Spine and Death Knights

[Saphyron]

tl:dr go to bottom question is there.

So the story begins that I had to tank DS HC 10man. As I have done it before but sadly yet again I dread the spine fight cause I know the raid leader would force me to tank the bloods. God I hate those bloods.

Raid goes smoothly and we finally arrive at the dreadful encounter spine, and yes the raid leader says: "Saphi you have experience with tanking bloods so I want you to do it." "As you know other tank has not done DS HC before so you will be better suited," he continued.
I took it to heart did the fight but failed. I accidently let the blood attack the healers and we wiped.
Getting a pep talk from the leader that I should use blood boil more and DnD, I gave it another try.

We made some mistakes along the way 1 healer died but got ressed(my mistake again). And we got it down in 6 tried on the 3 plates.
I then look at the dps meter and I am stumbled. Recount ingame says I did 53m damage and 78k dps.
At the time people were happy we got it down cause we have been progressing with our low geared alts for some time on that fight. I scream out to raid my dps and everyone laugh. They have the same numbers but they think recount was bugged. I then jumped onto our world of logs and looked at the numbers.

Slightly different than what recount said but none the less my dps was insane.
We then discussed in guild that blood dk's are a bit op in that fight. And that we on our 3rd alt team should bring one for bloods.

We then went on and killed deathwing in 1 go. He was piss easy.

So my question for you mmo-champion. Even though mist of pandaria is around the cornor. Do you find blood dk's viable/op in spine fight. and would you bring a blood dk off-tank just so you had him on spine to tank the bloods?

To those that wonder here is the world of logs from that fight and that run.

And my gear.

[Kaosbringer]

Well its been my experience that Blood dks are not that great for the bloods, due to the large focus on spending runes on DS for mitigation but you need runes to tank/kite bloods. I find that Blood DKs are better with the Amalgamation.

[bals]

were the healers stacking on you? if not their fault for dying. also bloods hit for hardly anything now so sounds more like a healing issue.
blood dks are pretty good on this fight now for bloods, roiling blood should give you more than enough aggro + blood boils.
and 78k is fine considering how long your fight probably was. you can also eat every nuclear blast with ams for some awesome vengeance. glyph of ibf + ibf would allow for less errors if you are going to eat them

[Saphyron]

were the healers stacking on you? if not their fault for dying. also bloods hit for hardly anything now so sounds more like a healing issue.
blood dks are pretty good on this fight now for bloods, roiling blood should give you more than enough aggro + blood boils.
and 78k is fine considering how long your fight probably was. you can also eat every nuclear blast with ams for some awesome vengeance. glyph of ibf + ibf would allow for less errors if you are going to eat them

They were I was just for a few sec not concentrating on getting blood of me. Trying to kite the 100+ bloods already on me and keeping myself alive. Problem is you can't kill them too fast cause then the bloods will just move to the hole and multiply. But the insane dps I have in the end where I just need to get the blood of me before they kill me. Don't think there is any other tank that can kill all 100-150 bloods faster than a blood dk.

Fight took 11min 43sec And other than me everyone was on their low geared alts. I just hate that fight.

note also we had 2 pugs from openraid cause we have slackers. People who is not back before mist that is.

[ant13]

Don't think there is any other tank that can kill all 100-150 bloods faster than a blood dk.

Feral druids smash those bloods, I killed spine on a pug with my bear alt and on the last lift on 3rd plate, there were zero bloods alive:P... but we killed first tendon in one lift.

Also warriors were pretty good on bloods (dunno the current state of them), when we were progressing on spine, our warrior could handle them with ease, although on the last lift there were more than 80 of them alive... but as you say DKs, now, with the changes and the fact that stats are lvl90 oriented, they must be joking on them... I' vent try it on my dk, i hope i ll do it tomorrow on reset :P.

[PowerGamez]

All tanks can do some insane damage due to the scaling of vengence at the point in time.

[Temp name]

The reason you were doing so much dps is because of the number of bloods on you. A person doing AoE on 50+ targets will always do more than one doing single target dps. It's just the way it is.

[Wih]

Aoe doesn't increase significantly for most classes past 10 targets, as most aoes cap at 10 targets, with damage being spread equally amongst the 11+ equal to the damage of 10 targets past that point. DKs have the benefit that some of their aoe damage (diseases) can pass this cap, as it's a spread dot, not an aoe cast. This could account for the inflation of Blood's aoe tankdps.

[Hunty]

Diseases indeed do not aoe cap, though the same might be true for rend+thunderclap? Warriors tend to have an easier time tanking bloods imo since they can spamtaunt and are so much more mobile than dk's.

[zelik]

/watch?list=PLIT_A6m1Gl-lkxt7meTbwIcHm2HTS37uq&v=TlpgMQkxcQY&feature=player_embedded#! just gonna leave this here. (youtube)

[Deleted]

Your dps is about average for a tank on the bloods, looking at wol won't help you as the rankings are frozen, so any parses you check your dps against are before the pre patch. If i remember correctly before the ranks did get frozen, there was a prot warrior ranked 1 at 130k dps. This was removed obviously, like all other ranks after the patch.
As for blood being best on bloods tanking... No is the short answer, the reason for this is because your job is to survive as a tank, and all other tanks can survive the bloods en mass longer and easier, especially shield tanks. Ofcourse however, any tank can do it with relative ease now that the nerf is on 35%. Try on 0% and you will struggle.

[Wih]

Diseases indeed do not aoe cap, though the same might be true for rend+thunderclap? Warriors tend to have an easier time tanking bloods imo since they can spamtaunt and are so much more mobile than dk's.

Rend isn't capped, but TC is. Commented on damage done, not ability to tank bloods.

[Deleted]

60%+ of your damage was from blood plague and frost fever. If your dps arent doing their job and actually killing the bloods the blood tank will have insane AoE, that's just how it works.

Now, instead of focusing on the dps you do, why not start asking why you hate blood tanking so much? From what I can understand from what youve written is that you guys are trying to actually tank/kite 100+ (which feels like an exaggeration) bloods when you are supposed to kill them. I think you and your guildleader have misunderstood this fight in its core. With 35% debuff healing shouldnt be a problem, and you mentioned that they re-emerge from DWs back and that's definitely true but youre missing the fact that it takes it almost a minute to crawl over there. This means that you get a minute or so where youre not taking damage, and if you kill the bloods in a steady stream they will come back in a steady stream where you just pick them off as they spawn pretty much (making sure they're stacked ofc).

Not being able to keep bloods off a healer though.. that's L2P, rolling blood makes it trivial to keep AoE threat.

[bals]

Aoe doesn't increase significantly for most classes past 10 targets, as most aoes cap at 10 targets, with damage being spread equally amongst the 11+ equal to the damage of 10 targets past that point. DKs have the benefit that some of their aoe damage (diseases) can pass this cap, as it's a spread dot, not an aoe cast. This could account for the inflation of Blood's aoe tankdps.

aoe damage for tanks on bloods will continually increase due to no cap on vengeance. the more bloods that are out and being tanked = higher vengeance.

Diseases indeed do not aoe cap, though the same might be true for rend+thunderclap? Warriors tend to have an easier time tanking bloods imo since they can spamtaunt and are so much more mobile than dk's.

warriors no longer can spam taunt.

[Wih]

aoe damage for tanks on bloods will continually increase due to no cap on vengeance. the more bloods that are out and being tanked = higher vengeance.

Yes, but tanks should gen ~ the same AP from it, so not directly affecting my point. If certain tanks scaled better from AP, that might be a valid point.

[Raegwyn]

in my opinion blood dk is the worst tanking class to take the bloods because of many reasons.
the reason for you doing that much dmg is just new vengeance and new bloodboil and maybe you also had gurthalak equipt whats pretty op with bloodboil.
the thing is i still wouldnt take a blood dk for bloods. dps on bloods just doesnt care. i dont know your tactics but in our raid no one is allowed to use gurthalak or big aoe because we dont want more bloods to die than we need