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  1. #1
    Stood in the Fire paulywally's Avatar
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    Dark Bargain- Reduce the CD

    Considering it deals damage back, its ridiculous CD, i dont see this posing as much Viability as Sacrificial Pact.

    I would like this changed to a 2 min CD, for it to be an option for me to use. Sure it prevents all damage for 8 seconds, but that just doesn't appeal to me.

    Increase the duration to 12 seconds, or reduce the CD by 1 minute.

    Maybe im just being stupid, but 1 min CD on Sac pact, vs 3 min on DB.

    Just doesn't make me say man this is a hard choice. Which is how blizzard wants it to be, as stated.

  2. #2
    A 2 minute cd would be more suited considering a spell like dispersion "2 min cd with a glyph to reduce it" is close to that model. Our cd's all seem rather long considering we no longer have our old soul link to tank damage with and only have 10% health and healing. I personally would rather have soul link back and have UR as our new cd then 2 active abilities both with long cooldowns. We already traded passive healing for a big healing macro cd "dark regen/healthstone glyph" and that was alright but losing soul link hurt worse than blizzard knows

  3. #3
    Scarab Lord nightfalls's Avatar
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    That's part of the tradeoff. DB is incredibly powerful compared to SP, but it's on a longer cooldown. So you can switch as you see fit.

    Most 50% reduction cooldowns (survival instincts) are 3 min and this is significantly better than a 50% cooldown. And dispersion has a downside, it stops you from doing anything.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by voidspark View Post
    That's part of the tradeoff. DB is incredibly powerful compared to SP, but it's on a longer cooldown. So you can switch as you see fit.

    Most 50% reduction cooldowns (survival instincts) are 3 min and this is significantly better than a 50% cooldown. And dispersion has a downside, it stops you from doing anything.
    only problem , we can't heal.we can't spam a shield every 15sec etc
    can't just compare a lock to drood or priest just can't

    at the moment dark bargain CD is just to high that almost nobody wan't it but would have to wait for arena season to start to see any change

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by voidspark View Post
    And dispersion has a downside, it stops you from doing anything.
    its been said in other threads, but being able to cast during DB is not a real perk. Since DB doesnt break CC (alla ice block), it will only be used as an *oh shit!* button. If you;re in a situation where you need an oh shit button, you aren;t able to cast anything anyway.

    I think that every pvp lock would take Dispersion (shorter CD, usable while CCed) over DB any day of the week.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by paulywally View Post
    Sure it prevents all damage for 8 seconds, but that just doesn't appeal to me.
    Gosh, those devs better get right on it then!

    Not all talents will appeal to everyone, that's not a problem provided each talent appeals to someone.

  7. #7
    Scarab Lord nightfalls's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pokeadott View Post
    its been said in other threads, but being able to cast during DB is not a real perk.
    It was said from a PvE perspective (yes, PvP changes influence PvE and vice-versa). For PvP it's obvious dispersion is a much better CD, partly because it has a secondary effect (mana), partly because it can be used whenever, and partly because of its short cooldown and insane damage reduction.

    Assuming we get the 5.1 change (able to use DB while CC'ed) then people will have to CC you for DB... this is different than dispersion, which CC's yourself so others don't have to.

    DB's big downfall is its large cooldown, but as said, it's a pretty potent CD in general.

  8. #8
    Stood in the Fire paulywally's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by voidspark View Post
    That's part of the tradeoff. DB is incredibly powerful compared to SP, but it's on a longer cooldown. So you can switch as you see fit.

    Most 50% reduction cooldowns (survival instincts) are 3 min and this is significantly better than a 50% cooldown. And dispersion has a downside, it stops you from doing anything.
    3 minutes is a very long time in an Arena match.

    From a PvE perspective i find the CD to be less of a hassle, than for PvP.

    All im saying is, is that 3 minutes compared to even 2 1/2 or 2, would be much better than 3.

    Sac Pact is more useful because i can use it more often, not to mention my pet heals for anything i do, which makes it even more useful because i can sac pact whenever.

    120k will turn into like almost 300k at 90, DB needs a reduced cd for it to be viable imo, or a longer duration.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nagassh View Post
    Gosh, those devs better get right on it then!

    Not all talents will appeal to everyone, that's not a problem provided each talent appeals to someone.
    I find it funny that you have to twist my words into what I didn't put it into context as.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by pokeadott View Post
    I think that every pvp lock would take Dispersion (shorter CD, usable while CCed) over DB any day of the week.
    And twice on Sunday!

  10. #10
    Stood in the Fire Baenesur's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pokeadott View Post
    Since DB doesnt break CC (alla ice block), it will only be used as an *oh shit!* button. If you;re in a situation where you need an oh shit button, you aren;t able to cast anything anyway.
    Uhm, so a 8 sec immunity to damage and being able to chain cast fears and still deal damage?
    Being able to go REALLY offensive for 8 secs without worrying about your HP till afterwards?
    Being able to save your healers trinket?
    Ignore ALL the presure the enemy team has going on at you?

    Yea, I see - It's a shitty "Oh shit" button, and you dont have time to cast when using it ...
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  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Baenesur View Post
    Uhm, so a 8 sec immunity to damage and being able to chain cast fears and still deal damage?
    Being able to go REALLY offensive for 8 secs without worrying about your HP till afterwards?
    Being able to save your healers trinket?
    Ignore ALL the presure the enemy team has going on at you?

    Yea, I see - It's a shitty "Oh shit" button, and you dont have time to cast when using it ...
    Situation#1
    During dark bargain, the dps don't need to swap off of you so...

    You press Dark bargain, for 8 seconds you end up preventing 500k damage,
    after dark bargain ends, you now have a DoT up on you which deals 250k
    The dps are still nuking you, but this time have a 250k dot on you at the same time.
    (you're now taking an additional 31k dps)

    Result? Warlock is now even easier to kill now that he used his "Life saving cooldown".

    --

    Situation#2

    Warlock is being battered, presses Dark Bargain to relieve pressure, mage sheeps, shaman hex's, rogue blinds, warlock fears, shadowpriest fears.
    (etc. etc. etc. etc.)
    Or they simply interrupt you.

    Congratulations, you've just used a 3minute cooldown and been CC'd throughout the duration.

    You are now a free kill.

    Dark Bargain would be a much better "life saving cooldown" if it simply reduced all incoming damage by 50%.
    Last edited by qu1rex; 2012-09-19 at 09:36 AM.
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  12. #12
    Scarab Lord Grubjuice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by qu1rex View Post
    Dark Bargain would be a much better "life saving cooldown" if it simply reduced all incoming damage by 50%.
    we already have unending resolve basline,
    they are not going to give us two of the exact same spell.

  13. #13
    I'm going to echo Xelnath here and say: What are you willing to give up to balance for the fact the cooldown is now lower? cause that's a direct power increase, so where are you going to balance it with? This is just another thoughtless thread asking for more power up till now and it will get rightly ignored because of it.

    If you say "I want it to be on a lower cooldown" then you must in that same sentence also say "and make it so it only prevents 35% of the damage and gives me dot afterwards for 65%" I have a shrewd suspicion though, that you would then complain that it's a worthless cooldown and you'd STILL prefer Sacrificial Pact.
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  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Grubjuice View Post
    we already have unending resolve basline,
    they are not going to give us two of the exact same spell.
    I don't really care that we already have Unending Resolve, what i'm saying is that a 50% damage reduction cooldown would be much better than 'preventing' damage for 8 seconds, only for it to be given back to you as a DoT, making it even harder to heal through (easier to kill).

    I wasn't offering a solution, as I think there isn't a solution with the current model, warlocks survivability has been wrecked into Active Cooldowns (albeit for rogues apparently this was terrible design) which is awful for any sort of organised PvP.

    I fail to understand why a design which was proven to be flawed for another class (and rectified!) was given to another class who has mobility issues as well.
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  15. #15
    Fluffy Kitten Zinnin's Avatar
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    I think the Dark Bargain's cooldown is pretty good right now, the only problem I have is that the 8s DoT can be extremely hazardous.

    I wouldn't mind a glyph of Dark Bargain that turned the DoT into a health absorb, or increasing the DoT duration to 16-20s, but increases the damage to 60-70% of the absorb.

  16. #16
    I like dark bargain a bit more, regardless of the cooldown, just stopping all damage and having only 50% of that damage dealt over a whole 8 seconds is kinda ridiculous.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Lockandlawl View Post
    I like dark bargain a bit more, regardless of the cooldown, just stopping all damage and having only 50% of that damage dealt over a whole 8 seconds is kinda ridiculous.
    It's not DB that is perfect, the problem lies on sacrificial Pact.

    DB is more reliable and smoother than any other ability on that tier.
    Sacrificial either needs his effect doubled to 20 secs or the damage (part of it) that was NOT absorved returns to you.
    Sometimes you can pop Sacrificial Pact and they'll just ignore/cc you and focus your partner, i think i don't need to say more. (50% HP loss, execution implications, pets WAY TOO FUC**** SQUISHY, 10secs barely works, etc)

    And after those changes, increase its CD if needed.
    IF sacrificial pact somehow returned the dmg to you ( a good idea would be that it could work like a opose Dark bargain, a DOT heal upon you for like 25% or 50% of the remaining shield HP) or got it's duration increased shield time to 20~25 secs, 2min CD, things could be better.

    Right now, DB is the "go to" ability on that tier.
    Altough DB is not perfect, it doesn't need an Cd reduction.
    Dark Bargain is fine they way it is, imo, since whenever we "ask for" buffs, they should rebalance us, and it's not worth it on dark bargain.

  18. #18
    What if you use sacrificial pact for a lot of situations just because you like how it works better, and then in situations where a boss uses a giant ae damage ability and then nothing afterward you use Dark Bargain? Like say I dunno, Hour of Twilight? It lets you stand in and then you need healed afterward like everyone else does. I mean Sacrificial Pact turns into a shield for as much HP as your demon has. That's about 40k as I'm standing here with my Wrathguard. So it really depends if the shield is going to be strong enough for what you need it for.

    The point of talents is to use the right one for the situation. Lots of constant damage? Soul Link. Medium damage on occasion? Sacrificial Pact. A big ass damage spell that can possibly 1 shot you maybe twice a fight? Dark Bargain.
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  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by sinisterwyvern View Post
    The point of talents is to use the right one for the situation. Lots of constant damage? Soul Link. Medium damage on occasion? Sacrificial Pact. A big ass damage spell that can possibly 1 shot you maybe twice a fight? Dark Bargain.
    You're talking at cross purposes with most of the people in this thread. What you describe are the PvE uses, which are indeed well balanced. They're kvetching about the PvP environment, which is a great deal trickier to balance.

  20. #20
    I'm sorry to say this, but Dark Bargain is a pretty awful survival talent. I'm thinking that anyone claiming that "it's the go to option" doesn't actually realize that Soul Link allows the warlock to double dip from heals, and receive support from a healer in total LoS. In reality, if you have a discipline priest or a restoration druid (or potentially a monk) available, then Soul Link is actually the go-to ability, because it provides long-term survivability without an unavoidable cost. The double-edged sword of it is just a matter of skillful toggling, rather than an unreasonable punishment that you can't do anything about. That last part is the important bit.

    Conversely, the issue with Dark Bargain, is that it effectively reads as follows: "Prevents all damage for 8 seconds. When the shield fades, all damage dealt to you is increased by 50% for 8 seconds." Does that really sound like a good survival talent to you? Can you name even one other survival cooldown that carries such a significant death sentence with it post-fade? Because honestly, I can't. The sole exception being Cauterize, and it's given to a class that can actually cleanse the debuff it invokes. Plus, it has a shorter cooldown, and auto-casts when needed.

    In conclusion, reducing the cooldown on Dark Bargain doesn't even scratch the surface.

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