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  1. #1

    Bored with D3, and here's why

    Tying MF into paragon levels hugely discourages playing alts, and alts give the game replayability and a lot of interesting options.

    I simply don't understand why they did it. Yes, I read their explanation - it's just that it was like reading Charles Manson describing why he had to kill people, it didn't make any sense.

    If you want to do more damage, you look for more primary stat, crit, etc. If you want to survive better you look for vit, AR, etc. If you want to find more gear, you look for MF. Except apparently that last one was too difficult for people to grasp.

    Yeah, I know I could suit up my 60 DH and 60+18 barb with some MF, but it's not the same. The gear doesn't feel "permanent". They're currently naked, as I see no reason to play alts given the changes Blizz made. Selling their gear has allowed me to better equip my WD for the paragon grind to get back to the MF I was at before the patch since, having a brain, I decided to get MF gear since I wanted to MF...

    This idiotic change which wasn't thought out at all has really dulled the game for me.

    And yes, I'm still a bit sore that my expensive MF suit became garbage with 1.04, it's taken me this long just to have more than a couple million gold again since I sunk everything into my new WD main (was waiting for 1.04 to hit to make him my main, with the pet buff).

    Don't get me wrong, I think 1.04 is a quality patch. I think paragon levels are an excellent idea. I'm just not OK with the idea of tying MF into them for the reasons stated.

    Thoughts?

  2. #2
    I still enjoy the game and love the paragon system. I never was into MF gear, so this is working great for me. However, like you said - I feel like I *NEED* to play my main over my alts. I want to get better gear (to sell), so running around on my lvl 1/2 alts isn't all too intriguing.

    Perhaps if they allowed Paragon leveling to span across all your 60s.

  3. #3
    I know what you mean I tried to get excited about my Witch Doctor with the pet buff and it was fun for a bit but really when your other character is paragon 20 and that means 60% extra magic find. Also The extra magic find on their gear, Lets face it WD were not the easiest class to stack magic find unless you had comparatively much better gear than another class. So I end up not playing the WD cos it is 130% MF down on my other character. I know if I played the WD more he would get more mf but really the grind and starting 130% behind is not that appealing.

    However I am still enjoying killing stuff and will no doubt continue for a while yet.

  4. #4
    Most people get bored of the game because of the time you put into it and lack of rewards. I have over 8500 elite packs (I quit after they nerfed ATS, then came back to try out the new paragon system) I still have yet to get a single item that is decent. I've got over 300 hours played on my toon and have yet to get a single set piece (for any set) or a 63 legendary. In fact I've gotten a total of 8, none of which have come from a champ/rare pack.

    If you want people to play your game make it rewarding. Sorry but farming act 3 over and over for something that may sell for 100k on the AH while the rest is 52 yellows and blues, isn't fun. Having to search the AH for upgrades because you can't get any to drop isn't fun. Overall D3 had high hopes, but greed kept the game from being anywhere near what it could have been.

  5. #5
    Over 9000! Glorious Leader's Avatar
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    Paragon isn't really a good system and frankly if you were bored of the grind anyway adding more grind wasn't gonna make it more enjoyable. Paragon is a poor attempt to give players something like lvl 99 was in diablo 2 but it's a shadow of that in part because of the talent system. Getting a paragon lvl in diablo 3 is such a meh experience. TO address your specific complaint it should come as no surprise as the game is extremely restrictive in many other aspects. "Fun" is defined by a very specific set of parameters and lvling alts didn't fall into I guess. I still haven't heard a good reason why NV has to be tied to my skills.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  6. #6
    I still enjoy the game... If you don't enjoy the game, you just stop playing the game, I don't see the difficulty in that...

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Isotope View Post
    Most people get bored of the game because of the time you put into it and lack of rewards. I have over 8500 elite packs (I quit after they nerfed ATS, then came back to try out the new paragon system) I still have yet to get a single item that is decent. I've got over 300 hours played on my toon and have yet to get a single set piece (for any set) or a 63 legendary. In fact I've gotten a total of 8, none of which have come from a champ/rare pack.

    If you want people to play your game make it rewarding. Sorry but farming act 3 over and over for something that may sell for 100k on the AH while the rest is 52 yellows and blues, isn't fun. Having to search the AH for upgrades because you can't get any to drop isn't fun. Overall D3 had high hopes, but greed kept the game from being anywhere near what it could have been.
    I think RNG gets unfairly blamed. My guess is the two main reasons people "never find anything good" are 1) They kill slowly (whether due to bad build or gear), break barrels, explore maps, etc. instead of killing stuff efficiently, and/or 2) They do not recognize good rares when they see them.

    When I started doing a little research, altering my build, playstyle and gear priorities, I started killing a lot faster, and the faster you kill stuff the faster you'll find stuff. Once I started really plowing through monsters the legendaries started coming. My only issue is that Blizzard's unnecessary and poorly thought out change discourages playing alts.

    I also fully agree with Atrahasis that PLs are not as fun as real levels were in D2. But if I felt like it were worth it to get PLs on my alts, I might not have such a problem with it.

    Moinaldo - very intellectually lazy argument. If I didn't like the game I'd quit.
    Last edited by Trotheus; 2012-09-19 at 06:36 PM.

  8. #8
    I don't know about the rest of you, but D3 has far surpassed the time I've put into it than most any other non-subscription based game. I think its totally fine to be bored with it, it tends to happen with video games in general.

  9. #9
    Epic! Dave131's Avatar
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    I do miss alts, I had a lot more fun changing things up by changing toons up. The whole Paragon thing is neat and all, but I would have preferred for them to have just made it easier to stack MF in general so I could just swap gear between characters and keep having fun with different play styles.

    In other words, I'm with the OP on this one

    Still gonna play D3 though...
    “Alcohol may be man's worst enemy, but the bible says love your enemy." ~Frank Sinatra

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Trotheus View Post
    I think RNG gets unfairly blamed. My guess is the two main reasons people "never find anything good" are 1) They kill slowly (whether due to bad build or gear), break barrels, explore maps, etc. instead of killing stuff efficiently, and/or 2) They do not recognize good rares when they see them.

    When I started doing a little research, altering my build, playstyle and gear priorities, I started killing a lot faster, and the faster you kill stuff the faster you'll find stuff. Once I started really plowing through monsters the legendaries started coming. My only issue is that Blizzard's unnecessary and poorly thought out change discourages playing alts.

    I also fully agree with Atrahasis that PLs are not as fun as real levels were in D2. But if I felt like it were worth it to get PLs on my alts, I might not have such a problem with it.

    Moinaldo - very intellectually lazy argument. If I didn't like the game I'd quit.

    Killing stuff isn't my problem. ACT 1 I can one shot white mobs and rare/champs die in about 3 sec. ACT 3 most mobs are 2-3 shot aoe grinding. As for the gear that drops, if it isn't 60+ then it isn't going to sell.

    In fact I had a white 2h 63 xbow that had more dmg than a yellow 2h 63 xbow. I get lots of good ilvl stuff, but they are all just rolled awful. Barb weapons with more int than str on them.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Trotheus View Post
    I think RNG gets unfairly blamed. My guess is the two main reasons people "never find anything good" are 1) They kill slowly (whether due to bad build or gear), break barrels, explore maps, etc. instead of killing stuff efficiently, and/or 2) They do not recognize good rares when they see them.

    When I started doing a little research, altering my build, playstyle and gear priorities, I started killing a lot faster, and the faster you kill stuff the faster you'll find stuff. Once I started really plowing through monsters the legendaries started coming. My only issue is that Blizzard's unnecessary and poorly thought out change discourages playing alts.

    I also fully agree with Atrahasis that PLs are not as fun as real levels were in D2. But if I felt like it were worth it to get PLs on my alts, I might not have such a problem with it.

    Moinaldo - very intellectually lazy argument. If I didn't like the game I'd quit.
    49k Dps on my 293%MF set + Shrine buff and out of 114 yellows, 95 of them were below level 60. An its not like I am not helping out my chances, I can basically gear an Int, Dex and Str class, but nothng dropping doesn't help and as for speed. Act1 and Act2 are pretty much run and guns til I hit an elite pack and then I just reign, shoot a couple times, vault and their dead, no more 3min kite sessions. Its definitely not a speed issue, more like a farm time issue and piss poor Rng issue..

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Isotope View Post
    Killing stuff isn't my problem. ACT 1 I can one shot white mobs and rare/champs die in about 3 sec. ACT 3 most mobs are 2-3 shot aoe grinding. As for the gear that drops, if it isn't 60+ then it isn't going to sell.

    In fact I had a white 2h 63 xbow that had more dmg than a yellow 2h 63 xbow. I get lots of good ilvl stuff, but they are all just rolled awful. Barb weapons with more int than str on them.
    I just sold a well-rolled ilvl 57 amulet for 25 bucks on the rmah.

    If you're plowing through stuff as fast as you say then the issue would be nonrecognition of good rares.

    But for curiosity's sake, mind posting your profile?

    Quote Originally Posted by darklogrus View Post
    49k Dps on my 293%MF set + Shrine buff and out of 114 yellows, 95 of them were below level 60. An its not like I am not helping out my chances, I can basically gear an Int, Dex and Str class, but nothng dropping doesn't help and as for speed. Act1 and Act2 are pretty much run and guns til I hit an elite pack and then I just reign, shoot a couple times, vault and their dead, no more 3min kite sessions. Its definitely not a speed issue, more like a farm time issue and piss poor Rng issue..
    We all get occasional runs of bad RNG, but over the course of time it evens out. It's absurd to think that over one, two, three hundred or more hours played some people would never get anything while others would get a lot. It doesn't work out that way with such a large sample size.

    To add a little something more, it's worth mentioning that character sheet damage is a good general indicator of actual damage, but by no means the end-all, be-all. There are way too many variables in how certain classes and specs work in the real world (erm, the real game world) vs. how the character sheet number simply multiplies the numbers together with equal weighting. There are also items with unique stats such as +dmg vs. elites, etc. For example, the build I'm using on my WD prioritizes int while the relative value of crit / crit dmg goes down. My character sheet damage, once 65k, is now barely 50k - yet I kill 2-3 times faster.

    You also don't mention your survivability. It doesn't matter how high your damage is if you're dying a lot, or jumping through hoops to avoid dying, running around and such instead of attacking.
    Last edited by Trotheus; 2012-09-19 at 08:24 PM.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Trotheus View Post
    I just sold a well-rolled ilvl 57 amulet for 25 bucks on the rmah.

    If you're plowing through stuff as fast as you say then the issue would be nonrecognition of good rares.

    But for curiosity's sake, mind posting your profile?
    Amulet and rings are the exception. Of course you're talking about 1 item over the course of how many you've gotten. That's like saying "I just won a jackpot worth $1500 at the casino." Yet not telling anybody that you had to spend over $2000 to win it.

    If you actually break it down and look at how many items you get that are worth anything vs how much time you spent in the game makes it not worth it. I would rather spend my time building things in minecraft for hours. At least after all my hard work I can have something to look at.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Isotope View Post
    Amulet and rings are the exception. Of course you're talking about 1 item over the course of how many you've gotten. That's like saying "I just won a jackpot worth $1500 at the casino." Yet not telling anybody that you had to spend over $2000 to win it.
    I wasn't saying it was common, only responding to your comment that nothing under 61 was worth anything.

    If you actually break it down and look at how many items you get that are worth anything vs how much time you spent in the game makes it not worth it. I would rather spend my time building things in minecraft for hours. At least after all my hard work I can have something to look at.
    I get items that are worth something all the time. If everything I have on the GAH sold right now I'd make ~150 mill. And then there's the RMAH. A few days ago I found 3 andariel's visages - only one was worth more than a couple million (got 18 for it), but the vile ward I found the same day made up for it - got 50mill. And I'm not stacking MF either, I have 1-2 pieces with some, but I didn't go hunting them. Aside from that, I just have my PL MF (PL 35 ish) and NV stacks.

    While whether the time we spend to get whatever we get is worth it is entirely subjective, I maintain that if you feel you're getting nothing, you're probably doing something wrong. Read your class forum at diablofans, watch some streams of geared people playing your class, and check this out, it could be a big help for people who have trouble recognizing good rares.
    Last edited by Trotheus; 2012-09-19 at 10:35 PM.

  15. #15
    so it looks like someboby has to write a guide a la "how to recognize a good item", eh?

    could need such a guide as well, cuz i can't see anything dropping that is worth something.

  16. #16
    I was very bored with Diablo3, took a month off and now feel refreshed while playing it... I've lowered my expectations of the loot I'm going to find and just mindlessly grind A3 mobs. I've actually taken my entire focus off finding loot and just go for paragon levels. I only stop to pick up max level items, all rings/amulets and that's it. I honestly don't think it's worth my time sifting through rubbish as it was killing the game for me. The non legendary loot in this game is boring, prices just increase exponentially as primary stat, crit, ehp go up slightly so you never really know how much something is worth until you consult the AH, very hit and miss.

    If I miss a few rares worth $10 or whatever, I'd consider that a bargain in a trade off for my sanity.
    Last edited by nightshark; 2012-09-19 at 10:52 PM.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Trotheus View Post
    I get items that are worth something all the time. If everything I have on the GAH sold right now I'd make ~150 mill. And then there's the RMAH. A few days ago I found 3 andariel's visages - only one was worth more than a couple million (got 18 for it), but the vile ward I found the same day made up for it - got 50mill. And I'm not stacking MF either, I have 1-2 pieces with some, but I didn't go hunting them. Aside from that, I just have my PL MF (PL 35 ish) and NV stacks.

    While whether the time we spend to get whatever we get is worth it is entirely subjective, I maintain that if you feel you're getting nothing, you're probably doing something wrong. Read your class forum at diablofans, watch some streams of geared people playing your class, and check this out, it could be a big help for people who have trouble recognizing good rares.
    3 andariel's visages and 1 vile ward, in the same day, with what, 145 mf? I'd say you got extremely lucky, even if you played all day long. On the flip side, saying that if I don't find anything worthwhile is simply my own fault is belittling. Given your example of extremely good luck, its entirely plausible that one could have bad luck and not get anything worthwhile for quite some time.
    Last edited by medievalman1; 2012-09-19 at 11:44 PM.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Flaim View Post
    so it looks like someboby has to write a guide a la "how to recognize a good item", eh?

    could need such a guide as well, cuz i can't see anything dropping that is worth something.
    IMO your attitude is really poor. Here's a genuine offer of help for those who need it, and you toss it aside, seemingly preferring to continue vendoring good rares so that you can keep complaining that you never get any.

    Quote Originally Posted by medievalman1 View Post
    3 andariel's visages and 1 vile ward, in the same day, with what, 145 mf? I'd say you got extremely lucky, even if you played all day long. On the flip side, saying that if I don't find anything worthwhile is simply my own fault is belittling. Given your example of extremely good luck, its entirely plausible that one could have bad luck and not get anything worthwhile for quite some time.
    We're talking about one day. Of course my luck was great for that one day. Of course you could have one day where your luck sucks - I've certainly had days like that. But unless we've all only played the game for one day, it averages out over time.

    And if, over the course of time, you "never get anything good", there's simply no other answer. With a big enough sample size the issue is either your kill speed or recognition of quality items. I suggest following the link another poster snubbed his nose at. I can't vouch for it, I can spot a good rare on my own - but for others it could be a great thing.

    And there's no stigma if you can't see a good rare. Nobody's calling you names. If I didn't play D2 so much I might not be able to either. And there are things I don't do well, a great many of them. If you can't recognize good rares, so be it. It doesn't make you a bad person, a bad player, etc. Just get over it and give the link a shot.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Trotheus View Post
    They do not recognize good rares when they see them.
    I agree actually and am shocked that they didn't make a system that was more intuitive. Especially considering how much emphasis their is on selling and buying items in this game, you figure they would make item upgrades clear cut as opposed to ambiguous. As for altering my build and playstyle, well I thought this game was all about giving me choice...

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Trotheus View Post
    IMO your attitude is really poor. Here's a genuine offer of help for those who need it, and you toss it aside, seemingly preferring to continue vendoring good rares so that you can keep complaining that you never get any.


    We're talking about one day. Of course my luck was great for that one day. Of course you could have one day where your luck sucks - I've certainly had days like that. But unless we've all only played the game for one day, it averages out over time.

    And if, over the course of time, you "never get anything good", there's simply no other answer. With a big enough sample size the issue is either your kill speed or recognition of quality items. I suggest following the link another poster snubbed his nose at. I can't vouch for it, I can spot a good rare on my own - but for others it could be a great thing.

    And there's no stigma if you can't see a good rare. Nobody's calling you names. If I didn't play D2 so much I might not be able to either. And there are things I don't do well, a great many of them. If you can't recognize good rares, so be it. It doesn't make you a bad person, a bad player, etc. Just get over it and give the link a shot.
    You know what, your right. All this time the ilvl 63 1 hand bow with its 255dps and +50int was worth millions and I sold it for trash. If only I had that chart I would have realized my error...

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