Japanese Islands

[TimTimTim]

Actually anyone who knows anything about the topic knows that nobody was living there. Seriously, even the Chinese isn't contending that it was inhabited, and they are basing their claims to half of the Pacific on insane throw away references in ancient books and shipwrecks. You need to have better evidence than "I guessed" and an obvious argument from ignorance.


The Japanese government began conducting surveys in 1885 and found no one for 10 years before they finally annexed it. Again, you'll need to have a better argument than an argument from ignorance.

They took it after winning 1st sino japanese war. If there was no1 there. Why didn't they take it earlier. You don't sound right just because you're a female BE ret pally making insults; you sound right with quoted evidence, which you havn't provided any. If this was a classroom, would you be so aggressive?
From the larger standpoint, it would be better for American interest to let Japan have the islands. China's hold on the western pacific would be weakened.

[obdigore]

Did you just claim Semaphore does not know what hes talking about because of a forum avatar?

[semaphore]

The things Japan did during WW2 is what sparks this conflict.

No it isn't. Oil did. These islands have nothing to do with WW2, they were annexed in the 19th century.

Many, if not all, denied or completely ignored by Japan.

Like what? Chinese propaganda keep saying this but I've yet to see an actual example.

---------- Post added 2012-09-20 at 06:17 AM ----------

They took it after winning 1st sino japanese war. If there was no1 there. Why didn't they take it earlier.

They weren't sure of their own power then. They didn't want to appear to be expansionist. Then they crushed China.

You don't sound right just because you're a female BE ret pally making insults; you sound right with quoted evidence, which you havn't provided any. If this was a classroom, would you be so aggressive?

It's a mage... >_<

And I didn't insult you, I said you were making arguments from ignorance, which you were and still are.

[Kivimetsan]

Basically Japan and China both want the resources. The Chinese government and people are rallying around it as if its a part of there nation... they've become rediculously nationalistic, especially since this week marks the anniversary of the sino-japanese war.
The Japanese are mad because they don't want to look like sissy's on the world stage and are definitely not backing down.
Either way, one of the two will end up with it... all it will take is some idiot in the military to say something or do something and BOOM!

[PizzaSHARK]

Did you just claim Semaphore does not know what hes talking about because of a forum avatar?

Oh dear, I think he did.

So what happens if China tries to force their claim? Would the US really be willing to pick a fight with China over some little pissant islands?

[obdigore]

Oh dear, I think he did.

So what happens if China tries to force their claim? Would the US really be willing to pick a fight with China over some little pissant islands?

Your question is more:

'Would the US use this as an excuse to try to curtail what they view as expansionist China?'

Yes. Especially since that the oil there is going to make a ton of money for whichever nation gets it.

[Beavis]

Nothing's going to happen. The JMSDF alone would mop the floor with the PLAN and they know it. My guess is that the Chinese strategy here is to take media attention off the South China Sea and focus it on Sino-Japanese tension. Meanwhile, they can keep expanding into the SCS without as much scrutiny as there was during the summer.

[dotOrion]

Honestly I wasn't even aware Japan was allowed to do anything with their military outside of their territory.

The JSDF is indeed rather crippled by law, but the laws are vague enough to allow for some 'creative' deployments.

For example, the deployment to Iraq.

Then as someone else pointed out, there is the issue of defining "their territory" - which is the whole point of this conflict. The Japanese consider the Senkaku /Diaoyu islands to be their territory, China disagrees.

[Ryuukon]

Last I heard, a private owner owned the islands, who just so happened to be Japanese. Said owner then sold the islands to Japan for a tidy sum.

Private holder to nation, it doesn't matter. Japan now owns the islands, rightfully.

This is an issue for the UN to figure out, not some random message board. And if the UN becomes neutral in their decision (like they usually do), then I am siding with Japan. They paid for the rights of the island, not China. Just because you SAY it's yours doesn't really make it yours.

[Lagwin]

both countries claim the islands and the have been considered Japanese for along while only the Chinese contest it,possibly some Koreans as well.
The Chinese have been foaming at the mouth over the Japanese claim for a few years at least and regularly invade the waters of japan to try make their point in one case ramming a ship into the Japanese coast guard/border control.
Now the Chinese are attacking their own citizens for driving a Japanese car or setting fire to things they believe are Japanese

[Mister K]

Last I heard, a private owner owned the islands, who just so happened to be Japanese. Said owner then sold the islands to Japan for a tidy sum.

Private holder to nation, it doesn't matter. Japan now owns the islands, rightfully.

This is an issue for the UN to figure out, not some random message board. And if the UN becomes neutral in their decision (like they usually do), then I am siding with Japan. They paid for the rights of the island, not China. Just because you SAY it's yours doesn't really make it yours.

I don't think no one is trying to figure this out on some message boards on the internet, its just a open discussion, no need to get serious.

[sizzlinsauce]

12/21/12 it may happen.

[Ave07]

Falkland 2.0?

[hatsune]

Posession is 9/10 of the law desu.

[Deleted]

If i understand this correctly, China wants the island because it did in fact belong to them way back in ancient China. But at some point (1800 i believe) the Japanese conquered those island and kept them until world war 2, when USA conquered the island and gave back the island to Japan in 1972. Doesn't that mean that the islands do in fact belong to Japan?

I think the Chinese extremists need to sit down and think for a while. They want the islands and they wants to create a war with Japan, because of Japans war crime back in 1937. They kept up banners that said "Kill all the Japanese" and "Bloodbath in Tokyo". But the problem is, those war criminals is most likely dead by now and the current generation in Japan have absolutely nothing to do with the events back then. Besides they attacked chains that doesn't belong to Japan in their anti-Japan riot such as Samsung and more recently Rolex. They even assaulted a Chinese man just because he was driving a Toyota.
Rocketnews24 posted a few pictures of Chinas "peaceful" demonstration against Japan.
I've seen loud Japanese protests against China, but i haven't seen any violence or vandalism.

Do they really hate Japan that much, that they're willing to commit a war crime themselves?
How many of Germany's enemies from world war 2 want a bloodbath in Berlin because of Nazi Germany's action?

I think i'm going to support Japan.

[smelltheglove]

Your question is more:

'Would the US use this as an excuse to try to curtail what they view as expansionist China?'

Yes. Especially since that the oil there is going to make a ton of money for whichever nation gets it.

i hope you're wrong, but i dont think you are. this is also a preferable matchup for the US if it wanted to "challenge" china militarily, a naval battle (which this would primarily be) looks a lot better than a large scale land war. it would play to a US strength and pretty much keep china's strength out of play

[Deleted]

Its not like china doesnt have enough land already.

[wdmshmo]

Japanese Self Defense Forces:
Active: ~248k
Reserve: ~58k

US Forces in Japan:
Army: 2,541
Navy: 3,740
Air Force: 12,398
Marines: 17,009

That's a lot of troops already there. Sure, the Chinese Military might be 3 million people strong, and have another ~700 million people fit for service, but do they have the same military technologies we have? Worst case scenario, could they even stop half of the nukes that we could deploy?

[iggie]

Japanese Self Defense Forces:
Active: ~248k
Reserve: ~58k

US Forces in Japan:
Army: 2,541
Navy: 3,740
Air Force: 12,398
Marines: 17,009

That's a lot of troops already there. Sure, the Chinese Military might be 3 million people strong, and have another ~700 million people fit for service, but do they have the same military technologies we have? Worst case scenario, could they even stop half of the nukes that we could deploy?

Given what I've seen from the military (horribly underpaid and forced into service almost due to lack of job options) I don't think they have the same value as a hardened American soldier. I'm certain Japan will sell the Island to China in the end, with both sides claiming victory.

[GreatOak]

Japanese Self Defense Forces:
Active: ~248k
Reserve: ~58k

US Forces in Japan:
Army: 2,541
Navy: 3,740
Air Force: 12,398
Marines: 17,009

That's a lot of troops already there. Sure, the Chinese Military might be 3 million people strong, and have another ~700 million people fit for service, but do they have the same military technologies we have? Worst case scenario, could they even stop half of the nukes that we could deploy?

Doesn't matter anyways since China would never commit economic suicide and possible destruction because of some islands. They aren't stupid. They know they can't take Japan/America.