than arbitrarily hitting a button before entering.

    PvP was the best it's ever been during the Ulduar era, too :-/
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    The best you people can do is throw insults and lay your perspective on what a real adult is onto me but I will continue to reject them. And you will try and try again, force me into submission but I will continue to press on.
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  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by madethisfor1post View Post
    I thought Blizzard wanted to move forward...

    Going backwards to a time when guilds were nothing more than a stepping stone and whole scores of people were "left below" doesn't seem like a good idea.
    The OP was someone who was "left below". He liked it. So did millions of other people. It's the reason why tBC continued the trend of gaining insane amounts of subscriptions and all the following expansions didn't.

    tBC PvE + Wrath post s5 PvP = win.

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-02 at 07:15 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Reclaimer View Post
    Give this guy a cookie! I wish people could understand this. I liked B.C....Apart from the fact that half the class's in the game was brokenat that time.
    And yet nobody cared. Very VERY few people cared to be competitive. They went ahead and played "broken" classes and "broken" specs. They also aspired to be better which meant sucking it up and going into the competitive spec which most people were perfectly fine with.

    The only issue tBC had was guild sniping for better players.
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  13. #33
    Titan PizzaSHARK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flaks View Post
    The OP was someone who was "left below". He liked it. So did millions of other people. It's the reason why tBC continued the trend of gaining insane amounts of subscriptions and all the following expansions didn't.

    tBC PvE + Wrath post s5 PvP = win.
    I think you meant "Ulduar era = win." It's okay, sometimes people get confused.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    The best you people can do is throw insults and lay your perspective on what a real adult is onto me but I will continue to reject them. And you will try and try again, force me into submission but I will continue to press on.
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  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Flaks View Post
    The only issue tBC had was guild sniping for better players.
    It wasn't an issue then more than it is now, Blizzard loves to claim that it was an issue though as it justified their transition to segmented raiding. Almost every major change since BC is catered towards casual, less skilled, insta gratification players, basically catering to the players they didn't have already, something that hasn't helped them judging by subscriber numbers.
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  15. #35
    Been parroting this the game came out.

    RIFT RIFT RIFT RIFT RIFT RIFT RIFT RIFT RIFT RIFT RIFT RIFT RIFT RIFT RIFT RIFT RIFT RIFT RIFT and RIFT

  16. #36
    Warchief Henkdejager's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Pro View Post
    Bump because I'm already bored with MoP.



    Don't bump unless you have something to contribute.
    raids haven't bin released and season either what are u qqing about ?
    Stuff

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Nzx View Post
    Didn't read the thread, really don't care what you have to say. Everyone pays the same amount of money for the game, so everyone deserves to see the same content. If I buy a game and play it on Easy difficulty, I normally see exactly the same content as someone who plays on Hard, even though the person on Hard has probably accomplished a lot more. You know the reason TBC was so good? Because no one fucking made QQ threads 24/7 about how the expansion was shit and too casual and everything Blizzard implements is bad. Fuck sake, just quit the game already if you're so sad about it.
    It doesn't work like that. The game is not 100% pay to win (yet). You have to put effort in if you want to progress your char, but people like you can't grasp that concept.

  18. #38
    The Lightbringer Tarien's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nzx View Post
    Everyone pays the same amount of money for the game, so everyone deserves to see the same content.
    Wrong. You deserve the same chance to see the same content, whether you see it or not is down to you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nzx View Post
    Fuck sake, just quit the game already if you're so sad about it.
    I did, and so did three million other people this last year and a half. Now I play RIFT which is just like TBC in terms of the difficulty and raid tiering, but with a developer that works ten times as hard. And I love it ;D
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  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by muchtoohigh View Post
    There is....another

    WildStar. Some of the original WoW devs are behind it. I'll give you the one quote from the lead dev that gives me hope this will be something more than yet another casual-oriented MMO:
    This was interesting, thank you for sharing it.

  20. #40
    I was pretty much the same as you for half TBC, I was also a casual who didn't mind at all to not see all content as I simply did put time in it...I thought I didn't deserve to see it, just like I deserved I didn't deserve to see DW when I can back in 4.3...only this time I did see the endboss and felt dissapointed.

    When I wanted to see all raids, I put effort into raiding and I got as far as half Sunwell wich I felt was good enough for the time I put into the game. Sadly just because the gear scaling alone it is very hard to do this. In TBC your dps went up with 100-400 max if you raided endgame, now it scales so high in gear that every item previous to the new content is just shit.

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