The future of Diablo 3

[Leonard McCoy]

I was talking about content, level cap increases and such that is mentioned as a miracle way to get players back, none of that matters if you don't like the concept of gear perfection and lets be honest here, the bulk of the players that left wasn't players that like gear perfection but disliked the D3 version of it, I'm betting it's people who didn't like the concept in the first place. So even if you tweak the core of gear perfection it still wouldn't matter much, more perhaps then other ways but not much in the big picture.

Uhhh I'm not sure you can say that either way. Look the model worked before. It drew alot of people to diablo 2. Granted d3 sold like millions so their was gonna be a segment of the population that didn't understand what it was getting into but the model itself is sound and has worked in the past for many games not just diablo 2. Clearly something is boffo with it and if it were fixed I don't think you'd need content. The core of the game is simply fucked and that's why it drove most people away.

[Redblade]

Uhhh I'm not sure you can say that either way. Look the model worked before. It drew alot of people to diablo 2. Granted d3 sold like millions so their was gonna be a segment of the population that didn't understand what it was getting into but the model itself is sound and has worked in the past for many games not just diablo 2. Clearly something is boffo with it and if it were fixed I don't think you'd need content. The core of the game is simply fucked and that's why it drove most people away.

I'm not disagreeing with you, I just think the group of players you are talking about is small, especially compared to the bulk of the players that left, players that from where I stand had or would have had issues with the core game of both D2 & D3. So even if you would get all the players back that liked D2 but didn't enjoy D3 to the point that they stopped playing, I'd still say it wouldn't make much of a difference numbers wise.

Would be interesting to know how many played D2 actively and how many currently play D3 actively to compare and possibly back my theory up.

[Leonard McCoy]

I'm not disagreeing with you, I just think the group of players you are talking about is small, especially compared to the bulk of the players that left, players that from where I stand had or would have had issues with the core game of both D2 & D3. So even if you would get all the players back that liked D2 but didn't enjoy D3 to the point that they stopped playing, I'd still say it wouldn't make much of a difference numbers wise.

Would be interesting to know how many played D2 actively and how many currently play D3 actively to compare and possibly back my theory up.

Yea it would be nice to get some figures. I agree players left because they didn't know what they were getting into. At the same time I'm not sure how big that group is. Look as I said the model worked before. Like we'd have to know how many people bought and played diablo 2 and stuck with it. D2 was a pretty big change from D1 and people went for D2. They struck something in the core of D2 that resonated with people.

Without figures it's impossible to say. My suspicion is your are definitely partially correct but I'm not altogether convinced that a large chunk of players left because they dislike the core of the item hunt. That kind of game play I think is very seminal and very engaging WHEN it actually works. People like getting gear in other games, why wouldn't they like getting gear in d3?

[Redblade]

People like getting gear in other games, why wouldn't they like getting gear in d3?

Because anything that takes effort these days is labeled as a grind and as such undesirable.

[Leonard McCoy]

Because anything that takes effort these days is labeled as a grind and as such undesirable.

That's certainly one way to look at it. Do you think it's a fair argument to say that Blizzard had failed to recognize this and adjust accordingly?

[Abysal]

1. D3 will get better.
2. D3 was never a bad game.

People have come to expect far too much out of their games these days. There was a time when a game like Pong could be universally loved by all. It was original and new. If D3 was the first game ever released I guarantee you it'd have got rave reviews.

Blizzard especially suffers from this because they've had such amazing games in the past. Eventually there comes a point when you've set a bar so high for yourself that you can never achieve it. That's when you see all this disappointment.

[Firecrest]

1. D3 will get better.
2. D3 was never a bad game.

People have come to expect far too much out of their games these days. There was a time when a game like Pong could be universally loved by all. It was original and new. If D3 was the first game ever released I guarantee you it'd have got rave reviews.

Yeah. And if Catwoman was the first movie ever released I guarantee you it'd have got rave reviews. If Jarjar Binks was first CGI character ever released I guarantee you it'd have got rave reviews.

"If impossible hypothetical situation X, then proof of point Y" is completely stupid.

Blizzard especially suffers from this because they've had such amazing games in the past. Eventually there comes a point when you've set a bar so high for yourself that you can never achieve it. That's when you see all this disappointment.

The bar is set no higher than the same level they've achieved in the past. It's like you're saying we all expected them to blow their precedence out of the water. We just want the same level they've provided before.

[Redblade]

That's certainly one way to look at it. Do you think it's a fair argument to say that Blizzard had failed to recognize this and adjust accordingly?

While I do think D3 has it's shortcomings I don't think it has much to do with the grindy nature of the game, even if the loot system where a bit less random and less focused on primary stats and weapon it would ultimately be the same grind in the end, the goal post would just be moved sideways instead of closer or further away as many seem to think.

Kevin Smith said I know my audience and I don’t have to spend money to reach them. on the topic of advertising in the movie business, it translates fairly well to niche games like Diablo with it's grindy end game. There is very little point trying to make the game for other than your fan base as it will drive away as many as you gain, at least to the point where the game no longer is a Diablo game (or other niche game).

[Leonard McCoy]

While I do think D3 has it's shortcomings I don't think it has much to do with the grindy nature of the game, even if the loot system where a bit less random and less focused on primary stats and weapon it would ultimately be the same grind in the end, the goal post would just be moved sideways instead of closer or further away as many seem to think.

Kevin Smith said I know my audience and I don’t have to spend money to reach them. on the topic of advertising in the movie business, it translates fairly well to niche games like Diablo with it's grindy end game. There is very little point trying to make the game for other than your fan base as it will drive away as many as you gain, at least to the point where the game no longer is a Diablo game (or other niche game).

Well then I have to ask Who did they make this game for? Look I know about 30 d2 vets, I played the game for years and only 2 of them are left playing. That's anecdotal but it should tell us that even members of their "fan base" are unhappy with the game. So if they didn't make it for a broader audience and they didn't make it for their old school fans... who did they make it for?

[Deleted]

Just like Diablo 2 it was terrible before LoD anyone whos played D2 can tell you that

Hopefully it will be the same and I really do mean D2 was T E R R I B LE like pretty bad before that expansion came out

I really liked diablo 2 when it came out, not as much as after lod, obviously, but we had great fun with a group of friends clearing hell in diablo 2 lan-ing.

---------- Post added 2012-09-21 at 05:22 AM ----------

- PS. What's wrong with a grind? Clearing act 3-4, Is exactly the same as doing a silly raid in world of warcraft, except that the latter you can do once per week, and are guaranteed loot that might or might not be good for you.

[Cairhiin]

Just like Diablo 2 it was terrible before LoD anyone whos played D2 can tell you that

Hopefully it will be the same and I really do mean D2 was T E R R I B LE like pretty bad before that expansion came out

Agree with Apathy. The game is heading the right direction, and is much like D2 Classic. It really does require an expansion that offers a lot of interesting new stuff that allows you to customize your character like Charms, Rune Words, more Gems, more INTERESTING Affixes and Suffixes. I played Torchlight II last night and the first thing that struck me is how much better the items are in TL2. Got to level 13 last night and already had 3 pieces of a low level set with loads of interesting stats. This is the main issue with Diablo 3.

Items are too bland mostly because all classes revolve around 2 main stats and the rest is just useless to them. Items need more variety without increasing the randomness. Remove the weapon dependency, and increase the viability of sub optimal stats for a start. Then add items aimed at specific builds so you can truly specialize, and you'll see more variation in builds, and players. Items with +3 to Whirlwind, and +2 to Barbarian skills are more interesting than 200 Int, 200 Vit, 50 Res All, 10% Crit. Furthermore, put a cap on resistances and scale damage accordingly.

[Deepsidedj]

Patch 1.01 = More lootz
Patch 1.02 = Even more loot
Patch 1.03 = EVEN more loot
Patch 1.04 = MORE LOOOOOT
Patch 1.05 = more loot.

[Regalbeast]

I played D3 a lot when it first came out. I pretty much got burnt out/sick of it, and I don't play anymore. I will probably come back when there is PVP. But honestly, how different could they make they game? how much more attractive could they really make it to those of us that have left or got burnt out?

[Redblade]

Well then I have to ask Who did they make this game for? Look I know about 30 d2 vets, I played the game for years and only 2 of them are left playing. That's anecdotal but it should tell us that even members of their "fan base" are unhappy with the game. So if they didn't make it for a broader audience and they didn't make it for their old school fans... who did they make it for?

Well that's the problem, they tried to make it for a wider audience thus neglecting the more hardcore D2 fans which the game should have been made for, now they are in the middle not really attracting either side, if they would change it in favor for the D2 fans they would lose some players that don't approve of those changes and it would even out.

The problem is the same as you see with WoW (imo), they are and have been trying hard to get the players they don't have and their efforts to do so have cost them players they had, I know many players that left, not because of age family or burnout that is the popular reasons for people to blame, but simply because Blizzard started to cater to an audience they didn't have yet thus neglecting the one they had.

Sadly money plays to much of a role in todays game development, it's no longer good enough to make a good game that pays the bills and over time helps you fund new projects, these days it's about trying to cater to everyone to get millions of units sold and hopefully give just enough to every player type that they stick around while you string them along with promises of this and that and never really provide a good product for any of the players because it simply pays more.

[Yalingo]

If they get PVP right, there is a reason to play diablo again.

The entire reason for wanting better loot in d2, was not to beat the same bosses quicker, it was to kick anyone's arse who went hostile or challenged you to a duel. D2 just allowed you to do it with cheats and dupes. D3 allows you to do it with AH/RMAH, now it just needs PVP.

[Diozer]

I was so hoping D3 would be my Wow ending game, but like most hopes! they just fade.

[Leonard McCoy]

Well that's the problem, they tried to make it for a wider audience thus neglecting the more hardcore D2 fans which the game should have been made for, now they are in the middle not really attracting either side, if they would change it in favor for the D2 fans they would lose some players that don't approve of those changes and it would even out.

The problem is the same as you see with WoW (imo), they are and have been trying hard to get the players they don't have and their efforts to do so have cost them players they had, I know many players that left, not because of age family or burnout that is the popular reasons for people to blame, but simply because Blizzard started to cater to an audience they didn't have yet thus neglecting the one they had.

Sadly money plays to much of a role in todays game development, it's no longer good enough to make a good game that pays the bills and over time helps you fund new projects, these days it's about trying to cater to everyone to get millions of units sold and hopefully give just enough to every player type that they stick around while you string them along with promises of this and that and never really provide a good product for any of the players because it simply pays more.

I'm glad we agree. Simply the game tries to appeal to everyone but in the end appeals to no one. Or next to no one at any rate. Now in Warcraft it's a bit different. You can build all sorts of content and that's what their attempting to do in MoP. Have all sorts of flavors of ice cream for people to use. Diablo doesn't have that luxury.

[Pool of the Dead]

I've actually gone back to D3 in the last couple of weeks and have put more time into now, then i did at release.

It is good currently and looks to be getting better.

[diox990]

I think my standars were to high for Diablo 3.
I think it's a good game and that it will get better because the devs seems to be trying.
Now if I could forget the lore of Diablo 3 it would be better...

[Radalek]

Sooo...1.0.5 patch notes are out and what do people make of it?
They basically listened to every complaint players had and I think D3 is really moving in a good direction. They are fixing so many things again and this patch will bring some more people back based on reactions so far. Game is fluid, it looks great. If they hit it right with PvP and add some end game incentives (like endless dungeons) and keep adding more interesting items we might look at another D2 LOD scenario on a much bigger scale this time.