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  1. #561
    Moderator Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pacumeni View Post
    So, maybe this is just so straightforward that it's just understood by everyone except me... I've never seen any guide evaluate Crit with Elemental Focus taken into consideration. I figure it's up a lot of the time because of Lava Surge procs--more directly, because of the auto-crit on LvB--but I just haven't seen any talk of it.
    It's factored into the valuation of crit that we present. For the most part, to evaluate stat priorities, we're plugging things into simulationcraft, and seeing how changes in statistics affect the DPS. Elemental Focus is definitely getting triggered, and affecting the value of crit. The reason you don't see us doing napkin math is because that's a shortcut, while the sim is actually brute-forcing tens of thousands of simulated minutes of combat while running all the necessary shortcut-free mathematics. It's significantly more accurate, and faster, than trying to napkin-math the values.

    We don't evaluate Crit without Elemental Focus, basically, because you'll always have it. It's already baked into our numbers.

  2. #562
    question
    got the flex chest, I guess not worth replacing the normal t15 one yet since I'll loose the t15 4piece in the process right?

  3. #563
    High Overlord Skurkitty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enosh View Post
    question
    got the flex chest, I guess not worth replacing the normal t15 one yet since I'll loose the t15 4piece in the process right?
    Correct. Double 2piece is suppose to be a small increase over T15 4piece however, so something to keep in mind.

  4. #564
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    It's factored into the valuation of crit that we present. For the most part, to evaluate stat priorities, we're plugging things into simulationcraft, and seeing how changes in statistics affect the DPS. Elemental Focus is definitely getting triggered, and affecting the value of crit. The reason you don't see us doing napkin math is because that's a shortcut, while the sim is actually brute-forcing tens of thousands of simulated minutes of combat while running all the necessary shortcut-free mathematics. It's significantly more accurate, and faster, than trying to napkin-math the values.

    We don't evaluate Crit without Elemental Focus, basically, because you'll always have it. It's already baked into our numbers.
    Alright, that puts my mind to ease a bit. Thanks for the clarification.

  5. #565
    Hello , I am interesting is this trinekt good for elemental http://www.wowhead.com/item=103987 ?

    Thanks to Yoni

  6. #566
    Quote Originally Posted by Bzuala View Post
    Hello , I am interesting is this trinekt good for elemental http://www.wowhead.com/item=103987 ?
    That really depends on your current trinkets. If you're still running around with 463 stuff then go for it, but crit rating is not our best stat. But you can never have enough int.
    You could also always just sim it.

  7. #567
    Thx for the guide!

  8. #568
    Hi guys,
    This is my armory link; http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Zakojin/simple

    I'm aiming for the max st performance i can get, i may switch to a mastery build after I get my hands on an amp trinket.

    Do you have any advice or suggestions?

  9. #569
    High Overlord Skurkitty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by madokbro View Post
    Hi guys,
    This is my armory link; http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Zakojin/simple

    I'm aiming for the max st performance i can get, i may switch to a mastery build after I get my hands on an amp trinket.

    Do you have any advice or suggestions?
    Mastery vs Haste builds come down to person choice it appears at this point, although the majority that I follow and speak with lean towards Mastery. My personal sims and testing is putting each stat within 2k DPS difference single target. So it comes down to how much you value cleave, this is why Mastery is safer to lean towards, as any fight that will permit cleave will pull Mastery ahead of Haste currently.

    Other then that you're .6 under hit cap, Ancestral Guidance is a higher value healing CD over Rushing Streams, and each 90 talent this tier holds a purpose. Examples - PE on Norushen (Guardian's ignore debuff), UF on Thok (Instant cast value higher due to constant interupt), EB on standard fights (holding same usage as ToT basically).

  10. #570
    Quote Originally Posted by Skurkitty View Post
    Mastery vs Haste builds come down to person choice it appears at this point, although the majority that I follow and speak with lean towards Mastery. My personal sims and testing is putting each stat within 2k DPS difference single target. So it comes down to how much you value cleave, this is why Mastery is safer to lean towards, as any fight that will permit cleave will pull Mastery ahead of Haste currently.

    Other then that you're .6 under hit cap, Ancestral Guidance is a higher value healing CD over Rushing Streams, and each 90 talent this tier holds a purpose. Examples - PE on Norushen (Guardian's ignore debuff), UF on Thok (Instant cast value higher due to constant interupt), EB on standard fights (holding same usage as ToT basically).
    Thank you, but I'm not under %0.6 points below hit cap, I'm under %0.06. Would that make much of a difference?
    Last edited by madokbro; 2013-09-21 at 11:48 PM.

  11. #571
    Hey guys, I'm also a reroll from a Mage due to guild issues.

    Here is my armoury: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ornoc/advanced

    Have a few problems, one being I can't sim craft my character due to timeless pieces not be recognized. Any suggestions on a way around this?

    My main concern is the lack of direction there seems to be for a lower ilevel character. I felt like I should go for the 1.6 cast times before going too deep into Mastery. Is this a good idea? I did have a look at AskMrRobot, but it's suggestion didn't seem right.

    I do on average 60k DPS (without CDs) on Target Dummies, and I know that they aren't a good gauge of where I'm at but in comparison to my Mage, who could pull a bit higher than that at the same ilevel, it just seems rather low. I have a good grasp of the rotation so I'm not sure if I'm doing anything wrong.

    Any help with gemming/reforging, etc would be greatly appreciated.

  12. #572
    High Overlord Skurkitty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by madokbro View Post
    Thank you, but I'm not under %0.6 points below hit cap, I'm under %0.06. Would that make much of a difference?
    I would personally never advise being under hit cap, no matter how small the amount. Although I see the gear situation and how much even one green +160 spirit gem would put you over, being such a small amount it isn't the end of the world... but it would be a killer to see a Lava Burst miss on such a small chance.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bloodlight View Post
    Hey guys, I'm also a reroll from a Mage due to guild issues.

    Here is my armoury: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ornoc/advanced

    Have a few problems, one being I can't sim craft my character due to timeless pieces not be recognized. Any suggestions on a way around this?

    My main concern is the lack of direction there seems to be for a lower ilevel character. I felt like I should go for the 1.6 cast times before going too deep into Mastery. Is this a good idea? I did have a look at AskMrRobot, but it's suggestion didn't seem right.

    I do on average 60k DPS (without CDs) on Target Dummies, and I know that they aren't a good gauge of where I'm at but in comparison to my Mage, who could pull a bit higher than that at the same ilevel, it just seems rather low. I have a good grasp of the rotation so I'm not sure if I'm doing anything wrong.

    Any help with gemming/reforging, etc would be greatly appreciated.
    Simcraft - Download the latest version.
    Lack of direction on any lower ilvl character is always an issue, the solution I feel within Ele Shamans at least is gemming Int.
    After simming you (all buffs + CDs) I have you pegged at 98544.5 dps on a Patchwerk fight.
    Your Int value is much higher then Haste or Mastery. Int - 4.32 / Haste - 1.77 / Mastery - 1.55. Usually to make a secondary stat worth gemming it has to have a higher value then your primary stat divided in half. Half of your Int value is 2.16, this is again... why I would suggest gemming Int for the time being.

    There are other things to consider, does your Mage have the Meta gem? Cloak? These things are huge at this point in the game and really what makes main swapping so difficult. Enchants will make a small difference, currently missing a shoulder enchant, mastery instead of 180 int on bracers, no belt buckle, no dancing steel... granted you may not wish to put higher price enchants on low ilvl gear.

    In regards to how you test on the training dummy, making use of your CDs will give you a better outlook on what your DPS would roughly be. I'll generally go for 6 minutes on a dummy, pop everything -> 3minutes ascendance back up (pop) -> 6minutes ascendance up again (dont pop, stop dps). Gives you a better result since the average raid boss is around 6 minutes.

    Best of luck with your main swap.

  13. #573
    Thanks a ton for the detailed reply, Skurkitty. I've adjusted my gems and fixed my sim craft. Hopefully I'll see some better results.

  14. #574
    Hey
    Just a quick question. Should I use my JC gems for 320 int or for pure mastery at this point in the game?

  15. #575
    Quote Originally Posted by Galaen View Post
    Hey
    Just a quick question. Should I use my JC gems for 320 int or for pure mastery at this point in the game?
    You should use the JC int gems as 640 int > 960 mastery.

  16. #576

  17. #577
    Hey all.
    Just wanted to give a quick thanks to Endus for the update.
    I had a small question I was hoping someone could help me with. I loaded my character onto ask mr robot to see what my stat priority should be and its showing a mastery build when I optimize my gear. However, on Simulation craft it's showing my normalized stat values as 0.46 for Haste, 0.43 for Mastery, and 0.31 for crit. Now I would assume the difference in haste and mastery is negligible at my level (LFR and maybe some Flex). I guess my question is, if I were to choose to go Mastery, I wouldn't be missing out on that much would I?
    Also Ask Mr Robot is telling me to use 1 expertise and haste gem. That's wrong right? I didn't miss some update where expertise is now relevant to us, right? This also makes me question the validity of AMR. Should I be following it?
    Thanks
    Last edited by blaqkmagick; 2013-09-24 at 07:27 PM.

  18. #578
    Expertise is hit for us, so it is relevant. Maybe not ideal, but not completely wrong.

    AskMrRobot uses generalized stat weights. You can edit the weights it uses and plug in the ones you got from your sim to make it more accurate. From the weights you provided though, I can tell you that int is still ahead of haste and mastery, so you don't really want to be going full haste or full mastery yet, which is what AskMrRobot's default is going to be telling you.

  19. #579
    Thanks for the info Tickle. I already saw someonemention that int was better, I was more referring to regorging away from crit and excess hit and what not. Thanks though.
    Edit: I also changed the stat weight in AMR. That looks a lot better. THanks for the tip.
    Last edited by blaqkmagick; 2013-09-24 at 08:15 PM.

  20. #580
    I'm currently at %27 haste and %71 mastery 545 ilvl, gemmed everything to pure mastery(ignored int bonuses) after I got the normal bindings, reforged some stuff to haste to keep LB casts at at least 4-5 secs.

    Do you recommend that I get some more haste? LB casts do seem a bit long. Also, I was wondering if gemming for yellow on red sockets and ignoring 180/120 int bonuses is mistake or not.
    Last edited by madokbro; 2013-09-25 at 10:50 PM.

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