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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Flaim View Post
    so it looks like someboby has to write a guide a la "how to recognize a good item", eh?

    could need such a guide as well, cuz i can't see anything dropping that is worth something.
    From what i've been told items with the following attributes are in demand

    High weapon dps
    Crit chance
    Crit Dmg
    LoH
    Life Steal
    All resistance

    Unfortunately getting an item that rolls a good amount of those stats is fucking stupid. Theirs probably more valuable stats as well, my understanding is somewhat limited but the more shit you add the harder is it to get rolls that are really good. That's partially why gear feels like such shit. It really is.

  2. #22
    Really wish they would have offered an offline version. Sucks that it requires internet , really hoping they don't screw starcraft 2 up like this. =(

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by TonyIommi View Post
    From what i've been told items with the following attributes are in demand

    High weapon dps
    Crit chance
    Crit Dmg
    LoH
    Life Steal
    All resistance

    Unfortunately getting an item that rolls a good amount of those stats is fucking stupid. Theirs probably more valuable stats as well, my understanding is somewhat limited but the more shit you add the harder is it to get rolls that are really good. That's partially why gear feels like such shit. It really is.
    Thats why his comment is so stupid about not realizing a rare is good. Pretty much everyone knows what stats each piece must have and a minimal # for each. Not to mention is basically the same for every class minus the main stat like Dex or Int or Str. The problem is rolling the stats you need, and a decent # for each.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by darklogrus View Post
    Thats why his comment is so stupid about not realizing a rare is good. Pretty much everyone knows what stats each piece must have and a minimal # for each. Not to mention is basically the same for every class minus the main stat like Dex or Int or Str. The problem is rolling the stats you need, and a decent # for each.
    Yea but like I only know that because I did some homework. Mind you it wasn't much and that list probably isn't complete but the system itself isn't very intuitive. I mean in warcraft it's fairly obvious what you want. Primary stat + usually one secondary stat stands above. That's it by and large. On my arm warrior for example it's strength and then crit (if your already hit capped). Stat information is provided to you in game as well, so you know how much hit you need. Basically the warcraft system feels much more intuitive then the Diablo one.

    Once you do some homework though you start to realize how shit it is though because rolling any good combination of those stats is retarded. I have a better chance of meeting the tooth fairy then I do of getting good rolls. It brings me back to the question I keep asking who the fuck is this game made for? The system isn't terribly intuitive for newbies and casuals who don't care to look shit up. D2 vets have plenty of issues with it as well. It feels like a project that was just made to be as broad as possible to appeal to as many people as possible but without any focus it appeals to next to no one.
    Last edited by Leonard McCoy; 2012-09-20 at 01:22 AM.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Trotheus View Post
    IMO your attitude is really poor. Here's a genuine offer of help for those who need it, and you toss it aside, seemingly preferring to continue vendoring good rares so that you can keep complaining that you never get any.
    must be really good to sit on such a high horse, that you can't even recognize that i actually mean it.
    i don't have a lot of experience (~2k elites -> 1 set item, 2 low lvl legendaries) in deciding which items are good, but keep on flaming if it helps your confidence.

    Quote Originally Posted by TonyIommi View Post
    From what i've been told items with the following attributes are in demand

    High weapon dps
    Crit chance
    Crit Dmg
    LoH
    Life Steal
    All resistance

    Unfortunately getting an item that rolls a good amount of those stats is fucking stupid. Theirs probably more valuable stats as well, my understanding is somewhat limited but the more shit you add the harder is it to get rolls that are really good. That's partially why gear feels like such shit. It really is.
    thanks ^^
    besides the obvious "high dps" it's a nice help
    Last edited by Flaim; 2012-09-20 at 09:47 AM.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trotheus View Post
    I simply don't understand why they did it.
    Paragon levels are meant as a reward to people who already were farming for gear, and would have been farming for gear, regardless of any updates. You'd already be farming, so might as well get experience while you're doing it, and then you could slowly get rid of your MF gear, not having to bother clicking on your MF set every damn elite pack - which is an asinine thing to do, yes, but people still do it, all the time.

    Paragon levels aren't meant for people who had already quit and/or gotten bored.
    've is short for have. C/Sh/Would've or c/sh/would have. Not c/sh/would of.

  7. #27
    This thread is kinda unreal. I complained about adding MF to paragon levels.

    The only responses have been people complaining that they're broke because they choose to vendor good rares. I go off-topic to try helping them, and I get told I'm flaming them for my effort.

    This is hopeless, I just hope Blizzard doesn't give in to you people.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Trotheus View Post
    This thread is kinda unreal. I complained about adding MF to paragon levels.

    The only responses have been people complaining that they're broke because they choose to vendor good rares. I go off-topic to try helping them, and I get told I'm flaming them for my effort.

    This is hopeless, I just hope Blizzard doesn't give in to you people.
    and fix itemization? Are you nuts? It's the single biggest complaint on every forum. Seriously. Go read the official forums, their are threads dedicated to this single topic with pages and pages of back and forth and they all address the problem far better.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by TonyIommi View Post
    and fix itemization? Are you nuts? It's the single biggest complaint on every forum. Seriously. Go read the official forums, their are threads dedicated to this single topic with pages and pages of back and forth and they all address the problem far better.
    I don't feel itemization is broken, so how could it be fixed? Diablo games are about gambling. Everything is a gamble, from what affixes a leet pack has, to what mods a rare has, to even what many maps look like. If you win every time, it's no longer gambling and will no longer be fun.

    I think a lot of kids are playing this as their first Diablo game. Most have played WoW and become spoiled by welfare epics in that game. Not to mention their own parents - it's pretty much child abuse to not buy a kid an xbox + ps3 these days.

    So the idea of not always and immediately getting what they want causes them to cry. And the concept of actually having to do some thinking (eg. about whether a rare is good or not) is lost on them as well; everything in other games has been handed to them on a platter.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Trotheus View Post
    I don't feel itemization is broken, so how could it be fixed? Diablo games are about gambling. Everything is a gamble, from what affixes a leet pack has, to what mods a rare has, to even what many maps look like. If you win every time, it's no longer gambling and will no longer be fun.

    I think a lot of kids are playing this as their first Diablo game. Most have played WoW and become spoiled by welfare epics in that game. Not to mention their own parents - it's pretty much child abuse to not buy a kid an xbox + ps3 these days.

    So the idea of not always and immediately getting what they want causes them to cry. And the concept of actually having to do some thinking (eg. about whether a rare is good or not) is lost on them as well; everything in other games has been handed to them on a platter.
    Because you thinking it doesn't make it so unfortuantely. I mean I don't think global warming is a problem so how could it be fixed? As for how it's borked and how they could fix it, I'll send link you a couple threads from the official forums that explain it far better than I do.

    http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/5149181996
    http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/6470847116
    http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/6606781346

    That's after like 5 minutes of searching. I remember better threads months ago. The last one in particular lists some of the biggest problems. Linking skill dmg to weapon dps was a boneheaded move. Now all that basically matters is how much dmg the weapon does and anything under the magic 1000+ sucks balls and anything over it goes for millions. In essence (for a variety of reasons) everything is a bit to specialized or singular and it makes gear suck. Theirs only a handful of stats that are good and getting a decent roll on all those stats also sucks so 90% of the gear you find is worthless. Crazy builds that centered around one item are gone meaning more useless gear. Rerolling the same class is out the window or at least the game doesn't promote that so even if you find something for a barb that is slightly weaker than what you have well it doesn't matter that gear is worthless to. Lot's of problems with items in this game and since none of the problems exist in a vacuum it all goes to reinforce issues with the game making it more and more apparent that far more testing was needed.
    Last edited by Leonard McCoy; 2012-09-20 at 04:24 PM.

  11. #31
    People who are happy with the game aren't on the forums saying so for the most part - they're playing.

    There are a lot of threads about itemization and the AH. There is also a button called "Post New Thread"

    The fact you ignored both options and threadcrapped my post about a legitimate and different topic tells me all I need to know about the intelligence level of people who are having problems earning gold.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Trotheus View Post
    People who are happy with the game aren't on the forums saying so for the most part - they're playing.

    There are a lot of threads about itemization and the AH. There is also a button called "Post New Thread"

    The fact you ignored both options and threadcrapped my post about a legitimate and different topic tells me all I need to know about the intelligence level of people who are having problems earning gold.
    I didn't ignore it. I wasn't the one who brought it up some other dude did I was responding to him. Let's go back to your topic. Yes your bored of diablo and you blame paragon because it has a tie to MF and it's prohibitive of alts and so forth. Okay that's all well and good and I agree but paragon is shitty for other reasons and really doesn't add that much to the game at all. If you were bored before and bored of the grind already paragon isn't gonna do it for you. In fact it was never going to do it for anybody unless you already enjoyed the game. It is simply to little of a reward for all the grind and investment required and again it goes back to itemization. In Diablo 2 lvl 99 or approaching it was a bit of an icing on the cake, since the real quest was getting sweet items which you did get in diablo 2. In diablo 3 with itemization being so piss poor and you basically getting garbage for 99% of the time paragon is all you have and it sucks because it's not fufilling enough in the slightest and in and of itself it sucks compared to lvl 99 in d2. I mean you got skill points in d2 and you have some illusion of growth and progression and choice in that growth and progression. Getting a paragon level in d3 is akin to getting prestige in CoD. It's a thing beneath your border that you can epeen to other people. Oh and some stat handouts which are extremely underwhelming. Seeing "you gained 2 primary stat" pop up on the screen is hardly as rewarding as CHOOSING a talent point you want.

    I'm sure some people are happy with Diablo just as I'm sure some people refuse to acknowledge global warming and believe Elvis has been abducted by space aliens. It does not mean Itemization is good and doesn't need work. I mean I'm sure theirs a trash game you detest that people are happy about, does it make the game any less trash that some people like it? In fact go ahead name a game you despise... I bet I can find people that love it to death.
    Last edited by Leonard McCoy; 2012-09-20 at 04:48 PM.

  13. #33
    Tying MF into paragon levels hugely discourages playing alts, and alts give the game replayability and a lot of interesting options.

    I simply don't understand why they did it. Yes, I read their explanation - it's just that it was like reading Charles Manson describing why he had to kill people, it didn't make any sense.

    If you want to do more damage, you look for more primary stat, crit, etc. If you want to survive better you look for vit, AR, etc. If you want to find more gear, you look for MF. Except apparently that last one was too difficult for people to grasp.

    Yeah, I know I could suit up my 60 DH and 60+18 barb with some MF, but it's not the same. The gear doesn't feel "permanent". They're currently naked, as I see no reason to play alts given the changes Blizz made. Selling their gear has allowed me to better equip my WD for the paragon grind to get back to the MF I was at before the patch since, having a brain, I decided to get MF gear since I wanted to MF...

    This idiotic change which wasn't thought out at all has really dulled the game for me.

    And yes, I'm still a bit sore that my expensive MF suit became garbage with 1.04, it's taken me this long just to have more than a couple million gold again since I sunk everything into my new WD main (was waiting for 1.04 to hit to make him my main, with the pet buff).

    Don't get me wrong, I think 1.04 is a quality patch. I think paragon levels are an excellent idea. I'm just not OK with the idea of tying MF into them for the reasons stated.

    Thoughts?
    I don't see a connection.

    How does the MF on paragon have anything to do with ones desire to play alts? Most if not all that MF gear you put on your main is likely useless on an alt. So it's not likely you were swapping the gear around.
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  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Trotheus View Post
    This thread is kinda unreal. I complained about adding MF to paragon levels.

    The only responses have been people complaining that they're broke because they choose to vendor good rares. I go off-topic to try helping them, and I get told I'm flaming them for my effort.

    This is hopeless, I just hope Blizzard doesn't give in to you people.

    I tell you what. I will make you a screaming good deal. I will sell you all my rares that I get for 25k each. Since obviously you think items that are 63 barb one handers that have 324dps and 130 int with 1230 life on kill are worth something. This is putting your money where your mouth is. Sadly you won't do it because you know in reality that loot is a major problem.

    My whole point has been and still has been and has been backed up by a lot of people on here in several threads and on the official forums. Loot that drops is trash. Killing Diablo with 5 stacks of NV and getting 4 rares and only one being above lvl 60 is a problem. You can disagree and say that "I don't know how to see a good rare," So I guess you're the only one who knows how to see a good rare.

    So my offer stands. I will sell you all my junk rares for 25k each.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Isotope View Post
    I tell you what. I will make you a screaming good deal. I will sell you all my rares that I get for 25k each. Since obviously you think items that are 63 barb one handers that have 324dps and 130 int with 1230 life on kill are worth something. This is putting your money where your mouth is. Sadly you won't do it because you know in reality that loot is a major problem.

    My whole point has been and still has been and has been backed up by a lot of people on here in several threads and on the official forums. Loot that drops is trash. Killing Diablo with 5 stacks of NV and getting 4 rares and only one being above lvl 60 is a problem. You can disagree and say that "I don't know how to see a good rare," So I guess you're the only one who knows how to see a good rare.

    So my offer stands. I will sell you all my junk rares for 25k each.
    More importantly and this is what the OP is missing is that these issues don't exist in a vacuum. Paragon is boring for a number of reasons but primarily because it was never meant to take the place of good items dropping. Getting lvl 99 in Diablo 2 didn't do that either but well stuff dropped in d2. In the end hes correct to say Paragon is boring but he's a bit off with the why.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by TonyIommi View Post
    paragon is shitty for other reasons and really doesn't add that much to the game at all. If you were bored before and bored of the grind already paragon isn't gonna do it for you. In fact it was never going to do it for anybody unless you already enjoyed the game.
    The only thing I don't like about Paragon is the MF thing. I think it adds a lot to the game. I was bored in 1.03, not enjoying the game at all - that changed in 1.04 when I began playing again. I just have the MF gripe.

    In Diablo 2 lvl 99 or approaching it was a bit of an icing on the cake, since the real quest was getting sweet items which you did get in diablo 2. In diablo 3 with itemization being so piss poor and you basically getting garbage for 99% of the time paragon is all you have and it sucks because it's not fufilling enough in the slightest and in and of itself it sucks compared to lvl 99 in d2.
    I get far more good stuff in D3 than I did in D2. And I was all-out MF in D2.

    I mean you got skill points in d2 and you have some illusion of growth and progression and choice in that growth and progression. Getting a paragon level in d3 is akin to getting prestige in CoD. It's a thing beneath your border that you can epeen to other people. Oh and some stat handouts which are extremely underwhelming. Seeing "you gained 2 primary stat" pop up on the screen is hardly as rewarding as CHOOSING a talent point you want.
    I agree with you on that, I guess I do have a second problem with paragon leveling. However, it's not as big a deal to me as the MF part is. If I could play other characters meaningfully I wouldn't worry at all about the underwhelming nature of paragon leveling.

    I'm sure some people are happy with Diablo just as I'm sure some people refuse to acknowledge global warming and believe Elvis has been abducted by space aliens. It does not mean Itemization is good and doesn't need work. I mean I'm sure theirs a trash game you detest that people are happy about, does it make the game any less trash that some people like it? In fact go ahead name a game you despise... I bet I can find people that love it to death.
    So you're right because you're right, and others are wrong because they're so obviously wrong. And not only are they wrong, they're so wrong they deserve to be made fun of for daring to disagree with you... It's stuff like this that makes me take your posts with a grain of salt.

    ---------- Post added 2012-09-20 at 01:47 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Isotope View Post
    I tell you what. I will make you a screaming good deal. I will sell you all my rares that I get for 25k each. Since obviously you think items that are 63 barb one handers that have 324dps and 130 int with 1230 life on kill are worth something. This is putting your money where your mouth is. Sadly you won't do it because you know in reality that loot is a major problem.

    My whole point has been and still has been and has been backed up by a lot of people on here in several threads and on the official forums. Loot that drops is trash. Killing Diablo with 5 stacks of NV and getting 4 rares and only one being above lvl 60 is a problem. You can disagree and say that "I don't know how to see a good rare," So I guess you're the only one who knows how to see a good rare.

    So my offer stands. I will sell you all my junk rares for 25k each.
    I never said all loot is good, I said you're probably vendoring some that is good.

    I should also point out kill speed and efficiency. You talk about killing Diablo with 5 stacks, and you honestly don't see the problem? The Diablo fight takes forever. No boss is worth killing in terms of efficiency, but big D takes the cake since the fight is even longer than other boss fights.

    My guess is you're playing inefficiently in other ways as well. Since this is a gambling/lottory style of game, the more you play the higher your chances of winning. In addition to playing efficiently it's also important to have a spec which works well and makes sense. And "good" gear is important as well. I put "good" in quotes because quality is relative to funding - but at most any funding level you can, with some work, put together a thoroughly adequate set which will allow you to kill much more efficiently.

    Would you mind linking your profile? If you don't feel comfortable doing it in the thread PM me with it. I suspect you're geared and/or specced inefficiently.

    In a nutshell, the problem is that some people seek to learn and improve their gameplay while others are stubborn and refuse to. The latter camp sees the former camp being successful and grows angry and resentful, thinking it's some kind of sorcery or blind luck, never realizing they're doing it to themselves. There are actually quite a few parallels in the real world. Rich vs. poor, religious vs. nonreligious, etc.
    Last edited by Trotheus; 2012-09-20 at 05:51 PM.

  17. #37
    It's boring cause it's bad... no really D3 is god awful. Ill play again when they...

    Add clans / guilds ( not cross game with WoW even though this wont be around forever either )
    Add create a custom game D2 was fun because of duel games, trade games, farming games.
    Allow you to do Act 1-4 not this horrible idea that you can do one act per game...
    There is almost no online games like couple nights ago 14 people were doing a main quest an hour from that 16...
    Duels in games
    PvP in general
    ladder system
    make trading item for item better then gold which is to late ( AH is awful trading was more rewarding )
    so so so so much more they need to add


    But every patch they think fixing MF and item drops and nerfing stuff is how to make it better.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Trotheus View Post
    In a nutshell, the problem is that some people seek to learn and improve their gameplay while others are stubborn and refuse to. The latter camp sees the former camp being successful and grows angry and resentful, thinking it's some kind of sorcery or blind luck, never realizing they're doing it to themselves. There are actually quite a few parallels in the real world. Rich vs. poor, religious vs. nonreligious, etc.
    Now I Have to take you with a grain of salt. Rather than admit the system has problems (which it does wether or not you choose to accept that) you would rather divide the community in half. Look it I seem to recall somewhere the developers talking about giving me choice and variety.. yea i guess not so much?

    Again list a game you hate and I'll find people who love it. You simply thinking everything is peachy doesn't make it so. It has problems wether or not you choose to accept it and the threads I linked if you bothered to read illustrate what many of them are.

  19. #39
    I dunno, I can kill 26 Elite packs, clear a couple zones, a few crypts, a few caves and ID all my yellows, sell em and store em in about 30mins. So you really think its a problem with my kill efficiency?

    Anyways, theres nothing wrong with MF on paragon. If anything paragon was offered just a tad bit to late, so while a few of my toons are 0-1 paragon. MY Barb who hit 60 after the paragon went live is now 6 lvls in and he just left Act1 Inferno. As for your comment, some people don't even have an Alt, they have only 1 main. So for them it makes no difference. I guess that makes you one of "those" people now..

    As for gear, the huge range in the drop level needed to be addressed, having a lvl 52 yellow axe drop in Act3 Inferno with a Dps of 110 and 20int is just stupid.

  20. #40
    d3 is a good game to go, wow wtf is this crap...man i cant be assed....mm WoW seems more fun now!

    and this is coming from someone who LOVED diablo 2 to pieces 15 charas lvl 90+...but diablo 3 paragon lvl 6 and...man it sucks

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