Why is WoW moving away from raiding?

[Denpepe]

you are getting 2-3 raids this tier and you can still do 25's, you just want to force people to do things they don't want to just for the sake of gear, people will always try and get ahead by way of the least resistance. I don't see why a 25 man raid needs better gear to get people to do it, people need to do it because that's what they want to do and if all people who say they want to keep doing 25's do so there should be no shortage of 25 mans

I don't mind blizz making tougher raids and not nerfing them but then they should also provide easier raids which provide rewards for the less driven people , and what happens then is that the "hardcore" will also farm this content if it gets them ahead and complain they have too much to do while the others will be sadenned that there is content they can't do due to the difficulty, you can say what you want, ask what you want, you will never ever get 10 milion people happy with the direction the game takes, the only downside you have atm is that it's going in a way you don't like but hopefully for blizz the majority will like.

In an ideal world blizz would be able to cater to everyones tastes and needs (up to a point) but as it stands this does not seem possible and ass such blizz is using the assets they have to provide content useable to by as many people as possible. Naxx in vanilla was nice if you want, but I don't even know if any guild on my realm cleared the place, sure it was hard but also mostly unused same for most of the last raids in tbc they were supposedly all super awesome yet only 2-3 guild on my realm actually cleared sunwell and not many more BT or MH making a game that is hard for the 0.1% awesome players might be nice for those 0.1% but it's a complete waste for the 99.9% other players who also have a right to content and if you make something for them you also need rewards for them (which do not need to be on par with the raids, but still need to be better then the intial hc dungeon blues.)

I know LFR is kinda easy yet I have seen more then 1 raid fail on bosses to the point the raid fell apart due to incompetence of the tanks/healers or even dps recuirements that were not met as sad as that may be.

[shamental]

God my server must be 1 in a million then cuz people raid/pug every day.

[grexly75]

Also JPs/VPs should not be rewarded for completing 5 mans. JPs should drop from lower tier raids and VPs should drop from higher tier raids.

lol So you want to piss of the whole community even more? You do realize that the Badge of Justice system was first introduced in TBC and were gained from doing both heroic 5 man dungeons and raids. Then when WotLK came they converted them to Justice Points, and so on from there. But wanting to make JP's and VP's raid only not very smart not smart at all.

[Tomana]

This thread is new and original... or maybe not.
Wow won't go back to tiered raiding, get over it. Pouring money into content which most players wont experience is plzin silly - and business people tend to be good with numbers.

[zazuch]

For those of you who say 25 man raiding is dead its not. It is also getting more incentives(haven't read yet what) but from what i hear i think they are getting more loot to make it seem better per boss.

On another note as far as paragon if you actually read WHY they are going to 10 man. Its not because 10 man is easier difficulty wise or better its because a main chunk of there players stopped playing due to various reasons. Back before 10/25 were equal persay paragon would have just disbanded and died off. But not they can reform cut some extra weight and go in as a 10 man guild. My guild at the start of cata had to do this exact same thing(they ended up breaking up later in firelands due to a fracture in the guild but meh) Them having to go to 10 man is probably due to their requirements of having to speak Finnish(sp) which drastically reduces the top raiders they can get but still its not because 10 man is that much better its just was a easier option for them to do then to recruit 15-25 new people.

As far as tiered raids its just stupid. Its cool to go back if you want to go back to that tier BUT it is not fun to have to go back just to get a new recruit up to speed or if you take a break from wow. Having to spend weeks trying to form old content raids just to get up to speed with your friends/guildies. Being forced to do old content is not fun and that is what tiered raids due to guilds.

[Tarumuat]

I think raids got slightly better. Older ones had epic feeling, but then again I know people who joined in 4.3 and were absolutely blown away (in a good sense) by it. Now one of them is better raider than anyone I personally know. He even wants to join guilds that aim for world firsts. What I am saying is... it's your opinion man.

Baker: "In addition to loafs of bread and cake, we're now selling donuts! They're smaller than either but also tasty."
Normal Customer: "Yay!"

Baker: "In addition to loafs of bread and cake, we're now selling donuts! They're smaller than either but also tasty."
Herpaderp: "Why are you moving away from loafs?"

Thumbs up, like, +1, +100500

Also, I raid for many reasons. However, I do enjoy raid gear for questing, mob die quicker, assault other players etc.

[Alilei32]

Pet battles
Dailies
5 mans
Battlegrounds
Lower level content
Professions

They try to do something for everyone. No, they don't want you to quit (well, maybe you specifically, but not raiders in general.) They aren't going to cater to a minority group. Sorry, but that doesn't pay the bills. If the majority of the game doesn't raid, Blizzard isn't going to focus solely on raiding.

Where did I say cater to raiders? I even acknowledged I know we are a minority. I just would like to enjoy the game like everyone else. And right now I dont enjoy raiding the way it is. Also just because we are a minority why should we be left out? Just look at the history of raiding in WoW its obvious they are trying to phase us out.

[Tarumuat]

Where did I say cater to raiders? I even acknowledged I know we are a minority. I just would like to enjoy the game like everyone else. And right now I dont enjoy raiding the way it is. Also just because we are a minority why should we be left out? Just look at the history of raiding in WoW its obvious they are trying to phase us out.

They are not. Honestly not. You being quite paranoid.

In fact, Blizz thinks of LFR as success as it brought more people into raiding.

[Alilei32]

You say: "First of all why cant Blizzard accept that theres different levels of skill and commitment people are willing to put into raids.". And that really puzzles me. They DO accept it. Seems you want as a result to cut out people below your skill. But what they do is, they in fact accept that theres different levels of skill . That is why you have LFRaid, normals, heroics and eventually 5% to 30% nerfs.

3 levels of difficulty for the same raid isnt what I meant by skill level. Its still the same raid. What I mean was something along the lines of how it was during TBC. Where the less skilled people who didnt really care about progressing did tier 4 raids like Kara, the middle people who might progress started with tier 4 and progressed into tier 5s and either stayed there or decided to move into tier 6, then the hardcore raiders who wanted to stay on the cutting edge progressed though 4,5 and then farmed tier 6.

[Ohleemar]

Baker: "In addition to loafs of bread and cake, we're now selling donuts! They're smaller than either but also tasty."
Normal Customer: "Yay!"

Baker: "In addition to loafs of bread and cake, we're now selling donuts! They're smaller than either but also tasty."
Herpaderp: "Why are you moving away from loafs?"

This guy hit the nail on the head with this topic. OP has no idea what's going on.

[Liara]

Where did I say cater to raiders? I even acknowledged I know we are a minority. I just would like to enjoy the game like everyone else. And right now I dont enjoy raiding the way it is. Also just because we are a minority why should we be left out? Just look at the history of raiding in WoW its obvious they are trying to phase us out.

Is it? I'm not seeing it.

Just because raiding is handled differently these days does not mean they're sacking the concept and trying to get rid of raiders. Honestly, that claim makes no sense. Raiders are still paying customers. Why the hell would Blizzard try and phase them out?

[Alilei32]

In fact, Blizz thinks of LFR as success as it brought more people into raiding.

And how many of those people actually moved out of LFR and started doing normals and hardmodes. Id like to see a stat on that becase thats the only way to show if LFR really got non raiders interested in raiding. LFR was a joke and a child could complete it. To call it a raid is insulting.

[Thage]

3 levels of difficulty for the same raid isnt what I meant by skill level. Its still the same raid. What I mean was something along the lines of how it was during TBC. Where the less skilled people who didnt really care about progressing did tier 4 raids like Kara, the middle people who might progress started with tier 4 and progressed into tier 5s and either stayed there or decided to move into tier 6, then the hardcore raiders who wanted to stay on the cutting edge progressed though 4,5 and then farmed tier 6.

People didn't move into t5 and t6 because t5 and t6 guilds poached their best members, leaving them mired in t4 and t5 content constantly reattuning and regearing new members (only for the t5 guilds to poach from the t4 guilds because they got sick of doing that shit back when they were a t4 feeder guild). That is why Blizzard implemented the option to skip obsolete raids in favor of getting more people into the current raid tier, to discourage guild poaching/leapfrogging and to reduce the number of guilds that got frustrated and quit raiding entirely due to burnout from doing nothing but Kara/Mag/Gruul's and atuunement runs.

My, how quickly so-called raiders forget their own history...

[Liara]

And how many of those people actually moved out of LFR and started doing normals and hardmodes. Id like to see a stat on that becase thats the only way to show if LFR really got non raiders interested in raiding. LFR was a joke and a child could complete it. To call it a raid is insulting.

Maybe to you.

But I doubt those who don't have the time to be on a set raiding schedule beg to differ.

[Alilei32]

This guy hit the nail on the head with this topic. OP has no idea what's going on.

I dont? I think I do. Anyone who cant see what raids have become either didnt play anything prior to Wrath or just dont raid at all.

There is no more gear progression. I am correct
They combined 10/25 mans killing 25 man raiding. I am correct
They add 5 mans with better loot than previous tiered raids rendering them useless. I am correct
They only add one raid per new tier. I am correct

You might not agree with me, which is fine, but I didnt just make stuff up.

[Adam Jensen]

And how many of those people actually moved out of LFR and started doing normals and hardmodes. Id like to see a stat on that becase thats the only way to show if LFR really got non raiders interested in raiding. LFR was a joke and a child could complete it. To call it a raid is insulting.

You're taking this game a little too seriously if you're insulted.

[Alilei32]

Maybe to you.

But I doubt those who don't have the time to be on a set raiding schedule beg to differ.

There are guilds that raid at so many times and on different days I just dont buy that argument. I have logged in at 4am on a Thursday and seen a Dragon Soul raid forming up. The I dont have time or cant make a raid on a certain day argument doesnt work. Especially with the way lockouts are now so you can kill 2 bosses a night when you have time and still finish before reset.

[digme]

98% casual players
2% progressraiders

can be closed

[Ohleemar]

Raided since Vanilla. Still raid. Nice try, but you have no clue what's going on.

[Liara]

There are guilds that raid at so many times and on different days I just dont buy that argument. I have logged in at 4am on a Thursday and seen a Dragon Soul raid forming up.

Right, because 4am is exactly when everyone has the most time to raid.
But let's see how many guilds raid at 4pm. I'm guessing not that many.