View Poll Results: 10 man VS 25 man

Voters
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  • 10 Man

    68 38.42%
  • 25 Man

    106 59.89%
  • LFR

    2 1.13%
  • Don't raid

    1 0.56%
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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Drogoh View Post
    10 man also forced you to have, imo, a better group as one person failing at his task could inherently kill your raid whereas in 25 man you can still drag a few through kind of like in MC or BWL just not to that extreme. So that is my opinion, what is yours?
    I don't know what kind of raid content you did, but in any fight that actually matters one person failing in a 25 man raid was also a wipe. And it's a lot harder to get 25 people to all not fail than 10.

  2. #22
    Personally prefering 25 man. But since Blizz is keeping introducing advantages for the stronger faction (on our server the H:A ratio went from about 0.35:1 to 0.18:1 only during Cataclysm according to wowprogress) and no real reason to keep organizing 25 man raids other than personal preference, all other 25 man guilds on our server / faction broke. We're the only one left, at times struggling with keeping the raid full, and almost forced to take everyone willing to transfer to our server to raid with us. Sometimes (hopefully not in the near future) we're going to be forced to do 10 man raids.

  3. #23
    Mechagnome Italiandk's Avatar
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    25 man for sure. 10 man is more about a little group of "friends" while 25 man is more about epicness of the encounters.

    LFR is not a valid option, when we talk about raiding it's all about 10 man or 25 man, LFR is played by strangers and non-raiders so it's not a raid in it's fullness.

  4. #24
    Scarab Lord Howard Moon's Avatar
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    To me 25man just felt much more epic. You shall be missed, 25man raiding!
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  5. #25
    Stood in the Fire Bombino's Avatar
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    I prefer 25 big time. It takes a lot more effort, and thus the feeling of accomplishment (for me) is much, much bigger than doing it with 10. I'd really love to see how many participate in the poll.

    I think a big percentage of raiders choose 10s because it's the path of least resistance towards the same rewards. But, for me, it makes raiding much less "epic".

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by zeophor View Post
    I don't know what kind of raid content you did, but in any fight that actually matters one person failing in a 25 man raid was also a wipe. And it's a lot harder to get 25 people to all not fail than 10.
    I have raided plenty of 25 mans hard modes and normal. In 25 man you can afford to have a couple people not doing up to par DPS (within reason) or have 1 or 2 people die midway through an encounter and still have a strong chance of killing the boss, in 10 man you don't have that luxury. Obviously there are some fights that even one or two people in a 25 man failing can screw up but the majority are more forgiving. But again its just opinion everyone has one hence the reason for the poll!

  7. #27
    I prefer 10-man to 25 for the same reason I prefer 10 or 15 person pvp groups to 40man (bye bye IoC and AV, blacklist ftw). I like when individual contributions have more impact. Your performance in a 10man carries more weight than in a 25. Also it's easier to get to know (and recruit for) 9 other raiders than 24. I have a lot of admiration for those who run 25-man guilds, deal with all the drama etc.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Drogoh View Post
    In 25 man you can afford to have a couple people not doing up to par DPS (within reason) or have 1 or 2 people die midway through an encounter and still have a strong chance of killing the boss, in 10 man you don't have that luxury.
    Then you're not pushing hard. When you're pushing as hard as you can (a.k.a. progression raiding), you will always be at a boss where you're just at the edge of your raid's performance. One mistake, one death and you don't meet the DPS requirement, etc.

    As for the comparison to 10 mans, it's fundamentally the same. When you push as hard as you can on progress, your 10 man is also going to be at a boss that is just at the edge of your raid's capabilities. The difference is, that it's much easier to get 10 people to perform optimally without a mistake than it is to get 25 people to do so.

    As for DPS checks, that's purely a matter of tuning whether the requirement is effectively tighter for 10 or 25. There have been DPS checks where 10 mans have easier time, and ones where 10 mans have a harder time than 25 mans.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by zeophor View Post
    Then you're not pushing hard. When you're pushing as hard as you can (a.k.a. progression raiding), you will always be at a boss where you're just at the edge of your raid's performance. One mistake, one death and you don't meet the DPS requirement, etc.
    People cant grasp the difference between personal skill and team skill, or even worse skill variance :S
    You try to explain to a guy the obvious, but if the mind is not open he will never get it.

    Chances are, that in a 25 man group that you re amongst the best performers, you re way more ahead in skill than the underperformers. The underperformers are drugging you to fights that if all goes well your skill is not even tested. Thus you get the impression "easy 25".
    If things dont go well and the underperformers die, the fight is still doable, but the good players just need to "show skill" this time. The result though? The fight ends and those good players realize that they practically 20 manned or 22 manned a 25 man encounter. The inevevitable verdict? "Easy 25"!

    Now lets go to the 10 man that is consisted by the buddies you met in the past, with similar skill to yours. You re all on the same page of the book thus you re attempting encounters that are challenging to all and not only to the "underperformers" of your previous 25. You do good tries and if one person dies you wipe. Result? The inevitable thought: "hard 10 mans"!

    Those people should actually open their mind and to be able to see the truth. Possible? Unlikely. Keep trying to explain it though, you re doing well
    Last edited by Archidamos; 2012-09-21 at 12:22 AM.

  10. #30
    I prefer 25 mans. Raids, just in the name, sound like they should be done with a large group. 10 mans can be fun with a group of close friends, but they need to be on the same page as you.

  11. #31
    25 man with a good´n´tight semi-hardcore guild, where no-one comes late to raids, and if he does he mentions it beforehand.
    where everyone tries to max-out his char and his play.
    and then i wake up.

  12. #32
    The Patient
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    I'd like to go 25 man if possible. Just because it seems more epic, but getting 25 people together, that speak my native language, haven't been possible for about 18 months on my realm.

    If if were up to me I would gladly make a 25 man guildrun if we accepted englishspeaking people but as I'm not an office in my guild that won't happen unless I move to another guild.

    As for Mop getting even 10 man may not even be possible. Only time will tell.

  13. #33
    Brewmaster ridish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gandrake View Post
    25 has better rewards, but it is easier to play the game with 9 other people as opposed to 24.
    It's easier for the 22 raiders and alot harder for the 3 officer / guild leader / raidleader w/e you have in your grp. Since theres alot more room for failure in the 25 man version. Hagara is a good example. If 1 guy dies during the ice phase it doesn't rly matter, however if 1 guy dies in a 10 man group you've basically wiped. Also theres more CR's in 25 man than there is in 10 man.

  14. #34
    Brewmaster
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    Funny to see there are so many people here who like 25 man raiding.
    While ingame most people choose to go 10 man for whatever reason.

    I like 25 man raiding, because 10 man feels like nothing more then a big dungeon.

  15. #35
    Dreadlord Aquarela's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saligia View Post
    I prefer raiding in 10 man groups because I like feeling as if I am a part of a small, tight-knit group.
    This is what I was going to say.

    10 mans for me, thank you!

  16. #36
    Warchief Sylreick's Avatar
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    I like 10 man, I feel much more useful and less of a "wall-flower".

  17. #37
    I would rather raid 25m normal over 10m heroic anyday. It is a much more fun format.

  18. #38
    10 man raiding is better than leading a 25 man raid.

    See what I did there? lol.

    I love 25 man, it's fun until you realize you are now part of the group of players carrying the others. Doing 10 man with the best players was much more enjoyable than wiping in 25 on heroic Ragnaros with people getting hit by lava waves still.
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  19. #39
    10 is pretty perfect for me, i did raid lots 40s 20s and 25s but smaller grp feels better for me. Wouldnt go under 10 though.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by ridish View Post
    Hagara is a good example. If 1 guy dies during the ice phase it doesn't rly matter, however if 1 guy dies in a 10 man group you've basically wiped. Also theres more CR's in 25 man than there is in 10 man.
    i counter your argument with, there more people there are the more likely you are to see fails even multiple ones.

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