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  1. #1

    Unleash Elements change

    Hi, i think that "Unleash Elements" should be a passive spell / buff instead of being an activated ability, especially for Enhancement, what do you think about this ?

  2. #2
    Agree totally it should either do damage or get the Inquisition treatment and disappear, I guess the speed boost you get from the Enhanced version could be applied to something else.

  3. #3
    What exactly do you dislike about it? I personally don't like the sound of trading an activated ability for a passive (that will most likely get pruned) that gives us a X% damage increase to fire spells. We don't have that many buttons to press as it is, I don't think having Unleash Flame is gonna hurt anyone.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Ravensword View Post
    Agree totally it should either do damage or get the Inquisition treatment and disappear, I guess the speed boost you get from the Enhanced version could be applied to something else.
    The speed boost can proc when consuming the buff from unleash elements for example.

  5. #5
    Rentaki, unleash elements is one of the prime abilities that should've pruned. It's exactly the kind of ability they were removing from other classes. It does nothing but enhance another ability at this point on cost of a GCD. I guess the only reason they left it in is because otherwise we'd effectively hardly have anythinf left to cast which says a lot.
    Quote Originally Posted by Snorlax View Post
    That's such a terrible way of going about it that I am now 100% positive someone somewhere at Blizz HQ is working on it right now.

  6. #6
    Moderator Blithe's Avatar
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    Unleash Elements is one of those buttons Blizzard was talking about at Blizzcon with the ability prune. Why it's still here goes far beyond me, and I'd rather it just get baked in passively and have Unleashed Fury replaced.
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  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Blithe View Post
    Unleash Elements is one of those buttons Blizzard was talking about at Blizzcon with the ability prune. Why it's still here goes far beyond me, and I'd rather it just get baked in passively and have Unleashed Fury replaced.
    Exactly since it could easily be changed into a buff and spare us a GCD.

  8. #8
    It would be okay if it actually did damage, I have no idea why they removed the damage aspect. Overall they pruned a lot of passive abilities that did not hurt us in any way, while leaving all the clunkiness and annoyance in. Compare unleash with stormlash totem. Stormlash was actual utility, a CD we could pop to do more damage ourselves in PvP and buff the entire raid in PvE, yet it got removed as part of the pruning while we kept one of the worst "buff a spell" mechanics I know. Something that is passive for most other classes.
    Quote Originally Posted by Snorlax View Post
    That's such a terrible way of going about it that I am now 100% positive someone somewhere at Blizz HQ is working on it right now.

  9. #9
    I like it the way it is now especially that I don't need a target to cast it -> can even cast it while in gw for the speed buff

  10. #10
    I don't have any issue with it. I liked the damage component but that was only really useful while farming. As Nebria points out the lack of a target requirement has advantages too, especially now that it has built in speed burst and its CD is reduced by flurry.

    If there is anymore ability pruning/consolidation/overhauls then I think we have much better candidates (CL, Magma, half our talent tiers). Also there are still plenty of classes that are using buff spells on a GCD, so I dont think that is an automatic red flag.

  11. #11
    Immortal Raiju's Avatar
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    CL involves far more thought than UE. Magma can be made into a cooldown again.

    I know it's new, but we shouldn't be fucking PRAISING getting inquisition, one of the big name abilities to get pruned.
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    which is kind of like saying "of COURSE you can't see the unicorns, unicorns are invisible, silly."

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Raiju View Post
    CL involves far more thought than UE. Magma can be made into a cooldown again.

    I know it's new, but we shouldn't be fucking PRAISING getting inquisition, one of the big name abilities to get pruned.
    In practice, UE has always been the Inquisition of Enhancement. Nothing about how we use it 99% of the time has changed. What is different about it is its situation utility -- a range toss vs baked in speed burst. You can very easily make the argument that the speed burst is useful in many more circumstances.

    I'm not saying its a great ability, I'm simply saying that the change is mostly innocuous and I'd much rather they spend that development time addressing abilities and areas of this class that are deficient. I mention CL because our 2-3 target cleave is poor and I think CL is exactly the spell that they should lean on to improve it. With everything else that is going on during AE, I find magma entirely redundant. Liquid Magma is exactly what MT should have been.

  13. #13
    Immortal Raiju's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nazrakin View Post
    In practice, UE has always been the Inquisition of Enhancement. Nothing about how we use it 99% of the time has changed. What is different about it is its situation utility -- a range toss vs baked in speed burst. You can very easily make the argument that the speed burst is useful in many more circumstances.
    PvE perspective? Not a chance. SW is off GCD and is better, with a short enough cd that the times where UE's speed boost will make a difference will be countable on one hand.

    I'm not saying its a great ability, I'm simply saying that the change is mostly innocuous and I'd much rather they spend that development time addressing abilities and areas of this class that are deficient. I mention CL because our 2-3 target cleave is poor and I think CL is exactly the spell that they should lean on to improve it. With everything else that is going on during AE, I find magma entirely redundant. Liquid Magma is exactly what MT should have been.
    A spell that you use rotationally that does nothing directly is exactly what should've been pruned. It doesn't even need a holy power buildup like Inquisition. Blizzard has in their efforts to prune left outliers that need pruning MORE than in the original instance - whereas a lot of out situational utility got sliced off.

    It may have use as an ability (ofcourse, dem damage buffs), but its an absolute insult to our class changes this expansion. It's basically proof of a lack of development.
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    which is kind of like saying "of COURSE you can't see the unicorns, unicorns are invisible, silly."

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Raiju View Post
    PvE perspective? Not a chance. SW is off GCD and is better, with a short enough cd that the times where UE's speed boost will make a difference will be countable on one hand.
    Its not an either or case so it doesnt matter how it compares with SW, you get both. We're comparing it with the old version of UE and the situational utility of a 40yrd toss vs a burst of speed that can maintain fairly high uptimes enough haste. I'll take the latter.

    A spell that you use rotationally that does nothing directly is exactly what should've been pruned. It doesn't even need a holy power buildup like Inquisition. Blizzard has in their efforts to prune left outliers that need pruning MORE than in the original instance - whereas a lot of out situational utility got sliced off.

    It may have use as an ability (ofcourse, dem damage buffs), but its an absolute insult to our class changes this expansion. It's basically proof of a lack of development.
    Thats entirely subjective, I disagree. It doesnt matter to me whether its output is direct or if it just empowers other abilities. In either case I prefer it as a n active ability vs having its residual effects passively attached to others. Also, the fact that it doesnt require build up is exactly why I don't consider it as tedious as inquisition.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Blithe View Post
    Unleash Elements is one of those buttons Blizzard was talking about at Blizzcon with the ability prune. Why it's still here goes far beyond me, and I'd rather it just get baked in passively and have Unleashed Fury replaced.
    They also stated "Abilities that are unreliable are not fun" got pruned... still wondering WHY we still have capacitor totem. Its as unreliable as it gets, compared to other stuns. Yeah, its an AoE stun, its still unreliable and you usually need Totemic Projection to use it correctly, especially in PvP. So there goes that.

    On Topic: I think they should just remove the skill. It's not really doing anything besides giving us Unleashed Wind, which is basically just another attack speed buff, and the 30% extra damage for 2 spells, depending if we actually need to use Nova...

    I'd rather have an empowered Nova/Flame Shock every few seconds passively instead... or at least give the spell something else, something to make it worth actually using on cooldown instead of every 25~ seconds or something.

  16. #16
    Immortal Raiju's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nazrakin View Post
    Its not an either or case so it doesnt matter how it compares with SW, you get both. We're comparing it with the old version of UE and the situational utility of a 40yrd toss vs a burst of speed that can maintain fairly high uptimes enough haste. I'll take the latter.
    Except in any real situation where you have 2 non stacking speed boosts, one is inferior. You can ignore SW if you like, but that's just bad play and makes for an ignorant argument.

    Thats entirely subjective, I disagree. It doesnt matter to me whether its output is direct or if it just empowers other abilities. In either case I prefer it as a n active ability vs having its residual effects passively attached to others. Also, the fact that it doesnt require build up is exactly why I don't consider it as tedious as inquisition.
    Whether we like it or not is subjective, but what it does (and why inquisition was pruned by their own admission) is not. What you prefer has no relevance to that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    which is kind of like saying "of COURSE you can't see the unicorns, unicorns are invisible, silly."

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Raiju View Post
    Except in any real situation where you have 2 non stacking speed boosts, one is inferior. You can ignore SW if you like, but that's just bad play and makes for an ignorant argument.
    There is not a single "real situation" where you will ever have to choose one over the other. So yes, it is a completely worthless comparison. I'll use Spirit Walk when necessary and I'll have the benefit of the perk otherwise.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raiju View Post
    Whether we like it or not is subjective, but what it does (and why inquisition was pruned by their own admission) is not. What you prefer has no relevance to that.
    In a thread that directly asks for opinions about the UE change, subjectivity def carries mucho relevance. I'm not here to explain Blizzard's motives or reasoning. I can only offer my own perspective on the changes, which is that I am not "insulted" by the existence of this ability. I prefer the new proc to the old ranged component. I don't want it to simply become a passive. I hated Inquisition, I don't mind UE.

    The "Well, they got rid of Inquisition so they need to remove UE" is in no way compelling to me. Especially when I look and see that there are still plenty of similar buff abilities in the game. In fact, it kind of seems like Inquisition is the only one that was removed and they've even introduced more -- one of the new Paladin talents is basically Inquisition 2.0. So either there is a misunderstanding about Blizzard's intent with removing Inquisition, they changed their minds, or they've just grossly contradicted themselves... I don't know which it is and, frankly, I don't care since my only concern is how the class feels to me.

  18. #18
    Immortal Raiju's Avatar
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    You could do with giving examples, since other than savage roar (was complained about, and did at least get pandemic treatment) I'm struggling to think of comparable spells.

    Secondly, if you aren't comparing sprint to sprint, then you aren't looking at them in a real situation. Comparing a sprint to a cupcake does noone any good.
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    which is kind of like saying "of COURSE you can't see the unicorns, unicorns are invisible, silly."

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Raiju View Post
    You could do with giving examples, since other than savage roar (was complained about, and did at least get pandemic treatment) I'm struggling to think of comparable spells.

    Secondly, if you aren't comparing sprint to sprint, then you aren't looking at them in a real situation. Comparing a sprint to a cupcake does noone any good.
    What was Inquisition? From where I sit it is an active ability that is a passive damage buff that is used in intervals of 1min or less? If we agree on that then: Savage Roar, Seraphim, Slice n Dice, Berserker Rage, Dark Transformation, Frenzy, Tiger Eye Brew, and the our beloved UE all fit that description. Thats 8 active abilities across 8 separate classes that contribute nothing but passive damage output.

    In which "real situation" won't I have access to both abilities? Is one or the other turned off during PvE? PvP? Farming? Anytime I'm indoors and unable to mount? And while I appreciate the deliciousness of "sprint vs cupcake", you'll have to explain how you're attempting to apply that analogy.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by nazrakin View Post
    What was Inquisition?
    http://wowpedia.org/Inquisition
    Consumes up to 3 Holy Power to increase your Holy Damage by 30% and critical strike chance by 10%. Lasts 20 sec per charge of Holy Power consumed.
    _____________________________________________
    Also known as Kalrell ingame and @Kalrell on Twitters.

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