The future of Diablo 3

[Kittyvicious]

Because I have spent hundreds of millions gearing in the the fact that Force Armor with Prismatic rune increases by a percentage, hence the better values you had to begin with the better effect you got from it. So it is a very valid complaint, especially the better gear you had as it not only diminishes the returns you get by also changes your overall gearing strategy, perhaps I could have spend half or more of what I spent on my current gear getting much more dps instead of armor that will lose more than half it's value to me after the patch.

You see I don't get the choice in just keeping my build or go a higher dps route, I geared enough to do both, I have 100k+ dps with 1100+ AR and 7k+ armor before I push Archon, hence extremely expensive but well worth it pre patch, after I might as well have aimed for 250k+ raw dps and not worry to much about defense, quite different.

You will still come out with more mitigation than you ever had before by default of the monsters doing less damage than your reduction of abilities. It's honestly no different than them simply nerfing the damage monsters do. Are you angry about that because you could have geared for more damage if the balance had been the same the whole time? At this point, it's just complaining.

You can keep your same gear, same abilities, and have an even easier time than you've ever had. OR, you can switch abilities and/or gear how you please and have an easier time than you've ever had.

On another angle, I finished Inferno with only 20k dps and 600-650 resists unbuffed. Not sure where the problem could even be with your stats if it made your gear slightly worse, which it does not.

[Redblade]

You will still come out with more mitigation than you ever had before by default of the monsters doing less damage than your reduction of abilities. It's honestly no different than them simply nerfing the damage monsters do. Are you angry about that because you could have geared for more damage if the balance had been the same the whole time? At this point, it's just complaining.

Perhaps you see it as only complaining, although I don't see you sitting here with 1k hours invested and around half a billion in gear that is bought with the sole intent of taking advantage of the armor and all resist increases, if you had then you might have seen it differently.

You can keep your same gear, same abilities, and have an even easier time than you've ever had. OR, you can switch abilities and/or gear how you please and have an easier time than you've ever had.

Yes I should be grateful as well that I can replace my 500m+ gear just because Blizzard can't make their fucking minds up right? Just so you get it, I can't change skills for more DPS, there is no possible skill to use, you see the other armor and force weapon effects that's based on Attacks have a chance or On hit don't work with Archon which leaves only 5% crit and even with the 50% nerfed returns on force armor with prismatic it just can't compete.

In the end the nerf benefits players that didn't spend hundreds of millions but make little to no difference to the once that did besides devaluing their gear yet again.

On another angle, I finished Inferno with only 20k dps and 600-650 resists unbuffed.

I finished it pre any nerfs, it has nothing to do with the gear perfection end-game.

Not sure where the problem could even be with your stats if it made your gear slightly worse, which it does not.

It does make my gear worse, a player with 100 AR and 1000 Armor would get 140 AR and 1650 Armor, a player with 1000 AR and 10000 Armor would get 1400 AR and 16500 Armor, simply put, the better gear you have as base the better your return is, they are nerfing the percentages on force armor which give less return for your money. That is the problem, it has nothing to do with finishing the game, hell I have not been in act 4 for surely a month.

But hey I'm sure you would be fine with One With Everything being changed to only give 50% to the other resists, right?

[Leonard McCoy]

Yes I should be grateful as well that I can replace my 500m+ gear just because Blizzard can't make their fucking minds up right? Just so you get it, I can't change skills for more DPS, there is no possible skill to use, you see the other armor and force weapon effects that's based on Attacks have a chance or On hit don't work with Archon which leaves only 5% crit and even with the 50% nerfed returns on force armor with prismatic it just can't compete.

In the end the nerf benefits players that didn't spend hundreds of millions but make little to no difference to the once that did besides devaluing their gear yet again.
?

Look at some point you were gonna have to accept that your gear was gonna be junk. I mean it should have been evident to you that this game was gonna be balanced like d2 was but even more than that balanced like an mmo. Considering the level of "testing" that went on before the game was released it should have also been fairly evident that balance was gonna be a problem. Theirfor all that gear you thought was best, well out the fucking window. Look even if you just accept that eventually an xpac will come out with more gear and possibly more levels, then your gear will be junk. Welcome to the new MMO diablo.

[Redblade]

Look at some point you were gonna have to accept that your gear was gonna be junk.

Accept at some point for sure, like an expansion for example, this change to promote the pipe dream of skill diversity is not something one should have to accept and especially not be happy about, IAS nerf was more than enough of a disruption but that was early enough to let it slide, this is now what, 4-5 months in.

[Kittyvicious]

Perhaps you see it as only complaining, although I don't see you sitting here with 1k hours invested and around half a billion in gear that is bought with the sole intent of taking advantage of the armor and all resist increases, if you had then you might have seen it differently.

"The benefit of these skills is greater at higher levels of Armor and Resistance, so let’s assume very high numbers of each. Suppose a wizard has 6000 Armor and 800 Resist before Prismatic Armor. Assuming a level 63 enemy:

• In 1.0.4 this translates to 9900 Armor (75.86% mitigation) and 1120 Resist (78.05% mitigation) with Prismatic Armor, for a total mitigation of 94.70%
• In 1.0.5 this will be 8100 Armor (72.00% mitigation) and 1000 Resist (76.05% mitigation) with Prismatic Armor, for a total mitigation of 93.29%
• If a monster hits for 50,000 damage, then the damage taken by the wizard will go from 2650 damage to 3355 damage.
• This means incoming damage would have to be less than 79% of the current value (2650 /3355) in order for it to feel the same after 1.0.5.

Based on this it’s clear that in order to ensure 1.0.5 is a net buff for all wizards we’d have to reduce incoming monster damage by at least 21%. Prismatic Armor still provides a significant boost to survivability, but it should no longer feel mandatory, opening up other options such as a more offensively minded Storm Armor (which is getting buffed in 1.0.5)."

But hey I'm sure you would be fine with One With Everything being changed to only give 50% to the other resists, right?

They should have included it in this round of nerfs, but apparently it is so broken it would ruin the math on everything else. To be honest, I think that OwE needs to be either given across the board or there should be no individual resists at all. Just flat resist.

[Redblade]

"The benefit of these skills is greater at higher levels of Armor and Resistance, so let’s assume very high numbers of each. Suppose a wizard has 6000 Armor and 800 Resist before Prismatic Armor. Assuming a level 63 enemy:

• In 1.0.4 this translates to 9900 Armor (75.86% mitigation) and 1120 Resist (78.05% mitigation) with Prismatic Armor, for a total mitigation of 94.70%
• In 1.0.5 this will be 8100 Armor (72.00% mitigation) and 1000 Resist (76.05% mitigation) with Prismatic Armor, for a total mitigation of 93.29%
• If a monster hits for 50,000 damage, then the damage taken by the wizard will go from 2650 damage to 3355 damage.
• This means incoming damage would have to be less than 79% of the current value (2650 /3355) in order for it to feel the same after 1.0.5.

Based on this it’s clear that in order to ensure 1.0.5 is a net buff for all wizards we’d have to reduce incoming monster damage by at least 21%. Prismatic Armor still provides a significant boost to survivability, but it should no longer feel mandatory, opening up other options such as a more offensively minded Storm Armor (which is getting buffed in 1.0.5)."

You are still missing the point and I'm not going to explain again.

They should have included it in this round of nerfs, but apparently it is so broken it would ruin the math on everything else. To be honest, I think that OwE needs to be either given across the board or there should be no individual resists at all. Just flat resist.

They should have included it but didn't as, and I quote, Changes to One With Everything heavily impact existing monk gear. We still plan on addressing this in the future but will do so in a way that does not invalidate the gear monks have invested in, guess it's only monks gearing that needs consideration.

In the end it's pointless to nerf either this far in to the game, build diversity is a pipe dream, players will figure out what's most efficient and use that and gear with that in mind, disrupting that balance to chase some unachievable goal only creates frustration, not to mention that the players are pushed in to asking them self why bother if the goal post is moved a bit to the right one month a bit to the left next and in a few months more it will be moved further away, quite simply it breaks the gear perfection end game.

[Ogretron]

Just like Diablo 2 it was terrible before LoD anyone whos played D2 can tell you that

Hopefully it will be the same and I really do mean D2 was T E R R I B LE like pretty bad before that expansion came out

Couldn't be more wrong as I loved D2 before LoD. Everything that is wrong with D3 can't be fixed with expansions.

OT - Yes, I believe the game will continue to get better. Blizzard has realized its mistakes so they will improve it as much as possible. Not expecting too much here.

[whatthefudge]

I like how this moron thinks his all resist gear is going to be useless with the 1.0.5 patch. Your gear will be equally as effective as it was pre-patch, it will just be more comparable to other gear. Except, the more defensive gear will still be advantageous to other gear when you raise monster power.

Additionally, your argument that build diversity is only a pipe dream is hilarious. Its only a pipe dream if you assume all players have the same amount of insane investment into the game, which is false. For example, if you think every barbarian is playing a sprint/WW you'd be horribly mistaken. Before you respond with some bullshit like "hurr durp anyone not using optimal builds is an idiot and shouldn't be playing" please go hang yourself. Enjoyment is measured on an individual basis.

But really, the only reason I am here is to tell you that you're a fucking idiot. Don't worry about responding, this is my call out crybabies for being complete morons account and will be disciplined shortly.

---------- Post added 2012-09-22 at 01:52 AM ----------

Couldn't be more wrong as I loved D2 before LoD. Everything that is wrong with D3 can't be fixed with expansions.

OT - Yes, I believe the game will continue to get better. Blizzard has realized its mistakes so they will improve it as much as possible. Not expecting too much here.

"My opinion negates your opinion because I said so."

Infracted

[Redblade]

Your gear will be equally as effective as it was pre-patch, it will just be more comparable to other gear.

Hence devalued, something that was one of my complaints.

Except, the more defensive gear will still be advantageous to other gear when you raise monster power.

You see this is where my issue is, by decreasing the percentages that force armor with prismatic gives they effectively make my gear less effective in your scenario, I'll illustrate the issue for you.

Pre nerf:
Before force armor with prismatic: 740 AR, 4383 Armor.
After force armor with prismatic: 1068 AR, 7097 Armor.
Total benefit: 328 AR, 2714 Armor.

Post nerf:
Before force armor with prismatic: 740 AR, 4383 Armor.
After force armor with prismatic: 925 AR, 5917 Armor.
Total benefit: 185 AR, 1534 Armor.

As you can see the benefit of spending large amounts of gold stacking high armor and resists gets diminished by quite a bit.

[Leonard McCoy]

Accept at some point for sure, like an expansion for example, this change to promote the pipe dream of skill diversity is not something one should have to accept and especially not be happy about, IAS nerf was more than enough of a disruption but that was early enough to let it slide, this is now what, 4-5 months in.

I wouldn't call it exactly a pipe dream. I for one will be pretty happy to not have to keep warcry on my bar. At the same time this is what betas are for. IAS was pretty bad I agree and honestly it didn't help skill diversity at all. In fact the nerf removed many potentially viable builds. This current list of changes and the nerfs to inferno difficulty all will do much more to assist in that.

[Kittyvicious]

You are still missing the point and I'm not going to explain again.

No clearly you are, so there's no need to talk to people like they are your children. A buff is a buff. All classes will receive a net buff. You will be MORE EFFECTIVE than you ever were. Any argument to the contrary is just contrived nonsense. My gear isn't as good because I spent lots of money and now everyone's gear got better, but my gear didn't get better by *enough* to justify the money I spent in the past.

Hrm...ok. At the risk of beginning a hostile conversation with you, I'll ignore your obvious bait and just say we will have to agree to disagree.

[Redblade]

No clearly you are, so there's no need to talk to people like they are your children. A buff is a buff. All classes will receive a net buff. You will be MORE EFFECTIVE than you ever were. Any argument to the contrary is just contrived nonsense. My gear isn't as good because I spent lots of money and now everyone's gear got better, but my gear didn't get better by *enough* to justify the money I spent in the past.

Hrm...ok. At the risk of beginning a hostile conversation with you, I'll ignore your obvious bait and just say we will have to agree to disagree.

It's only a buff if you don't take the new ability to scale the difficulty up, once you take that in to account my net loss in stats will matter and affect me in a negative way. And it really isn't a buff to the gear, and the efficiency you are talking about only works in the same difficulty setting, when scaling it up my net loss due to the percentage nerf becomes more and more substantial the further you scale it.

And really I didn't say everyone got better gear nor that it wasn't as good because I spent lots of money on it, to be quite blunt just using that argument is beneath you.

[Kittyvicious]

And really I didn't say everyone got better gear nor that it wasn't as good because I spent lots of money on it, to be quite blunt just using that argument is beneath you.

I meant gold, not actual money. Sorry for the misconception. I definitely did not intend it to be taken that way. But even so, I'm sure you are still accurate in the judgment, so I apologize.

Also, you are entirely valid in the monster power scaling up. They effectively reset the level of your gear going forward, so that part is absolute shit. I can see where you are coming from now

[Sydänyö]

Any good developer (and I still believe Blizzard is a good developer regardless of this game) want's feedback on what you expected and how it didn't measure up to that. They also would want to know what they added to the game that worked and what made you come back so they know for future reference and design what worked and what didnt.

I agree. That feedback should be given directly to the developers, not within and as some frustration-venting replies or threads on third-party forums which the actual developers and representatives obviously do not actively use, regardless of what they say in their PR fluff.

As for you and other people on this forum why would you care either way?

Why do people, who want to use forums to discuss a game in a civilized manner, with no hatred, with calm, cold logic, care, when a certain handful of people, the same culprits time and time again, month after month, keep bringing the level of discourse down with their clear and blunt impassioned hate speech, which they of course claim is "giving feedback", being so frustrated and disappointed, trying to indoctrinate others into this mindset that game A is shit because they don't like it, and everyone should hear about it, want those people to give their calm opinions and keep the hateboi mindset out of the forums?

Why do people who use a basketball court to play basketball want a bunch of thugs and druggies to stop invading their court?

The reason is simple: you don't like the game. We get it. No need to repeat yourself at fixed intervals month after month. Now go about your business and let us use the forums to discuss the game, a game which you no longer play.

It is however entirely fucking meaningless. We have criticism. You don't like it thats to bad we didn't ask you. Piss off.

Criticism is fine. That's not what you have. I'm starting to believe you are entirely unable to express actual constructive criticism. Being a loudmouth with froth on your lip, yelling to any passerby your own views doesn't equate to having criticism. The point is not in having an opinion. Everyone should have an opinion. The point is in expressing yourself, debating people intelligently and not throwing out opinionated bullshit like "game X is shit end of discussion". The point is in accepting that something didn't work for you, accepting that it worked for some other people, forgetting about it and moving on.

There are people who take to the streets with plaques in hand, trying to make sure everyone in the world hears their voice, and understands that their position is the correct one. This is all well and fine if it's a question of them not having any other choice. This is all well and fine if they're fighting some grave injustice.

When it comes to something as irrelevant as a computer game though, waving your virtual plaque, instead of forgetting about it and moving on, just makes you look like a douche.

[Leonard McCoy]

I agree. That feedback should be given directly to the developers, not within and as some frustration-venting replies or threads on third-party forums which the actual developers and representatives obviously do not actively use, regardless of what they say in their PR fluff.

What a joke. Your kidding right? I mean they tell us they view these websites (which they do believe me) but you don't accept that and refuse to acknowledge they do. Like what sense is their having any discussion with you? Even when the developers say they do something you refuse to believe it. A couple days ago I had a kid in one of my networking classes who insisted 2exp2-2=5. He went back and forth for a bit with the teacher who finally smiled and said "okay your right" and moved on to teaching the rest of the lesson with the full understanding that everyone in the class knew the correct answer was 2. You are that same kid. You literally cannot accept something factual. Admitted to by the very same people who made the game your attempting to defend. It's ludicrous to argue with you and a waste of time. For all my vitriol and anger about the game I can have conversations with people that don't always end in a fucking wall. Except you because your a wall and trying to break that wall of ignorance is sheer impossible.

I will be moving on from this thread and from you. I never see you respond to my criticism or anyone's intellectually or reasonably in fact the criticism you level against me is the exact same one I level against you. Your defense of the game revolves around "MOVE ON GUYS", not actually having it out with the flaws of the game because you can't actually excuse them in any way. You are the definition of apologist. Here's a fucking thought. Instead of telling us to move on Why don't you move the fuck on and stop responding to every criticism of the game with your tired lame defense and let us discuss as reasonable adults what we think is wrong with it I will still voice my criticism of this game on this forum and many others but as far as you and your ignorant defense of everything this game is about you no longer need worry about it.

[dd614]

This game is utter trash. The loot system is the most broken thing I've ever seen in a video game. I've lost count the amount of times I've filled my bags 3x over in a farming run and have not one be able to be AH'd for more than a couple thousand at best. Farming is too random and upgrades cost 30-300 million each. It's just garbage. I literally can't remember the last upgrade I've received from a drop in game.

The game was designed for players to use the RMAH to max their character. There's no way around it. That makes it trash in my opinion.

[hulkgor]

Of course Diablo 3 will become better over time, that was never the issue. Will it ever get to the level of quality that avid diablo fans desired? Who knows.

[Leonard McCoy]

Of course Diablo 3 will become better over time, that was never the issue. Will it ever get to the level of quality that avid diablo fans desired? Who knows.

I doubt it. At least not without the purchase of an expansion at any rate.

[Maconi]

IMO Blizzard's only future in game development is to continue to try to push SC2 as an esport and to continue development for WoW until they can get Titan out (assuming that project wasn't secretly dropped already). Diablo has no place in their future, it should be buried and forgotten along with the Warcraft series.

[Nerraw]

I doubt it. At least not without the purchase of an expansion at any rate.

Vanilla D2 didn't exactly get all the new stuff either. Runewords, extra chest storage, Pandemonium event, etc. You had to buy those features too. It's just what the gaming industry is and has been for a very long time.

---------- Post added 2012-09-22 at 09:09 PM ----------

IMO Blizzard's only future in game development is to continue to try to push SC2 as an esport and to continue development for WoW until they can get Titan out (assuming that project wasn't secretly dropped already). Diablo has no place in their future, it should be buried and forgotten along with the Warcraft series.

It's not dropped. In fact, it looks like it's going full-scale pretty soon. They've been ramping up their search for talented developers recently, especially with the job openings last week for their "unannounced MMO".