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  1. #21
    At first, ArenaNet had in mind to not have levels at all in this game, but people found it confusig and said things such as; ''Why? What will I do? What's the purpose? No progress?'', so to not have people confused, they added levels anyway.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by zaxlor View Post
    Now, am I doing something wrong, or is Arenanet?
    It's you actually. Level [& more importantly gear] differences are not that great in GW2. Depending on personal skill one can comfortably take on mobs up to 5 levels higher, veterans 2-3 levels higher and champions about a level or so higher. On average.

    The game rewards better for doing so as well. There is even a tooltip telling you to take on higher level enemies for the bounty.

    Just because one is level 12 doesn't necessarily mean a level 15-25 zone is out of their league. For example, just today on my Warrior I was clearing Gendarran Fields as a level 23. Clearing level 27-30 mobs. I was rewarded with rare quality loot; a staff, torch, warhorn, shield and 3 of the crafting soils which were also yellow over an hour play session in a zone.

    Give it a whirl. If you fail, there are other lower or similar level zones. Personal Story isn't meant to be done in a linear fashion. That is also a false expectation.

    At one point the game wasn't suppose to have any levels. But it was too jarring for many on top of the already non linear progression of the game.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    The game rewards better for doing so as well. There is even a tooltip telling you to take on higher level enemies for the bounty.
    No wonder i've been getting more greens that blues/whites lately on my Norn. I didn't know this and that's actually kind of cool. It's not that I can't kill the monsters, if you just solo-pull everything like you said, even taking out verterans isn't too hard, just it takes ages. Least you get rewarded for it though.

  4. #24
    Mechagnome Nerdpride's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    Maybe it's a server difference? I dunno...the events in Blazeridge are so buggy I couldn't do more than a few of them as I ran around the zone. =(

    EDIT: Although in the Charr starting zone, I did feel the way you're describing. Stuff just constantly happening. Although I did still end up repeating events there sometimes, just because they'd pop right on top of me and why not?
    Some events are indeed related to the amount of players in the area.
    So if you have lots of players around you might some difference. In Sparfkly i saw those "Risen attacks" on Hylek villages A LOT because a lot of pople were on that region. Some of them are timed like Tequatl or Shatterer.
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  5. #25
    It does seem odd that they'd have no endgame PvE, and boost you to 80 with premade gear for the game's PvP. There's really no reason to level, and the leveling itself is mostly just a massive grind
    Rest In Peace, World of Warcraft. Subscriber count doesn't matter, WoW has been dead in spirit for a while
    Rest In Peace, Star Wars the Old Republic. SWTOR is a fun RPG, but a bad MMO

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by zaxlor View Post
    No wonder i've been getting more greens that blues/whites lately on my Norn. I didn't know this and that's actually kind of cool. It's not that I can't kill the monsters, if you just solo-pull everything like you said, even taking out verterans isn't too hard, just it takes ages. Least you get rewarded for it though.
    It can vary! Sometimes I am surprised by what I can handle by moving my traits/weapon kit around a bit.

    What I try to do is think of what will be useful to me an a certain area and adjust. For example, I knew the pirate island in GF going to be a bit rough due to the fast respawn and mob density. So I picked up a defense banner, Endure Pain and Dolyak Signet on my Warrior with a longbow & mace/shield combo. Stuff like that.

    The game is more of a playground than theme park.


    Also here is the tooltip in-game for posterity:


  7. #27
    I'm not sure if this was said, but I do remember reading somewhere in the beginning of the year that Areanet didn't want to have levels. But they also thought that, that would be to extreme of a change at this time.

  8. #28
    Titan DrakeWurrum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zaxlor View Post
    As in, why have levels at all?
    The devs felt that not including leveling at all would turn off more people than it would bring in, so they implemented levels as little more than a method of gating content.
    I hope you haven't forgotten my role in this little story. I'm the leading man. You know what they say about the leading man? He never dies.

    If you give into your impulses in this world, the price is that it changes your personality in the real world. The player and character are one and the same.

  9. #29
    Tbh I would prefer it if the game had no levels too, or even if it was just more like GW1 and there was only 20 levels.

    For me, leveling still feels like a means to an end in this game. I grind to lvl 80, doing nothing but pve out in the world, hearts/events. Then once I hit 80 I get to actually do what I want, which is dungeons, wvw, or just farming for crafting mats. I know for dungeons and wvw you don't have to be lvl 80, but that's just how I am, I'd rather wait til 80 (at least for running explorables and wvw). You can't wear the explorable dungeon gear til 80 anyway.

    I wouldn't mind doing some of these things I've been doing on my lvl 80 necro on alts. I don't feel like spending a week on lvling though, but to be fair I am still pretty busy doing things on my necro.

    I think I don't get as much enjoyment from events as other people. They're great for leveling, but when it comes to the max lvl end game...they're just not that great after you do them a few times. So...yea, leveling is still pretty much a means to an end for me.

    I'd rather hit max lvl a lot faster so I can do what I want a lot faster, and then I'd do the zones I didn't do when I felt like doing map completion. Even for map completion I think 20 lvls would be better. There'd be so many more zones that'd be lvl 20, so there'd be that many more zones where map completion gave you a reward that actually mattered.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by DrakeWurrum View Post
    The devs felt that not including leveling at all would turn off more people than it would bring in, so they implemented levels as little more than a method of gating content.
    Then having 80 levels was counter intuitive. They've gone full circle with the risk of turning people away from the game. It is very fast to go from 1-80 in GW2, but they easily could have had the leveling process take the same amount of time, but do it with a more manageable number, like 50
    Rest In Peace, World of Warcraft. Subscriber count doesn't matter, WoW has been dead in spirit for a while
    Rest In Peace, Star Wars the Old Republic. SWTOR is a fun RPG, but a bad MMO

  11. #31
    A game without levels could work if they made it slowly get harder the further you were from town or the deeper into a dungeon you went, and they could then reward you with better gear or skills as you went further. I like the idea of skill unlocks out in the world in GW2, it's just not necessarily handled well (way too many commune points). Imagine if those were your "levelling" and by searching them out you got more powerful and could then delve deeper into the world. Much better than grinding random no-name mobs to level or picking up random bits of metal for some random village and then getting a mail from some person you've never heard of or met.

  12. #32
    Mechagnome Nerdpride's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadylol View Post
    There's really no reason to level, and the leveling itself is mostly just a massive grind
    No, it's not a grind.
    English is not my first language, feel free to point out any mistake so i can keep learning.
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  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Nerdpride View Post
    No, it's not a grind.
    What? Please explain
    Rest In Peace, World of Warcraft. Subscriber count doesn't matter, WoW has been dead in spirit for a while
    Rest In Peace, Star Wars the Old Republic. SWTOR is a fun RPG, but a bad MMO

  14. #34
    Mechagnome Nerdpride's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadylol View Post
    What? Please explain
    If you look hard enough all MMOs are just huge grinds to consume your time.
    But the usual representation of grind is mindlessly repeating the same thing over and over. According to the dictionary: 4. Informal A laborious task, routine, or study

    Grind came from non-quest based MMOs were you simply killed mobs over and over again.

    Leveling in GW2 is not a grind because you have several ways to do it. You can craft, you can explore, you can play WvWvW, you can follow events or do hearts.
    In fact if you mix all of those you will have a much better experience. Essentialy GW2 leveling isn't a grind because it gives you the option of mixing everything. If you chose to grind it's your call, you can do so. In fact with "Killing Spree" boost you can level really fast by grinding mobs.

    But you can't call GW2 levelling a grind because you choose to.
    English is not my first language, feel free to point out any mistake so i can keep learning.
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  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Nerdpride View Post
    If you look hard enough all MMOs are just huge grinds to consume your time.
    But the usual representation of grind is mindlessly repeating the same thing over and over. According to the dictionary: 4. Informal A laborious task, routine, or study

    Grind came from non-quest based MMOs were you simply killed mobs over and over again.

    Leveling in GW2 is not a grind because you have several ways to do it. You can craft, you can explore, you can play WvWvW, you can follow events or do hearts.
    In fact if you mix all of those you will have a much better experience. Essentialy GW2 leveling isn't a grind because it gives you the option of mixing everything. If you chose to grind it's your call, you can do so. In fact with "Killing Spree" boost you can level really fast by grinding mobs.

    But you can't call GW2 levelling a grind because you choose to.
    It's a grind, because you're doing stuff just to get to max level. That's a grind in any game, weather you're grinding quests, mobs, or whatever else a developer chooses to insert
    Rest In Peace, World of Warcraft. Subscriber count doesn't matter, WoW has been dead in spirit for a while
    Rest In Peace, Star Wars the Old Republic. SWTOR is a fun RPG, but a bad MMO

  16. #36
    Mechagnome Nerdpride's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadylol View Post
    It's a grind, because you're doing stuff just to get to max level. That's a grind in any game, weather you're grinding quests, mobs, or whatever else a developer chooses to insert
    Then by your definition everything in life is a grind because we are always doing something to achieve a goal.
    And that's isn't true.

    A grind is still the mindless repeating of a task and not every task to achieve a goal.
    You are confusing concepts there. If i chose to simply do chain events and follow them around i will get to 80 as much as a guy that choses to just kill mobs. And in a game were getting to max level isn't really important your argument is even worse. You are just twisting the concept to find another reason to try and bash GW2.
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  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Nerdpride View Post
    Then by your definition everything in life is a grind because we are always doing something to achieve a goal.
    And that's isn't true.

    A grind is still the mindless repeating of a task and not every task to achieve a goal.
    You are confusing concepts there. If i chose to simply do chain events and follow them around i will get to 80 as much as a guy that choses to just kill mobs. And in a game were getting to max level isn't really important your argument is even worse. You are just twisting the concept to find another reason to try and bash GW2.
    Leveling to max level is always the "mindless repeating of a task". You're always just mindlessly gathering xp

    And I'm not "bash"ing the game. I'm just pointing out that there's a leveling grind
    Rest In Peace, World of Warcraft. Subscriber count doesn't matter, WoW has been dead in spirit for a while
    Rest In Peace, Star Wars the Old Republic. SWTOR is a fun RPG, but a bad MMO

  18. #38
    Yea its pretty annoying to level your second characters, I understand the need for gaining a lot of xp when doing your first character but why the f should I have to do multiple starting zones on every single character? I just started a mesmer (my 5th char and 4th char over lvl 7) and already at lvl 6-7 I had to switch zones because the next hearts were waay too high level. I understand that I should be doing events but there is no way im standing arround 10 minutes to wait for an event to start.

    Dont get me wrong I think noobs needs to learn about the game and all but when im on my second (or in this case 5th) character I think they need to half the xp needed to level up. It does not matter if you outlevel zones on a secondary character because of the downleveling system however being too low level is a major problem.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Pacer View Post
    Yea its pretty annoying to level your second characters, I understand the need for gaining a lot of xp when doing your first character but why the f should I have to do multiple starting zones on every single character? I just started a mesmer (my 5th char and 4th char over lvl 7) and already at lvl 6-7 I had to switch zones because the next hearts were waay too high level. I understand that I should be doing events but there is no way im standing arround 10 minutes to wait for an event to start.

    Dont get me wrong I think noobs needs to learn about the game and all but when im on my second (or in this case 5th) character I think they need to half the xp needed to level up. It does not matter if you outlevel zones on a secondary character because of the downleveling system however being too low level is a major problem.
    I kind of agree

    I understand that they wanted to have a somewhat non-linear leveling grind, but I'd much prefer it to be a linear path, than to have to switch between two zones every few levels. I have a level 80 Warrior, and it wasn't a huge annoyance on him, but doing it for a second time is really boring. Instead of seeing the same zone every few levels, we just see the same two zones every 10 levels, in the end there's no real difference except how frustrating it is to bounce around different zones all the time
    Rest In Peace, World of Warcraft. Subscriber count doesn't matter, WoW has been dead in spirit for a while
    Rest In Peace, Star Wars the Old Republic. SWTOR is a fun RPG, but a bad MMO

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Pacer View Post
    Dont get me wrong I think noobs needs to learn about the game and all but when im on my second (or in this case 5th) character I think they need to half the xp needed to level up.
    I sorta agree too. What I wish was if there was some sort of legacy bonus akin to SWTOR for subsequent characters once you hit 80 on one. With the bonus accumulating per level 80 character up to a cap.

    Or as one of my guild mates suggested an XP% increase from 1-79 for alts if you already got 100% world on one character. I mean, I am not going to 100% the world on every alt.

    There really is no reason to stretch out the leveling process a 2nd, 3rd or 5th time when the core game de-emphasizes level disparity.

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