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  1. #1
    Dreadlord Vuagnon's Avatar
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    Ret ranked 15th in MoP DPS Ranking

    SimulationCraft 505-2 (r14297) for World of Warcraft 5.0.5 BETA (build level 16048) states that Ret is outdpsed by almost all classes, except the Monk and Priest both of which have a healing spec like the Paladin.

    3 Warrior specs, 2 Rogue specs, 2 DK specs, 1 Shaman spec, 1 Druid spec, 2 Warlock specs and finally 3 Mage specs outdps the Ret according to the data provided by the simulations.

    I have lost words to describe how unfair this distribution is, and how Ret has been discriminated despite being the only dps spec of a class.

    Oh wait.. We can throw in a heal or two...

    http://www.simulationcraft.org/505/Raid_T14H.html
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonuts View Post
    Pretty sad when being deathgripped is my most reliable gap closer! THAT is some BS too.

  2. #2
    I think its hilarious how the game isn't even out yet and people are already crying about their class. People seem to think that paladins need the best of both worlds (pvp, pve). Although I am personally not an avid pvp'er My friend hit 2200 the 2nd week into 4.3 pvp season and didn't play his ret again, saying it was too easy. You cant expect to be on top all the time. It isn't as if their dps is so bad that no one will take them in a raid. Let someone else shine for a while.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Silentshankr View Post
    You cant expect to be on top all the time.
    when have rets EVER been at the top?

    s11 was probably ret's best season ever. and we were STILL outclassed by rogues.

    we do average to below average dps in raids. we are solidly tier 2 melee in arena unless played by an exceptionally truly skilled player and even then forced to rely on gimmicks such as double defensive dispels, offhealing, and front loaded burst.
    Last edited by kosechi; 2012-09-18 at 10:58 PM.
    " I need a sec, my wrists hurt from spamming slam so hard. Playing cleave vs cleave is tough stuff guys"

  4. #4
    you would be surprised how different the numbers I`ve seen in my guilds raids and the LFR are, they look incredibly different than those sims.

    have you played in the beta, have you done some raids, and dungeons, and viewed where and how you play ret and how well you play it to other people?

  5. #5
    The Unstoppable Force Bakis's Avatar
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    If WoW would only have a correlation of difficulty <-> gain then it would be perfect, but since it is not, 1-2k less damage is indeed troublesome.
    That being said those are sims, they point in a direction but are in no way the truth when it comes to raiding and more importantly to 98% of all people who raid.
    Last edited by Bakis; 2012-09-18 at 11:01 PM.
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  6. #6
    Dreadlord Vuagnon's Avatar
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    Guess I forgot to mention the hunters. They are literally at the basement, having even worse dps than us. Can't feel anything for them right now though.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonuts View Post
    Pretty sad when being deathgripped is my most reliable gap closer! THAT is some BS too.

  7. #7
    Ret Pallies were REALLY good in Wrath, especially around ICC timeframe. And lets not forget when wrath begun and during beta they were basically 1-2 shotting everyone...
    Last time rets had the tail end of the DPS meters was in TBC. When the only reason to bring a ret pally was for there 3% damage increase...so you only brought 1 and thats it.

  8. #8
    Immortal TEHPALLYTANK's Avatar
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    Sims have never been wrong before.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bigbamboozal View Post
    Intelligence is like four wheel drive, it's not going to make you unstoppable, it just sort of tends to get you stuck in more remote places.
    Quote Originally Posted by MerinPally View Post
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  9. #9
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    I'm sorry this isn't related to rets.. kinda.

    Hunters. Look at hunters on the sims. They're at the dead bottom.

    Now, if you actually look at the hunters on Beta, or at least the ones that know what they're doing, they absolutely obliterate everything in sight.

    The majority of hunters in LFR can't do anything. I'm talking sub 20k dps.

    Then my guildy hunter joins LFR, and consistently does over 60k dps.

    Sims aren't accurate
    Quote Originally Posted by judgementofantonidas View Post
    Blizzard offered cardboard cut outs with poster pictures of bosses stapled on them upside down and sideways and many players now feel that is raiding.
    Raxxykins

  10. #10
    The Unstoppable Force Bakis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xires View Post
    Ret Pallies were REALLY good in Wrath, especially around ICC timeframe. And lets not forget when wrath begun and during beta they were basically 1-2 shotting everyone...
    Last time rets had the tail end of the DPS meters was in TBC. When the only reason to bring a ret pally was for there 3% damage increase...so you only brought 1 and thats it.
    When and how often specs where OP/UP doesnt matter, it is beating a dead horse saying it all over again.
    BLZ dont balance around "its X specs time to shine", I could thrown in a joke about mages always being in the top in pvp/pve though just to prove myself wrong
    But soon after Mr Xi secured a third term, Apple released a new version of the feature in China, limiting its scope. Now Chinese users of iPhones and other Apple devices are restricted to a 10-minute window when receiving files from people who are not listed as a contact. After 10 minutes, users can only receive files from contacts.
    Apple did not explain why the update was first introduced in China, but over the years, the tech giant has been criticised for appeasing Beijing.

  11. #11
    Herald of the Titans Gracin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silentshankr View Post
    I think its hilarious how the game isn't even out yet and people are already crying about their class. People seem to think that paladins need the best of both worlds (pvp, pve). Although I am personally not an avid pvp'er My friend hit 2200 the 2nd week into 4.3 pvp season and didn't play his ret again, saying it was too easy. You cant expect to be on top all the time. It isn't as if their dps is so bad that no one will take them in a raid. Let someone else shine for a while.
    People like you are the reason shit like a 16k difference between #1 position and #15 is. At no point is the OP asking to be on top of the meters, he and the majority of the ret community want to be balanced not overpowered. And yet foolish people like you run your mouths that all we are doing in crying because we aren't "godly". WRONG! All we ask for is any set of meters to be within a few percent of the top, along with every other dps spec. I'm glad you and your friend who was pvping has so much knowledge of a pve issue. Next time think a little bit before posting, and save us the time and loss of braincells from reading your post.

  12. #12
    Dreadlord Vuagnon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by La View Post
    you would be surprised how different the numbers I`ve seen in my guilds raids and the LFR are, they look incredibly different than those sims.

    have you played in the beta, have you done some raids, and dungeons, and viewed where and how you play ret and how well you play it to other people?
    I'm playing on live, not the beta but that wouldn't show anything at all really. Simulations run from the beta would give us a glimpse of how it is going to be, at least at the beginning of MoP. I don't think the simmers would have any reason to lie to people, right? Besides, it's not news to me as a Ret to be at the bottom of the pack. It's been the fate of this spec for quite some time already. Haven't it? Or am I living in another parallel world?
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonuts View Post
    Pretty sad when being deathgripped is my most reliable gap closer! THAT is some BS too.

  13. #13
    Oh buhu! What about hunters, elemental shamans (not everyone wants to play melee even if it's better DPS), windwalker monks, and shadowpriests?

    Be happy that you're simmed DPS is okay, and that these sims do not reflect actual raids encounters, that one extra heal can mean much more than any extra damage for all we know.

  14. #14
    Why don't people take the sims into perspective? It's based on a standing still beating on the boss 100% of the time fight.
    Moo.

  15. #15
    I am Murloc! Sting's Avatar
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    Ugh, you'd think people would understand that sims are not 100% accurate by now.

  16. #16
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    Before the pre expansion patch, I was always last on recount as retri paladin with mages/warlocks/rogues/dks/warrs/hunters being above me (since it was an OS with mostly LFR gear BUT Gurth 416 while they had HC quality gear). After the pre expansion patch I'm almost always in the top 3 (with same gear as before) and on madness HC I was first which surprised me!!!

  17. #17
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    When there are 30 speccs, simple math should tell you that there has to be 30 rankings. Yesyesyes, I know there are healing and tanking speccs there as well but that requires...well not so simple math and I cba to do the simple additive mathematics for that now

  18. #18
    Let's not forget perfect execution of your rotation the entire time.
    Moo.

  19. #19
    The Unstoppable Force Bakis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evián View Post
    People like you are the reason shit like a 16k difference between #1 position and #15 is. At no point is the OP asking to be on top of the meters, he and the majority of the ret community want to be balanced not overpowered. And yet foolish people like you run your mouths that all we are doing in crying because we aren't "godly". WRONG! All we ask for is any set of meters to be within a few percent of the top, along with every other dps spec. I'm glad you and your friend who was pvping has so much knowledge of a pve issue. Next time think a little bit before posting, and save us the time and loss of braincells from reading your post.
    To be fair paladins got 1 dps spec. Plenty of classes got 2-3 and they are far more spread out (with the obvious exception of the untouchable mages).
    Warlocks: top and bottom
    Shamans : top and bottom
    Hunters: bottom and live saying the oposite
    Druids: middle top and bottom

    etc

    So what it comes down to is either rets saying "we only got one dps spec, we deserve to get balanced" contra "I rolled a pure and I better fucking be balanced since I cant heal or tank".

    Lesson, we should all be balanced but it is too hard. Rets are not the exception...
    But soon after Mr Xi secured a third term, Apple released a new version of the feature in China, limiting its scope. Now Chinese users of iPhones and other Apple devices are restricted to a 10-minute window when receiving files from people who are not listed as a contact. After 10 minutes, users can only receive files from contacts.
    Apple did not explain why the update was first introduced in China, but over the years, the tech giant has been criticised for appeasing Beijing.

  20. #20
    and rets out dps 11 specs so it seems that you are pretty balanced.

    And the difference between 15 and 4 is about 9k dps.

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