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  1. #301
    Quote Originally Posted by Skurkitty View Post
    This tier seems to be a bit more favored towards PE then EB due to the movement on most fights. In regards to the Fire Elemental Glyph, is it always best to make use of lining it up with Ascendance? Or can it be used as a form of sustain damage as well? For example on Ji-Kun, when returning to the platform, popping Fire Elemental then waiting until you intercept the feed for the damage boost to pop Ascendance. That way you have some form of consistent burst damage coming from your Fire Elemental right away followed up by Ascendance maybe 10 seconds later.

    Or overall in this situation would it be better to just hold Fire Elemental until you get the buff then pop them both at the same time?
    Also considering as was stated that the glyph reduces overall uptime by 9 seconds.
    Now couldn't this glyph also be considered situational? Let's say a fight is 7 minutes long, either way you'll get two uses of the Elemental... so that comes down to if you want it to line up with Ascendance or not for the second usage. But if the fight is say 10 minutes long, the Fire Elemental glyph would pull ahead would it not? Since you would get 3 uses with the glyph and two without (as the third usage would be coming up when the fight is ending).
    Lining up your PE with ascendance has no benefit to your PE what so ever unless your using its channel which is not optimal unless ur PE cannot melee its target. so honestly you should be lining up your PE with say on use trinks and hero since ascendance has no effect of PE

  2. #302
    High Overlord Skurkitty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SamoTray View Post
    Lining up your PE with ascendance has no benefit to your PE what so ever unless your using its channel which is not optimal unless ur PE cannot melee its target. so honestly you should be lining up your PE with say on use trinks and hero since ascendance has no effect of PE
    Right, I understand that. The basis for me talking about lining up Ascendance with PE was for overall burst. Since they're two very heavy hitters. Versus spreading the two out for sustained damage, so... not popping them both together for that huge burst that comes from the combo.

  3. #303
    Glyph of Fire Elemental Totem
    Advantage: Decreases the cooldown of Fire Elemental Totem from 5 minutes to 3 minutes
    Disadvantage: Decreases the duration of Fire Elemental Totem from 60 seconds to 36 seconds
    The duration:cooldown ratio remains the same, so what this glyph allows is a more frequent but shorter use of your Fire Elemental. While this results in an average uptime decrease of 9 seconds, it allows for better syncing & sharing of cooldowns with Ascendance which is also on a 3 minute cooldown.
    Advice: Recommended
    The only cd I could think would be Elemental mastery TALENT that u will have qued up with Ascendance, ther are very few use trinkets what i know of but many procs but Is it really worth to delay ascendance to get a strong fire ele i doubt it is.

  4. #304
    I am really curious why is Vision of Lei Shen rated so high? In Anscendance, proc is wasted and during normal periods of dealing damage, I assume its best to use proc with Elemental Blast and Fulmination? But again, i cant see how is this trinket better than Cha-ye.
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  5. #305
    Quote Originally Posted by Sabrage View Post
    I am really curious why is Vision of Lei Shen rated so high? In Anscendance, proc is wasted and during normal periods of dealing damage, I assume its best to use proc with Elemental Blast and Fulmination? But again, i cant see how is this trinket better than Cha-ye.
    its not rating the trinket highly, its rating the proc value highly. The value of the trinket is dependant on how much you can get out of it. since its on a RPPM instead of ICD, you cant just "save" whatever spell you want for it and you are in the middle of the cast anyway when it procs. it has also pretty bad proc, 0.525 RPPM without haste, with normal haste levels maybe 0.7, most likely less, thats about one proc for every minute and half. Heroic version is slightly better in that regard

    Personally, I really dont see how even the proc can be valued that high, maybe mathboys can show their math, but In my opinion? very unreliable trinket in terms of dps. as long as it can proc during Ascendance, I wouldnt touch it, unless I got like not upgraded normal t14 trinkets or smth.

  6. #306
    Quote Originally Posted by Sarevokcz View Post
    Personally, I really dont see how even the proc can be valued that high, maybe mathboys can show their math, but In my opinion? very unreliable trinket in terms of dps. as long as it can proc during Ascendance, I wouldnt touch it, unless I got like not upgraded normal t14 trinkets or smth.
    You set it in SimCraft, you run it, you get the numbers. It's that simple really.

    You guys are going "but it won't affect Ascendance or Lava burst so it must be crap" without realising that 259% crits + overloads & echos make up the difference.

  7. #307
    Quote Originally Posted by binkenstein View Post
    You set it in SimCraft, you run it, you get the numbers. It's that simple really.

    You guys are going "but it won't affect Ascendance or Lava burst so it must be crap" without realising that 259% crits + overloads & echos make up the difference.
    4s buff, without ICD, with relatively low PPM, that can proc anytime? I dont need simcraft to SEE that it is unreliable. besides, simcraft doesnt tell me what I want to know. If it is better by 1000 dps on one pull out of 5 but worse on other four by 200 dps, why should I pick this one? Especially since most fights arent exactly patchwerks?

  8. #308
    Moderator Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarevokcz View Post
    4s buff, without ICD, with relatively low PPM, that can proc anytime? I dont need simcraft to SEE that it is unreliable.
    You're confusing "random" with "unreliable". They aren't the same thing. Particularly with the new RPPM system.

    besides, simcraft doesnt tell me what I want to know. If it is better by 1000 dps on one pull out of 5 but worse on other four by 200 dps, why should I pick this one? Especially since most fights arent exactly patchwerks?
    Because that's not how the contribution of the trinket would divvy out between parses. You're just inventing fictional numbers, rather than using actual data, and those fictional numbers don't reflect the reality to any remote degree, to boot.

    The sim's valuation of the trinket includes the low proc and duration rate. It's that good with that "unreliability" factored in. That's how the sim works.

    And you'd pick it because it is, on average, better. The same reason you might stack mastery or crit over Haste, because even though they're a random chance, they're a higher value for you than Haste is. This isn't a new concept, applied to trinket procs, it's been part of the theorycraft for years, and this new trinket does not reflect any kind of necessary change to those principles.

  9. #309
    Still no sign of Blizz buffing the Unleashed Fury talent for Elem in PvE...

  10. #310
    High Overlord Axylum's Avatar
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    So as an elemental shaman in raid environments it's recommended to take PE rather than EB?

  11. #311
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axylum View Post
    So as an elemental shaman in raid environments it's recommended to take PE rather than EB?
    EB is just fine tbf!

  12. #312
    Quote Originally Posted by Gollee View Post
    EB is just fine tbf!
    But UF is really bad

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-31 at 06:21 PM ----------

    So even if we pick Elemental Blast, we are still NOT to use Unleash Elements (Flame) to buff EB's damage by 30% - even when counting in all those Mastery and Echo duplications of UE+EB?

  13. #313
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksej89 View Post
    Still no sign of Blizz buffing the Unleashed Fury talent for Elem in PvE...
    They did buff it, in 5.2. It's not much behind the other two, and you do gain benefits for trading off some throughput. You may decide that you'd rather maximize throughput rather than adding utility, which is entirely fair for PvE, but that doesn't mean UF is "broken" for Elemental.

  14. #314
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    They did buff it, in 5.2. It's not much behind the other two, and you do gain benefits for trading off some throughput. You may decide that you'd rather maximize throughput rather than adding utility, which is entirely fair for PvE, but that doesn't mean UF is "broken" for Elemental.
    Can you (and anyone else) please answer this for me?

    "So even if we pick Elemental Blast we are still NOT to use Unleash Elements (Flame) to buff EB's damage by 30% - even when counting in all those Mastery and Echo duplications of UE+EB?"

    Thanks

  15. #315
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksej89 View Post
    Can you (and anyone else) please answer this for me?

    "So even if we pick Elemental Blast we are still NOT to use Unleash Elements (Flame) to buff EB's damage by 30% - even when counting in all those Mastery and Echo duplications of UE+EB?"

    Thanks
    Yes, it's still less of a damage contribution than an LB would be, particularly as a large component of EB's value is the buff it triggers, not the direct damage.

  16. #316
    Hello I have a few questions about optimizing my elemental shaman I was wondering if its worth dropping all of my tier pieces for the heroic helm from dogs upgraded haste shoulders from tortos and I was also debating on getting the leggings or the gloves from the Shado-pan assault vendor heres my Shaman's set up. I cant seem to link my toons armory yet lol but heres my name so u can copy n paste (Bråve)

  17. #317
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    Im 99% sure that the pure int gain from a thunderforged and 522 legs will be superior to the 4 pc set bonus 496 gear, the gloves have crit/haste legs have spirit/haste so depends on how much vp you have and if you particularly need hit, im going for legs first.
    As to the helm, I would doubt its worth losing the 2pce bonus for a 502 item 5% of our base dps spell for 6ilvls doesn't compute

    650 extra intellect a lot more haste, some extra spirit giving you more stats to reforge, and the 4 pce is very underpowered anyway, i dropped mine asap.

    As were amory policing, I would question the choice of gems and reforges, you could easily lose 6% mastery and gain 6% haste if you jiggled it around, i find gemming pure intellect leaves you with less undesired stats to reforge out of. For example you have reforged from haste in to spirit on your legs yet have avoided the spirit socket bonus on the belt, and have reforged crit > mastery instead of crit > haste. The lack of haste breakpoints makes it hard to know what to aim for but I think 12% haste is way too low and 51% mastery way too high. Im sat at around 19% haste without buffs and about 40% mastery.

  18. #318
    I was trying locate this information but failed so I figured I would ask here:

    Has anyone done any simming/math to figure out roughly what the net dps gain is on the 4 set bonus this tier?

  19. #319
    I've been playing around with my spec each week so far because the Sims have us "performing" about the same with several different choices.

    Currently - and my best run through so far - I'm using Echo/PE. I "KNOW" it says to use PE/AS for the extra Elemental Damage, but there are WAY too many small instances where Echo outperforms AS. Any time you even think about using Chain Lightning, Echo is going to win. So lets look at the fights that one would use Chain : Horridon, Council, Tortos, Megera (Heroic), Ji-Kun, Durumu (Heroic), Primordius, Iron Qon (Heroic), Twins (Heroic), Lei Shen.

    For yellow gems, I'm using Int/Haste. I'm also reforging primarily for Haste (Currently around 8100).


    I do have a question for the Theorycrafters. Someone was trying to tell me Lava Beam is not proccing properly with our Mastery / Echo. Is this true?
    Last edited by Narwhal6; 2013-04-04 at 07:41 AM.

  20. #320
    Is it worth Dropping 4 piece tier 14 for 2 piece tier 14/2 piece tier 15?

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