Warp Drive could Become Science fact - NASA small scale testing underway

[Nyteyes]

we are all going to die.

"You're gonna die, I'm gonna die, we all gonna die. just not today..."

[semaphore]

Finding the principle is the first step to building them though!

Sure, and we did that in 1994. I'm just saying this particular discovery is not an extraordinary claim "that requries extraordinary evidence".

[igame]

I doubt you see my view point at all, because you're making a load of unwarranted assumptions about what I'm "saying" when I in fact said none of those things. I didn't say anyone should give up. I didn't dismiss the principle of the Alcubierre drive. I didn't even suggest they should not investigate this possibility. Merely pointing out that there are multiple other hurdles that remain to be solved, is not to say that therefore we shouldn't do anything about it. It's saying, hold your horses, we still gotta work out all this other stuff.

You're also wrong about controlled fusion 50 years ago but that's besides the point.



I don't think you understand what "exotic matter" means in this context. What's exotic about graphene?

And you accuse me of "without much understanding of the subject".

Ah, my bad then. I agree that their are multiple hurdles to overcome, however small scale is a start none-the less.
I realise exotic matter would be something like the dilithium crystals from star trek. I only used graphene as an example because the advances in electronic world created a need for a new material and eventually scientists managed to create graphene.

I understand dilithium crystals are fiction but with all the research going into subatomic particles at places like CERN and astrophysics hell bent on understanding dark matter and dark energy (the 96% of universe), who knows what wonders are waiting around the corner?

We went from a 'cellphone' weighing as much as a brick and able to make only very bad quality voice calls to smart phones in 15-20 years. I for one am excited by this, even though this might be all we hear about warp drives for the next 10-15 years...it's still good to know that the dream of inter stellar travel is alive.

[semaphore]

I realise exotic matter would be something like the dilithium crystals from star trek. I only used graphene as an example because the advances in electronic world created a need for a new material and eventually scientists managed to create graphene.

Dilithium is fictional but not exotic (in this sense), although since I don't actually watch Star Trek I could be wrong about that. The biggest obstacle to the concept is that it requires matter that has negative energy density, which is not exactly allowed under normal laws of physics (hence exotic). My understanding is that Quantum Field Theory potentially allows some limited amounts of this stuff, but the article in the OP is sadly uninformative about how they seek to achieve this.

[mercutiouk]

Even if we master fusion (which we will rather soon) or master matter-antimatter annihilation (antimatter is the costliest material in the universe to make, by the way, several hundred billion dollars per gram), it wouldn't be enough because the only differences between those are how efficient the matter-energy-conversion is. In nuclear fission, you get less energy because less mass is turned into energy, while in fusion, about 1/4 of the mass in every reaction is turned into energy. Matter-antimatter annihilation gives a 100% energy conversion. But, as i said, this wont really be enough. You'd need to convert a planet the size of Jupiter into pure energy to generate a field strong enough to propel a ship at speed of light. Which is kind of a slow speed if we're talking about warp.

Someone didn't read the article or indeed even the original post

[igame]

Dilithium is fictional but not exotic (in this sense), although since I don't actually watch Star Trek I could be wrong about that. The biggest obstacle to the concept is that it requires matter that has negative energy density, which is not exactly allowed under normal laws of physics (hence exotic). My understanding is that Quantum Field Theory potentially allows some limited amounts of this stuff, but the article in the OP is sadly uninformative about how they seek to achieve this.

Do you really expect them to lay out the nitty gritty of their entire hypothesis in one small article? That's what journals are for and I am sure, should they be able to achieve what they propose we will see the findings in a scientific publication in a few dacdes.

[semaphore]

Do you really expect them to lay out the nitty gritty of their entire hypothesis in one small article? That's what journals are for and I am sure, should they be able to achieve what they propose we will see the findings in a scientific publication in a few dacdes.

I expect them to provide at least broad overviews of how they intend to conduct their experiments... This isn't exactly sensitive information that should be classified for "decades".[/QUOTE]

[Gheld]

I expect them to provide at least broad overviews of how they intend to conduct their experiments... This isn't exactly sensitive information that should be classified for "decades".

They are probably at the moment planning to use particle beams and lasers to create and measure microscopic space-time distortions in order to establish in what way we can use technology presently available to manipulate space time and what the general energy requirements for said manipulation are.

[Deleted]

The claims are not that extraordinary. It's just an adjustment of the theory that brings one particular componenet into the realms of practicality. It's not like suddenly we know how to build warp drives (we've just found the principle of what could be warp drives).

No, the extraordinary claim for me is that they are going to actually try and test it in the laboratory. That they are going to distort spacetime, no matter how small the amount.
I don't doubt the theory, but i never heard that the technology available to us was able to do just that. With laser interferometry? uh... how? This is just a fault of mine, but i don't know how that can distory spacetime.

So yeah, i will believe it when i see it published. And replicated.

[igame]

I expect them to provide at least broad overviews of how they intend to conduct their experiments... This isn't exactly sensitive information that should be classified for "decades".

[/QUOTE]

Clearly you are expecting regular journalism to be as informative as a scientific publication. I do not see any point in arguing with you seeing as how you only seem to impress upon how difficult this might be to achieve and not upon the fact that we went from needing universe scale energy to a spacecraft scale. I can not change your opinion and it is not worth trying.

Also, "decades" in my remark was to indicate that scientific publications will not publish a theory till it has at least a 3-4 sigma level, which it would take at least a decade for this theory to achieve.

---------- Post added 2012-09-19 at 05:16 AM ----------

They are probably at the moment planning to use particle beams and lasers to create and measure microscopic space-time distortions in order to establish in what way we can use technology presently available to manipulate space time and what the general energy requirements for said manipulation are.

And what this poster said is the main implication. They are at least going to work on it now even if at a atomic level.

[semaphore]

They are probably at the moment planning to use particle beams and lasers to create and measure microscopic space-time distortions in order to establish in what way we can use technology presently available to manipulate space time and what the general energy requirements for said manipulation are.

Can you elaborate on the mechanics of how they're going to generate this distortion? I gathered from White's 2011 paper that he want to use a He-Ne laser to measure it, but I don't quite understand how the warp field can be generated.

---------- Post added 2012-09-19 at 05:32 AM ----------

Clearly you are expecting regular journalism to be as informative as a scientific publication.

No, I was expecting a somewhat more meaningful discussion of the actual science behind the concept. But apparently all you care about is chest-thumping over how great you perceived whatever development to be.

I do not see any point in arguing with you seeing as how you only seem to impress upon how difficult this might be to achieve and not upon the fact that we went from needing universe scale energy to a spacecraft scale. I can not change your opinion and it is not worth trying.

You have no idea what my opinion is. The fact that you keep wanting to turn it into an attempt to win arguments, over your own faulty interpretation of one sentence, shows we aren't even in the same conversation. So yes, there's no point indeed.

Also, "decades" in my remark was to indicate that scientific publications will not publish a theory till it has at least a 3-4 sigma level

Apparently you don't realise that scientific publications also publish findings without requiring it to be developed into a full scale theory.

And what this poster said is the main implication. They are at least going to work on it now even if at a atomic level.

And god forbid anyone asks how they are going to work on it.

[Arcrin]

fuck warp drive. teleporting is teh shitz!

http://www.time.com/time/health/arti...874760,00.html

[v2prwsmb45yhuq3wj23vpjk]

fuck warp drive. teleporting is teh shitz!

http://www.time.com/time/health/arti...874760,00.html

I would much rather have warp drive...

[Wikiy]

No, the extraordinary claim for me is that they are going to actually try and test it in the laboratory. That they are going to distort spacetime, no matter how small the amount.
I don't doubt the theory, but i never heard that the technology available to us was able to do just that. With laser interferometry? uh... how? This is just a fault of mine, but i don't know how that can distory spacetime.

So yeah, i will believe it when i see it published. And replicated.

It's not an extraordinary claim if you're aware of the fact that you're distorting space too. Every single thing that has mass distorts space. So what's so extraordinary about a couple of scientist taking this a step further? You also shouldn't forget this is going to be on a microscopic level, with, probably, even smaller energy scales. The distortions aren't going to be god-knows how strong.

[igame]

Can you elaborate on the mechanics of how they're going to generate this distortion? I gathered from White's 2011 paper that he want to use a He-Ne laser to measure it, but I don't quite understand how the warp field can be generated.

---------- Post added 2012-09-19 at 05:32 AM ----------


No, I was expecting a somewhat more meaningful discussion of the actual science behind the concept. But apparently all you care about is chest-thumping over how great you perceived whatever development to be.



You have no idea what my opinion is. The fact that you keep wanting to turn it into an attempt to win arguments, over your own faulty interpretation of one sentence, shows we aren't even in the same conversation. So yes, there's no point indeed.



Apparently you don't realise that scientific publications also publish findings without requiring it to be developed into a full scale theory.



And god forbid anyone asks how they are going to work on it.

How they will work with it is the important bit and you lack the scientific knowledge to understand what a sub-atomic scale means.

[semaphore]

How they will work with it is the important bit

Which is why I asked gheld exactly that, so what's your point in restating what I just said?

It's okay that you obviously don't understand the physics involved, nobody asked you.

and you lack the scientific knowledge to understand what a sub-atomic scale means.

You don't have a clue about my "scientific knowledge". But clearly making random assumptions that put others down makes you feel better, so I won't bother trying to have an actual scientific conversation with you.

Seriously, throwing a hissy fit over me saying "the article in the OP is sadly uninformative about how they seek to achieve this". How much more petty can you be?

[Reeve]

All I can say is this scientist had better not accidentally blow up Houston. The experiments he's talking about doing are basically just up the road from my apartment.

[cubby]

we are all going to die.

Read this at 6:44 a.m. - lol and getting odd stares from work colleagues.

Laughed once at the statement, and then again at the author. Thanks, Wells - starting the day out right.

[Reeve]

Read this at 6:44 a.m. - lol and getting odd stares from work colleagues.

Laughed once at the statement, and then again at the author. Thanks, Wells - starting the day out right.

You're working at 6:44 AM? Sorry to hear it. Though I guess there was a time in my life when my work day started at 4 AM...

[Shennanigans]

<---- Mind blown