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  1. #381
    The opener has been discussed a lot. Assuming EB build:

    1. Prepot and Elemental Blast at 2 seconds.
    2. Flameshock
    3. Lava Burst
    4. Fire Elemental
    5. Stormlash + Ascendance (which some people macro together, some don't. I don't recommend you macro together always).
    6. Lava Burst spam.

    Some Shaman insist that your FE should be before flameshock so it gets "triggered" to dps boss.

    My thoughts are that you want your Flameshock out first, so that you might get lucky with Lava Surge proces (which I've gotten 2-3 sometimes before even my first ascendance).

    Either way though, the difference is probably not very noticeable over the entire fight, really.

  2. #382
    Moderator Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Booniehat View Post
    Some Shaman insist that your FE should be before flameshock so it gets "triggered" to dps boss.
    FWIW, this is probably a wash, at best. If you pop it early because you're expecting a spellcast to "trigger" it, you'll need to wait out the GCD from dropping it. If you drop it later in the opener, it'll still get "triggered" the same delay, after hitting the keybind, but there's a chance it'll "trigger" right away against the target you've already aggroed.

    I can't see that there's any chance you'd get greater uptime by popping it right before combat starts.

  3. #383
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    FWIW, this is probably a wash, at best. If you pop it early because you're expecting a spellcast to "trigger" it, you'll need to wait out the GCD from dropping it. If you drop it later in the opener, it'll still get "triggered" the same delay, after hitting the keybind, but there's a chance it'll "trigger" right away against the target you've already aggroed.

    I can't see that there's any chance you'd get greater uptime by popping it right before combat starts.
    Agreed. And personal experience seems to show greater burst when I do the rotation I listed, as opposed to FE before Flame Shock wash. BUt I can't say it definitely due to the whole RNG-ness of our spec.

  4. #384
    Quote Originally Posted by Booniehat View Post
    The opener has been discussed a lot. Assuming EB build:

    1. Prepot and Elemental Blast at 2 seconds.
    2. Flameshock
    3. Lava Burst
    4. Fire Elemental
    5. Stormlash + Ascendance (which some people macro together, some don't. I don't recommend you macro together always).
    6. Lava Burst spam.
    I've taken to adding in a single Unleash Elements cast after Elemental Blast, as the Sinister meta procs on spell hit, so that initial EB doesn't hit fast enough for the buff to be up for Flame Shock (remembering that it's almost always going to proc on your first hit). This gains another 3 FS ticks.

  5. #385
    Quote Originally Posted by binkenstein View Post
    I've taken to adding in a single Unleash Elements cast after Elemental Blast, as the Sinister meta procs on spell hit, so that initial EB doesn't hit fast enough for the buff to be up for Flame Shock (remembering that it's almost always going to proc on your first hit). This gains another 3 FS ticks.
    Don't have the meta yet, so this is new to me. Good advice! Perhaps you guys should dedicate a small section to "optimal" elemental openers since it tends to be hotly discussed? Considering how much dmg is tied to ascendance, I can see why it's important for people to know.

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-27 at 10:23 PM ----------

    Hey guys, just something that's been bugging me. I know FET is dynamic.

    But what about flame shock? Does Bloodlust/Heroism, Unerring Vision or the max stack of Wooshulay's Final Choice impact us or does it dynamically update like FET? I.e., should we be intentionally recasting Flameshocks when affected by haste/int etc buffs?

    Or does it deal so little damage it's not even worth it?

    I've always thought it was dynamic, but some posts I've dug up say otherwise. Have I been doing it wrong? :X

  6. #386
    What about Elemental Blast? It does nice damage and give you three chances either crit, haste, and mastery? rest of the guide is good!

  7. #387
    Quote Originally Posted by binkenstein View Post
    I've taken to adding in a single Unleash Elements cast after Elemental Blast, as the Sinister meta procs on spell hit, so that initial EB doesn't hit fast enough for the buff to be up for Flame Shock (remembering that it's almost always going to proc on your first hit). This gains another 3 FS ticks.
    Thanks for the tip! Going to start doing that myself.
    What do you think about opening with a lightning bolt instead of elemental blast? Discussed this in a thread before but never really got a defined answer. The reasoning behind this would be that you'll get full uptime of elemental blast when you're in ascendance, and your EB will deal 15% more damage because of the lava burst. Arguments against it is that trinkets can proc too early, but both hydra and council trinket have a 20+ sec duration.

  8. #388
    Quote Originally Posted by Booniehat View Post
    Don't have the meta yet, so this is new to me. Good advice! Perhaps you guys should dedicate a small section to "optimal" elemental openers since it tends to be hotly discussed? Considering how much dmg is tied to ascendance, I can see why it's important for people to know.

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-27 at 10:23 PM ----------

    Hey guys, just something that's been bugging me. I know FET is dynamic.

    But what about flame shock? Does Bloodlust/Heroism, Unerring Vision or the max stack of Wooshulay's Final Choice impact us or does it dynamically update like FET? I.e., should we be intentionally recasting Flameshocks when affected by haste/int etc buffs?

    Or does it deal so little damage it's not even worth it?

    I've always thought it was dynamic, but some posts I've dug up say otherwise. Have I been doing it wrong? :X
    I find the focus on the opening rotation to be highly subjective, gimmicky, and doesn't actually have that much of an impact on anything aside from zomgnumbers at the start of a fight.

    Flame Shock, like most dots, snapshot everything. In any case, recasting FS because of buffs is only beneficial when the buffs give more damage than you would "lose" by clipping a dot early. So with haste buffs, you gain a dot with every ~10% haste you add (starting at 5%), so you can clip one dot on an existing cast for as many ticks as you would add by recasting early (3 per 30% buff).
    Quote Originally Posted by Deafwow View Post
    What about Elemental Blast? It does nice damage and give you three chances either crit, haste, and mastery? rest of the guide is good!
    What about Elemental Blast? I don't see any context for your question, so I don't know how to respond.

    Quote Originally Posted by Telefonorm View Post
    Thanks for the tip! Going to start doing that myself.
    What do you think about opening with a lightning bolt instead of elemental blast? Discussed this in a thread before but never really got a defined answer. The reasoning behind this would be that you'll get full uptime of elemental blast when you're in ascendance, and your EB will deal 15% more damage because of the lava burst. Arguments against it is that trinkets can proc too early, but both hydra and council trinket have a 20+ sec duration.
    LB-UE-FS-LvB-EB-Ascendance you mean? That could work.

  9. #389
    im using the same opener that everyone, excepted i use my fire elemental just before my pre pot and EB, so im wrong? i wanted avoid a global cooldown because i know the FE use dynamic buff, so i should pop it after LvB?

  10. #390
    I know this has been asked alot, but the glyph recommendation keeps bugging me. You recommend Glyph of Fire Elemental, but when I check elemental shamans in topguilds, none of them use it. Am I just missing something completely?
    If you don't glyph it you can usually use it twice in the fight for a total of 2 minutes uptime. With glyph I usually end up having it up 3 times which results in less uptime than unglyphed version. Since the t15 set, it doesn't line up with ascendance anyways so I don't understand it really.

  11. #391
    Field Marshal Placebo's Avatar
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    I'm pretty sure that with "proc-on pull" trinkets, the 5 minute version is more likely to be better anyway, especially if you are lusting off the bat. I can count the number of times on one hand Hydra + UVOLS has proced exactly on 3 minutes.

  12. #392
    I gotta re-ask my question, seems it did not get noticed/answered:

    Is the basic Unleash Elements worth casting to buff our new Lava Burst?

    Since Lava Burst hits that much harder (as well as it's mastery copy and Echo copy), perhaps the basic Unleash Elements is finally worth using in a PvE rotation?

  13. #393
    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksej89 View Post
    I gotta re-ask my question, seems it did not get noticed/answered:

    Is the basic Unleash Elements worth casting to buff our new Lava Burst?

    Since Lava Burst hits that much harder (as well as it's mastery copy and Echo copy), perhaps the basic Unleash Elements is finally worth using in a PvE rotation?
    Never. Even with the talent it's behind EB and PE. The only reason to even have it on your bars is for the miserable pink dino on H Horridon.

  14. #394
    Quote Originally Posted by Galaen View Post
    I know this has been asked alot, but the glyph recommendation keeps bugging me. You recommend Glyph of Fire Elemental, but when I check elemental shamans in topguilds, none of them use it. Am I just missing something completely?
    If you don't glyph it you can usually use it twice in the fight for a total of 2 minutes uptime. With glyph I usually end up having it up 3 times which results in less uptime than unglyphed version. Since the t15 set, it doesn't line up with ascendance anyways so I don't understand it really.
    There are a number of situations where a 3 minute cooldown is better than a 5 minute cooldown (Doors on Horridon, Ji-Kun, Primordius for example). In any case "recommended" is really "it's fairly decent to have". There aren't any "Required" glyphs any more, so it goes Recommended - Optional - Not Recommended - Never take, ever.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksej89 View Post
    I gotta re-ask my question, seems it did not get noticed/answered:

    Is the basic Unleash Elements worth casting to buff our new Lava Burst?

    Since Lava Burst hits that much harder (as well as it's mastery copy and Echo copy), perhaps the basic Unleash Elements is finally worth using in a PvE rotation?
    Odds are if you're asking a question that isn't mentioned in the guide then either the situation hasn't changed from previous patches or you've discovered some radical new thing that nobody else has. Since the guide still says not to use UE at all, it's a pretty safe assumption to make that a guide updated for 5.3 does account for said changes.

  15. #395
    Brewmaster xindykawai's Avatar
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    Hi, i will switch from resto to ele, i want to pew pew :P ! but i have a question:

    In your guide, you talk that unleash element is good but i see on noxxican explication of how its now worth using it:
    Quote Originally Posted by Noxxic
    Unleash Elements:
    Unleash Elements is rarely worth using. It consumes a GCD and the Unleash Flame buff it provides only marginally improves the damage of Flame Shock or Lava Burst. Generally, it is better to just cast another Lightning Bolt and ignore the use of Unleash Elements.
    Is that true, im a bit confuse of its use for ele :x Sure i would use it before a lava burst but doest it really do what noxxic says ?

    ty for your help


    and why cast elemental blast after lava burst when you can have a mastery buff that might double your lava burst ?
    Last edited by xindykawai; 2013-05-30 at 01:11 PM.

  16. #396
    The point is you always want LvB to be on CD even if it means delaying your EB. Your LvB is almost always your #1 damage, and it should always be on CD to increase the chance of Lava Surge actually proccing. If you are using the ~1.6 seconds to cast a EB while LvB is up, that is 1.6 seconds you won't get a Lava Surge proc.

  17. #397
    Brewmaster xindykawai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adurp View Post
    The point is you always want LvB to be on CD even if it means delaying your EB. Your LvB is almost always your #1 damage, and it should always be on CD to increase the chance of Lava Surge actually proccing. If you are using the ~1.6 seconds to cast a EB while LvB is up, that is 1.6 seconds you won't get a Lava Surge proc.
    that make sence ! and should i use UE ? Is it worth it, and when :/

  18. #398
    Moderator Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xindykawai View Post
    Hi, i will switch from resto to ele, i want to pew pew :P ! but i have a question:

    In your guide, you talk that unleash element is good but i see on noxxican explication of how its now worth using it:


    Is that true, im a bit confuse of its use for ele :x Sure i would use it before a lava burst but doest it really do what noxxic says ?

    ty for your help
    The only times you should be using Unleash Elements are;
    1> You need an instant-cast spell and shocks are on CD and no Lava Surge procs are available (very rare and situational), or
    2> You took the Unleashed Fury talent in Tier 6, which is based on Unleash Elements. This isn't as strong for Elemental as either PE or EB, but we mention it in the priority to be thorough.

    An example of #1, for instance, would be when you know you have a phase shift coming up in a second, and don't have time to finish a cast of Lightning Bolt, and have no other instants available; UE will still hit and deal some damage, and provide you the buff, and your only other option in that situation is "nothing". UE is better than nothing.

    and why cast elemental blast after lava burst when you can have a mastery buff that might double your lava burst ?
    Basically, because we've run sims both ways, and Lava Burst being higher on the priority provides better overall DPS. The buff to the LvB isn't worth as much, long-term, as getting more LvBs off is, basically, though it's a close enough call you need to sim both rotations to see the difference.

  19. #399
    I haven't had UE on my bars since I leveled to 90 :/

    There is no point currently where the GCD you use casting it would outweigh the dmg you would gain on your LvB

  20. #400
    Brewmaster xindykawai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    The only times you should be using Unleash Elements are;
    1> You need an instant-cast spell and shocks are on CD and no Lava Surge procs are available (very rare and situational), or
    2> You took the Unleashed Fury talent in Tier 6, which is based on Unleash Elements. This isn't as strong for Elemental as either PE or EB, but we mention it in the priority to be thorough.

    An example of #1, for instance, would be when you know you have a phase shift coming up in a second, and don't have time to finish a cast of Lightning Bolt, and have no other instants available; UE will still hit and deal some damage, and provide you the buff, and your only other option in that situation is "nothing". UE is better than nothing.


    Basically, because we've run sims both ways, and Lava Burst being higher on the priority provides better overall DPS. The buff to the LvB isn't worth as much, long-term, as getting more LvBs off is, basically, though it's a close enough call you need to sim both rotations to see the difference.
    nice exellent !! tkx a lot ! this is mostly explain my dps hehe, i was using EB even if LB was up.. loosing too much time, same when i was in Ascendance :/, well ty !!

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