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  1. #461
    thank you very much for taking your time to do this ^^
    will try haste gemming then now

  2. #462
    ya. just want to say thanks for this thread. Has to be one of the most organized guide i've seen. thanks again for the time well spent.

  3. #463
    According to the guide i should be taking ancestral swiftness with primal elementalist. But i feel as though i am gimping myself without having elemental mastery for ascendance...
    Quote Originally Posted by Validity View Post
    If rogues become shit, all they can become is a different type of shit.

  4. #464
    Depends a bit on your character. Having legendary meta greatly diminishes use of EM, as well as t15 4pc (doesn't line up with ascendance anymore) or being a troll.

    Awesome signature/avatar by Visenna!

  5. #465
    Out of Curiosity when is it better to deter from Haste and build Mastery?

    Trims Kel'thuzad server in guild Eminent won't let me post link

    I've already passed the soft cap for haste wondering if I should switch over to mastery now?

  6. #466
    High Overlord Skurkitty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Trims View Post
    Out of Curiosity when is it better to deter from Haste and build Mastery?

    Trims Kel'thuzad server in guild Eminent won't let me post link

    I've already passed the soft cap for haste wondering if I should switch over to mastery now?
    Ele Shamans are going above 40% haste through gearing and gems (you can look at my armory for an example - click sig)
    Your mastery will increase with gear through raw gear stats or reforging.
    You should be swapping your gems out to Haste gems now, instead of sticking with Int... again gem process can be seen on my character for reference.

    If you're wondering why, back one page (page 23 halfway down) is where you'll find answers to that question as I provided the answer to two others.

  7. #467
    Quote Originally Posted by Skurkitty View Post
    Ele Shamans are going above 40% haste through gearing and gems (you can look at my armory for an example - click sig)
    Your mastery will increase with gear through raw gear stats or reforging.
    You should be swapping your gems out to Haste gems now, instead of sticking with Int... again gem process can be seen on my character for reference.

    If you're wondering why, back one page (page 23 halfway down) is where you'll find answers to that question as I provided the answer to two others.
    So should I use the reckless gems or pure hast gems in replacement of my int gems?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Just re-gemmed to the new one still won't let me post links sorry

    Trims kel'thuzad server

    sim-craft up my dps by around 2k wondering if I should replace the reckless to all quick?

  8. #468
    High Overlord Skurkitty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Trims View Post
    So should I use the reckless gems or pure hast gems in replacement of my int gems?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Just re-gemmed to the new one still won't let me post links sorry

    Trims kel'thuzad server

    sim-craft up my dps by around 2k wondering if I should replace the reckless to all quick?
    Certain sockets are not worth it, any spirit socket bonus, +60 on secondary stats etc etc.

    So situations in which 320 Haste should be used:
    Belt Buckle
    Extra weapon socket
    Blacksmith sockets
    Bad socket bonus (examples on my armory - Belt & Neck w/ spirit bonus - Ring w/ 60 haste bonus)
    Excess Hit isn't needed (example on my armory - Shield w/ blue socket, I'm already over cap so it isn't worth it).
    ^^The exception to excess hit would be if the socket bonus is something like 120 int in the case of Tier Pants.

    So from your armory, only two gems I would swap is your belt and pants.
    Last edited by Skurkitty; 2013-07-25 at 10:32 PM. Reason: Extra information.

  9. #469
    Quote Originally Posted by Skurkitty View Post
    Certain sockets are not worth it, any spirit socket bonus, +60 on secondary stats etc etc.
    Not sure why you painting it so black&white. Going for spirit/hit socket bonus can be a gain if your gear allows you to actually use the hit. For +60 haste/mastery/crit it depends on your stat weights ofcourse, but it can easily be a gain as well. Most of the time, haste/mastery barely seems to beat out intellect on sims wrt gemming from what I've seen, meaning a free 60 haste or whatever can easily be a gain. Take IQ ring for example, if it was a red socket going for an orange gem is probably better (it boils down to 100 haste vs 80 int and I doubt haste shoots up that much).

    Awesome signature/avatar by Visenna!

  10. #470
    High Overlord Skurkitty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Derpette View Post
    Not sure why you painting it so black&white. Going for spirit/hit socket bonus can be a gain if your gear allows you to actually use the hit. For +60 haste/mastery/crit it depends on your stat weights ofcourse, but it can easily be a gain as well. Most of the time, haste/mastery barely seems to beat out intellect on sims wrt gemming from what I've seen, meaning a free 60 haste or whatever can easily be a gain. Take IQ ring for example, if it was a red socket going for an orange gem is probably better (it boils down to 100 haste vs 80 int and I doubt haste shoots up that much).
    Don't intend to paint it so black and white, yes spirit sockets are a gain should you need the hit... but the overflow of spirit and hit on gear this tier makes that a rare find past a certain point. I originally had a point touching on +60 secondary sockets in my post but then took it out as I felt it was straight forward, maybe I should have left it in. In certain situations yes you are right, with the example of the IQ ring... had it been a red or yellow socket then sure. But I was being more direct with what the Tier is offering instead of a wider view of "what if" situations.
    A prime example of what you're talking about, is the Ghostbinder Greatboots from Jin'rokh. It has a +60 spirit socket bonus while the socket just happens to be yellow, in these situations yes there is zero reason not to consider it, be it any secondary stat.
    I'll be more open with future posts, you have a point with the black and white comment.

  11. #471
    Quote Originally Posted by Skurkitty View Post
    Certain sockets are not worth it, any spirit socket bonus, +60 on secondary stats etc etc.

    So situations in which 320 Haste should be used:
    Belt Buckle
    Extra weapon socket
    Blacksmith sockets
    Bad socket bonus (examples on my armory - Belt & Neck w/ spirit bonus - Ring w/ 60 haste bonus)
    Excess Hit isn't needed (example on my armory - Shield w/ blue socket, I'm already over cap so it isn't worth it).
    ^^The exception to excess hit would be if the socket bonus is something like 120 int in the case of Tier Pants.

    So from your armory, only two gems I would swap is your belt and pants.
    Thanks for the help I haven't been lucky enough to switch to 1h+shield no drops and nothing off rolls I know that would be ideal

  12. #472
    sorry if it's been covered, i couldn't find anything

    how are people opening fights?

    atm i'm doing something like

    3secs fire ele
    1.5secs EB (or LB if no EB) + pot
    0sec flameshock
    LvB
    (hero + asc) LvB spam

    not sure when the best time to drop stormlash is, both for me personally, or for the raid. in the global before i pop my CDs? as soon as my CDs finish, but hero is still up?

  13. #473
    Quote Originally Posted by asharia View Post
    sorry if it's been covered, i couldn't find anything

    how are people opening fights?

    atm i'm doing something like

    3secs fire ele
    1.5secs EB (or LB if no EB) + pot
    0sec flameshock
    LvB
    (hero + asc) LvB spam

    not sure when the best time to drop stormlash is, both for me personally, or for the raid. in the global before i pop my CDs? as soon as my CDs finish, but hero is still up?
    I dont precast fire ele but use it later, also this is the only time i throw in an unleash elements beacusw it is a guaranteed meta proc. So it would be more like:

    Lightning Bolt/EB + Pot
    Unleash Elements for meta proc
    Flame Shock (now guaranteed to be boosted by meta)
    Lava Burst
    Fire Elemental
    Ascendance

  14. #474
    I am somewhat confused on what to do for my ele shaman alt. I was stacking intellect until someone came along and told me I was doing it wrong. I simmed my shaman and was at around 173.5k dps. So I tried out haste and went down to about 173k dps.

    Simming Full Intellect gems I get:
    crit 2.13 Haste 3.10 Mastery 2.7 and Int 5.05

    Simming Full haste gems I get:
    Crit 2.15 Haste 2.56 Mastery 2.5 and Int 5.12



    Should I go back to intellect or am I missing something? I don't think I can link my armory but its Gurmick @ illidan US

  15. #475
    High Overlord Skurkitty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coachmcguirk View Post
    I am somewhat confused on what to do for my ele shaman alt. I was stacking intellect until someone came along and told me I was doing it wrong. I simmed my shaman and was at around 173.5k dps. So I tried out haste and went down to about 173k dps.

    Simming Full Intellect gems I get:
    crit 2.13 Haste 3.10 Mastery 2.7 and Int 5.05

    Simming Full haste gems I get:
    Crit 2.15 Haste 2.56 Mastery 2.5 and Int 5.12



    Should I go back to intellect or am I missing something? I don't think I can link my armory but its Gurmick @ illidan US
    I have no idea how you were simming, but at 450 length 50k iterations I have you set at. (This is with your current Haste gems)
    198.6k DPS
    Int - 5.88 / Crit - 2.42 / Haste - 2.65 / Mastery - 3.16

    Maybe you were simming at lower iterations? Which will yield less accurate results.
    Regardless with YOUR results, the base reason you most likely saw a DPS decrease is due to the fact that you don't have 2 RPPM trinkets.
    Which will hurt the value of Haste a bit, once you replace your valor trinket with Wush / Cha-Ye's (Pref to Wush) you'll see a increase with Haste.

  16. #476
    Has anyone taken a stab at the Leveling portion of this guide? If not, I'd be happy to put something together just for the sake of having the guide be complete and the community having a place to refer new players to.

  17. #477
    Quote Originally Posted by Skurkitty View Post
    I have no idea how you were simming, but at 450 length 50k iterations I have you set at. (This is with your current Haste gems)
    198.6k DPS
    Int - 5.88 / Crit - 2.42 / Haste - 2.65 / Mastery - 3.16

    Maybe you were simming at lower iterations? Which will yield less accurate results.
    Regardless with YOUR results, the base reason you most likely saw a DPS decrease is due to the fact that you don't have 2 RPPM trinkets.
    Which will hurt the value of Haste a bit, once you replace your valor trinket with Wush / Cha-Ye's (Pref to Wush) you'll see a increase with Haste.


    Simmed today after getting a trinket and what not last week. 202,761k DPS int: 6.0 Crit: 2.21 Haste: 3.02 Mastery 3.18

    What are your options set to when you run your sim? I had to change it to 50k and to Patchwerk style in order to get those numbers.

    I currently have it set to

    50k Iterations
    World Lag Low
    Length 450s
    Vary Length 20%
    Fight Style Patchwerk
    Target Level Raid Boss
    Target Race humanoid
    Num Enemies 1
    Challenge Mode Disabled
    Player Skill Elite
    Threads 4



    Should I be simming using a different style of fight? Also with mastery above haste and crit, should I dump some of my haste back out for mastery until it starts to sim them closer together in value?
    Last edited by Coachmcguirk; 2013-07-30 at 04:11 PM.

  18. #478
    High Overlord Skurkitty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coachmcguirk View Post
    Simmed today after getting a trinket and what not last week. 202,761k DPS int: 6.0 Crit: 2.21 Haste: 3.02 Mastery 3.18

    What are your options set to when you run your sim? I had to change it to 50k and to Patchwerk style in order to get those numbers.

    I currently have it set to

    50k Iterations
    World Lag Low
    Length 450s
    Vary Length 20%
    Fight Style Patchwerk
    Target Level Raid Boss
    Target Race humanoid
    Num Enemies 1
    Challenge Mode Disabled
    Player Skill Elite
    Threads 4



    Should I be simming using a different style of fight? Also with mastery above haste and crit, should I dump some of my haste back out for mastery until it starts to sim them closer together in value?
    I do my sims with the same settings as you for a baseline idea. I've simmed you again with your updated trinket and got roughly the same results:
    202.8k DPS / 5.94 Int / 2.13 Crit / 3.01 Haste / 3.13 Mastery.

    In my opinion your trinket situation hasn't changed much. Vision is an RPPM trinket that much is obvious but for us to make use of the proc... it's a very tricky and depending on when it procs impossible thing to use. I toyed with the trinket for quite some time when it was all I had available and just couldn't get much use out of it. The most benefit from the proc is to use Elemental Blast, a Fulm Earth Shock, and to re-apply FS. But you're never promised that Ele Blast will be available on the proc, nor a Fulm ES. So what generally happens is maybe 2-3 crit Lightning Bolts... and at the trinkets proc rate, it doesn't really measure out in value.
    (Please someone correct me if I'm wrong on Vision, I could have completely overlooked something when I was raid testing it)

    So in the end the sims result change is just that, your haste went up in value because you grabbed an RPPM trinket but the overall DPS only went up by so much because of the trinket pick up. All you're really getting out of Vision is the static Int, and from time to time maybe a lucky proc line up.
    If I sim myself with Vision my stat weights change quite a bit as well, similar to using the Valor trinket.

    At this point I believe it's a matter of trial and error with gemming, you'll have to swap some gems, sim yourself, swap some more, sim, repeat until you find the fine line. Once you gets your hands on a Wushoolay's or Cha-Ye's your haste value should go up more and your current gem setup will be ideal. Considering it's your alt(?) I believe, you could always just leave it the way it is and wait.

  19. #479
    I have a question regarding UVLS, as I just picked up the 502 version (other trinkets are 502 Cha-Ye's and 530 Shado-pan). I'm considering using it for Heroic Durumu, as even though the proc is low, if I get lucky and it goes during Ice Walls it should help a lot. My question though, is when the proc goes off, is it worth recasting flame shock (assuming LvB isn't on CD) for the 100% crit on ticks? With 13.24% crit, rising to 13.92%, I can reasonably expect a flame shock of about 140k and 120k if I get absolutely no crits on the initial damage or any of the ticks. A guaranteed crit across the board would be roughly 300k. Compare that to a lightning bolt increasing from around 45k to around 115.

    Is there a way I can put "If buff Perfect Aim, recast flame shock" into simcraft to see?

    Armory is Jimmyolsen on Uldum.
    Last edited by jimmyolsen; 2013-08-01 at 01:04 AM.

  20. #480
    Hey i just started playing again, i have shit gear i stopped playing like right after i hit 90. How should i go about gearing the fastest way possible?

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