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  1. #41
    Pit Lord
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    TBC was good times. The game moved on and so should you.
    ^ The above should be taken with two grains of salt and a fistful of "chill the F* out".

  2. #42
    Moderator Sj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nzx View Post
    Because no one fucking made QQ threads 24/7 about how the expansion was shit and too casual and everything Blizzard implements is bad.
    You're kidding right?

    "25's are ez mode"
    "omg welfare epics"
    "nothing will ever top naxx/AQ"
    "gg blizz replacing my epics with greens"


    There has always been a vocal contingent in WoW decrying anything that changes and moves people out of their comfort zones. You can say the same about real life; it's human nature and that'll never change.

  3. #43
    Humm... The way I understand your post, you want to have a game where you are not able to do any raiding content, and then stick to worshiping people who get epic gear?

    Well, that is a strange wish... I prefer to be the one wearing epics myself, even if those epics are as common as gold.

    But anyway, if you really want this kind of game, I don't really think you will find it in WoW. To begin with, the hardcore were always minority, and to make things worse, people who used to be hardcore in the beginning have grown up, and now can´t afford to spend as much time as before in the game. It is just the natural course of things, nothing else. Blizzard did try to go back to a hardcore mindset in Cataclysm, and the result was a massive loss of subs.

    I would recomend Rift. They are enforcing the hardcore mindset in a efficient way... While this means the game will not pass, say, 500k number of subs, since the major casual playerbase will stay away from it, this is probably the intention of Trion, so if any game would remain "hardcore" for some time, I say that would be Rift.

    Can't really think of any other game...

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Madruga View Post
    To begin with, the hardcore were always minority, and to make things worse, people who used to be hardcore in the beginning have grown up, and now can´t afford to spend as much time as before in the game. It is just the natural course of things, nothing else.
    Yet WoW reached it's peek in BC, you're also assuming there would be no new hardcore gamers starting the game when other leave.

    Quote Originally Posted by Madruga View Post
    Blizzard did try to go back to a hardcore mindset in Cataclysm, and the result was a massive loss of subs.
    There where a multitude of reason why it wasn't done well, and they still kept the segmented progression with nerfs to herd the players through so it's not comparable, one of the major things that made BC great was the linear progression as it allowed people to have long term goals, a feeling of a much more persistent world than what segmented progression does.
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  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Madruga View Post
    Humm... The way I understand your post, you want to have a game where you are not able to do any raiding content, and then stick to worshiping people who get epic gear?

    Well, that is a strange wish... I prefer to be the one wearing epics myself, even if those epics are as common as gold.
    Actually, back in BC I saw a lot more raid content. Currently, LFR and hardmodes are being used a a separate tier, and the old content is essentially wasted for more casual raiders every time a new tier comes out.

    I don't want to worship anyone. I want incentive to progress, and that incentive comes from seeing new places, or killing new bosses that others haven't seen. I didn't worship the players, I worshiped what they were doing, and I wanted to do it too.

    These days, who cares if you're 3/8 HM or 4/8 HM? We've all seen it, on some level. It's a whole different experience to say, "I just killed the lurker below. And it was epic." Not that the kill was epic. Tough, down-to-the-wire boss fights can happen today. I mean the experience. The experience was epic. I think that most BC raiders will know what I'm saying. If you didn't raid back then, all I ask is that you please acknowledge that there could be some credence to this, for those who have experience it, before you write it off as wrong or unfair.

    P.S.... Alyssa, thanks for helping to explain my point.

    Off topic, but what are you playing these days? Still playing wow? Rift? I'm lost.
    Last edited by The Pro; 2012-10-03 at 02:00 AM.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by The Pro View Post
    Off topic, but what are you playing these days? Still playing wow? Rift? I'm lost.
    Mostly D3 with some Planetside 2 on the side, bored with most games at the moment though, might just return to EvE and possibly pick up Rift again with the X-pack.
    Active PoE: @MajorAsshole EvE: Redblade (Reikoku)
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  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Alyssa View Post
    That would be just fine if Blizzard didn't nerf content to reuse it as additional content, it deprives the better players of their content in favor of herding the lesser skilled though the same content over and over to keep them occupied.



    Linear raiding, rep grinds, mats grinds to craft good items, simply things to do and and far reached goals to aim for, something that was lost after BC with segmented progression and easy epics.
    I couldn't have said it better, I agree with every word of your post. Unfortunately Blizz will never go back to that again - they're now just trying to appeal to as many people as possible even though their subs are declining as a result, cause most of them don't stay subbed the entire expansion.

  8. #48
    Old God PizzaSHARK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by muchtoohigh View Post
    There is....another

    WildStar. Some of the original WoW devs are behind it. I'll give you the one quote from the lead dev that gives me hope this will be something more than yet another casual-oriented MMO:
    Be interesting to see if they actually put their money where their mouth is on this one. I already saw a clip about "friends and family" content; if they start raking in a bunch of money and see that that "easy mode" content is where the money is, are they still going to put it on the back burner in favor of more content for a minority of their players? Cash is one helluva drug.

    I signed up for the beta, anyway. Maybe I'll be able to get in and see for myself how they're going to run this thing. I like the bright, cartoony graphics, they're a welcome departure from the boring, "realistic" graphics other MMOs seem to favor. That rabbit/cat/whatever-girl character has rule 34 written, tattooed, and painted all over her, though, ugh.
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/PizzaSHARK
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    The best you people can do is throw insults and lay your perspective on what a real adult is onto me but I will continue to reject them. And you will try and try again, force me into submission but I will continue to press on.
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  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Strah View Post
    Those were good times, and they are indeed gone. And i did quit this game and i am never coming back not only due to the game feeling too casual now, but also due to the fact that the plot is going fuck knows where.
    Not sure why you're saying the BC model doesn't work anymore. There's not a single game on the market that is following that model, and TBC was the time when WoW had the most subs, followed by early wotlk.
    says bc was the best... says game is bad because of plot.... *head explodes*
    "I was a normal baby for 30 seconds, then ninjas stole my mamma" - Deadpool
    "so what do we do?" "well jack, you stand there and say 'gee rocket raccoon I'm so glad you brought that Unfeasibly large cannon with you..' and i go like this BRAKKA BRAKKA BRAKKA" - Rocket Raccoon

    FC: 3437-3046-3552

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Immitis View Post
    says bc was the best... says game is bad because of plot.... *head explodes*
    If personal tastes / opinions make your head explode it must be made of some really cheap material.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by sTyLnK View Post
    But barely anyone raided in BC. The majority of the subs were very new to the game, so raiding never crossed anyone's mind. And people that did couldn't for reasons such as not being good enough or just not having the insane time needed. Blizzard looked at the numbers at the end of the day and saw barely anyone raided and being that World of Warcraft is and will always be a PVE game first, they changed raiding so more people could experience it. Those days are longggg gone man, longgg gone. MMO's have evolved way too much since those days. A lot of other MMO's have been released because they saw how much potential and profit an MMO can be and have copied that BC model, but it just doesn't work anymore. And if it does, the game is free.

    People need to get over the nostalgia of BC. It was good times, but it's over. Forever. Either play the game or quit if you hate the direction of the game. Personally I love the direction. Everyone can experience raiding, unlike the past. It's much more fun.
    RED = no facts to back it up
    ORANGE = Irrelevant.

    To add, Blizzard gave more people access to high end dungeons, because they felt the need to cater more to the bad players, which is the majority, that kept demanding access on the official forums like rabid consumers tend to do.
    Last edited by Vespian; 2012-10-03 at 10:36 AM.

  12. #52
    Old God PizzaSHARK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vespian View Post
    RED = no facts to back it up
    ORANGE = Irrelevant.

    To add, Blizzard gave more people access to high end dungeons, because they felt the need to cater more to the bad players, which is the majority, that kept demanding access on the official forums like rabid consumers tend to do.
    What really turned me off to the whole thing isn't that Blizzard designed it so that everyone could see the same content, but that they designed it so that everyone gets the same rewards. Oh, sure, your Gurthalak is purple instead of red and has a little bit higher stats, but it's still a Gurthalak. Same with your armor - your Colossal Dragonplate might be yellow while mine's red, but it's still Colossal Dragonplate.

    I still like the idea of heroic dungeons rewarding blue gear, and then you'd have LFR difficulty ("free loot" difficulty) hand out the purples you would have gotten in heroics in the previous system.

    Then abolish the concept of there being a separate normal mode and heroic mode and instead take the Ulduar option where "heroic mode" is something activated during the actual encounter (or during the trash leading up to it) and has the boss drop additional equipment that only spawns when the "heroic mode" version is defeated. And, ideally, pick either 10 man or 25 man as your way of designing shit and scrap the other one.

    Essentially, I'd want a raiding system where there are only two real tiers of gear per content push - the heroic dungeon tier, and the raid tier. Loot dropped in LFR mode (the purples) would be between the heroic dungeon blues (which themselves would be equal to the previous raid tier's ilvl) and raid purples in ilvl; hard mode bonus loot would be the same ilvl as raid gear, but would be special in some way (maybe that's where the fun trinkets or proc-based weapons come from or something.)
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/PizzaSHARK
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    The best you people can do is throw insults and lay your perspective on what a real adult is onto me but I will continue to reject them. And you will try and try again, force me into submission but I will continue to press on.
    MMOC IRC!

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Xavas View Post
    If personal tastes / opinions make your head explode it must be made of some really cheap material.
    you must not know much about a little thing called retcons and ruined characters.
    "I was a normal baby for 30 seconds, then ninjas stole my mamma" - Deadpool
    "so what do we do?" "well jack, you stand there and say 'gee rocket raccoon I'm so glad you brought that Unfeasibly large cannon with you..' and i go like this BRAKKA BRAKKA BRAKKA" - Rocket Raccoon

    FC: 3437-3046-3552

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Immitis View Post
    you must not know much about a little thing called retcons and ruined characters.
    Ruined according to who exactly?

  15. #55
    Brewmaster Brittany's Avatar
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    I don't think so.

    The video game industry.. or even the whole entertainment industry has changed a lot since WoW was released.

    Its like people that still want magic in games to open locks and make you invisible instead of blast people. They're seen as outdated designs now. Something such as the Furlbog grind in WoW will probably never be done again because its seemed to be outdated and grind for the sake of grind.

  16. #56
    I have a question,

    If the game makes people so mad, than why pay and play it? By paying and playing, and than complaining about it 24/7 on blizzard forums and on mmochamp, you really diminish the fun positive posts that a lot of people have. Honestly, if I were running blizzard, I would have stopped making wow expansions awhile back because even though the complaints come from the vocal minority, they would still have an emotional toll on what I would be trying to publish. Its the same reason why bioware's founders left the company, because people were bashing so hard he couldn't take it emotionally anymore.

    And people who think that there were no complaints about TBC and that it was the golden age of wow are foolish. When TBC launched people HATED the fact that raids went from 40 man to 25 man. Guilds loathed it. Content honestly was really that much harder than it is today. The only thing that barred people from raiding was attunements and those were removed before WotLK. The only truly hard raid was SWP in my eyes. Illidan was a joke compared to some of the other bosses in BT. Honestly, T5 was harder than T6 in my eyes.

    But if the game doesn't fancy you anymore than why still play? Why still play and make another thread on mmo-champ about why you hate the direction of the game? There are already countless numbers of these threads. All these threads accomplish is the continuing negative stereotype of the PC gaming, and gaming community as a whole.
    Thank You Shyama for the sig again!!

  17. #57
    Legendary! vindicatorx's Avatar
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    I don't get the sudden Rift love the forums have been seeing just because they have a new expansion on the way doesn't mean the game won't still be the same ole boring game Rift has been since release. I fail to see how you feel Rift content is better. I hated the raids in Rift, the 5 mans are the same as in wow, PVP in it was terrible when I played.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Brittany View Post
    Something such as the Furlbog grind in WoW will probably never be done again because its seemed to be outdated and grind for the sake of grind.
    The problem with your logic here is that a grind like the old Furbolg and Winterspring trainers was totally optional content, same as Netherwing and Sha'tari Skyguard was in BC. People arguing that they don't want grinds like that for the most part do it because they want the reward but have no interest in the actual effort to get it, this in turn deprives people of content, especially people who like long term goals with a visible reward to show for it at the end of the long road.

    In short, it's an entitlement issue that has nothing to do with being outdated nor grind for grind sake.
    Active PoE: @MajorAsshole EvE: Redblade (Reikoku)
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  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Rorcanna View Post
    Not by any other company than Blizzard, and why should they go back when they want to move their game forward?
    1 step forward, 10 steps back...

  20. #60
    Sorry OP, but if we are lucky we wont see that chore again.

    MMO have evolved from the prehistorical ages of Vanilla and TBC. They were great games/expansion for their time, but the industry progressed from that time, there is no room for games like those in todays gaming..

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