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  1. #701
    Quote Originally Posted by pkm View Post
    Does ele still do respectable DPS without legendary gem or cape?
    Without the legendary cloak? Maybe. Might be iffy, but Maybe. Without the legendary meta? Very doubtful.

    The meta is so powerful due in large part to the fact that Elemental has the highest proc rate out of any other caster, and haste is a rather powerful stat for us. Elemental also has a very high proc rate on the cloak as well, so having both is definitely a boon.

  2. #702
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    Elemental is shit in singletarget. But great on aoe. Were on the same boat with arms warriors but they can just switch a spec, elemental cant really.

  3. #703
    Quote Originally Posted by Mortalomena View Post
    Elemental is shit in singletarget. But great on aoe. Were on the same boat with arms warriors but they can just switch a spec, elemental cant really.
    Embrace bullshit. Ele is middle of the pack and doing decently, stop advocating this.
    The biggest mistake one can make, is not admitting when you're wrong.

    Grimshac - Neptulon, 4th best guild on Alliance side, Resto Shaman !

  4. #704
    Finally got my hc Purified bindings of immerseus since trying from the second week of SoO, I'm just curious about my stats, with the kardris totem trinket I have around 92% mastery and with black blood it goes up to 95% as well as putting my haste from 26% to 30%.

    I cant decide what trinket i want to use as I'm still missing hc Cleave trinket from Malkorok for cleave fights like Galakras and Dark shamans. Any help/advice would help alot, thanks.

  5. #705
    Quote Originally Posted by Sparka View Post
    Finally got my hc Purified bindings of immerseus since trying from the second week of SoO, I'm just curious about my stats, with the kardris totem trinket I have around 92% mastery and with black blood it goes up to 95% as well as putting my haste from 26% to 30%.

    I cant decide what trinket i want to use as I'm still missing hc Cleave trinket from Malkorok for cleave fights like Galakras and Dark shamans. Any help/advice would help alot, thanks.
    Kardris' Toxic Totem. That and Purified Bindings have been known to be BiS for ages now.

  6. #706
    Quote Originally Posted by athanasios View Post
    Embrace bullshit. Ele is middle of the pack and doing decently, stop advocating this.
    http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Iron_Jugg...14/60/default/

    Only real singletarget fight this tier in my opinion, and elementals should theoretically be good here as it's alot of movement during phase 1. You could argue that our uptime is low because of certain phase 2 starts, which is fine.

    http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Malkorok/...14/60/default/
    Not as comparable, because minor multidotting/cleaving, still a clear trend here.


    10man:
    http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Iron_Jugg...14/60/default/
    http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Malkorok/...14/60/default/

    Where's your empirial evidence to support your claims? Just curious!

  7. #707
    A little off topics, but Raidbots is wrong. Not his fault though, recently World of Log had a bug, ranking unfinished fight thus screwing the result.

    For example, the world best DPS on Juggernauth HM is this. 700k DPS, 36s duration.

    Every ranking are screwed like this so you should NOT base your opinion on them. For instance I see some really good SP out here, and your link places them at the very bottom.

    On topic, I agree that elem's are a bit behind, but fine. Warlocks needs a nerf, and it's coming from a warlock.
    Last edited by Shauni; 2013-12-17 at 01:18 PM.
    "Well...I think you don't get the concept of World First. It's not Method, it's NOT an obscure asian guild whose name can't be pronounced by the regular folks, it's blizzard !

    Yeah, cuz they had an internal test team, and they beat Garrosh. So by your standart, they are the true first."

  8. #708
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    Quote Originally Posted by athanasios View Post
    Embrace bullshit. Ele is middle of the pack and doing decently, stop advocating this.
    I don't know how to constructively respond to this :\ Elemental is one of the lowest single target DPS in game when playing with equally geared/skilled players, it's not some secret, or some way for elementals to try get themselves some buffs; it's just been a bit un-obvious because a lot of the fights in this tier include cleave (which elemental obviously excels at).

  9. #709
    Quote Originally Posted by Shauni View Post
    A little off topics, but Raidbots is wrong. Not his fault though, recently World of Log had a bug, ranking unfinished fight thus screwing the result.

    For example, the world best DPS on Juggernauth HM is this. 700k DPS, 36s duration.

    Every ranking are screwed like this so you should NOT base your opinion on them. For instance I see some really good SP out here, and your link places them at the very bottom.

    On topic, I agree that elem's are a bit behind, but fine. Warlocks needs a nerf, and it's coming from a warlock.
    Well, though I agree that it has to be taken with a grain of salt, I am not convinced by your argumentation about why one should.

    Raidbots has a detailed section below the graph, which section shows the data that the website uses.

    In this section, the example for a problematic ranking on WoL does not seem to be included in the data, since the maximum dps in the used data is not 700k.

    Imho, the data shows reasonable values ranging from below 50k to greater than 400k. As always in statistics, the truth lies between these end portions of the distribution of the samples.

    Therefore, I would presently not agree with you that the raidbot data for all samples is corrupted in such a serious extent, but rather in an acceptable manner.

    Basing your opinion and argumentation on raidbot might still not be the most appropriate way, but I guess, with the available tools, it is legitimate.
    Last edited by Xentres; 2013-12-17 at 03:28 PM.

  10. #710
    Fair point, I'm still puzzled about some rankings though. Some classes I see are way up here
    "Well...I think you don't get the concept of World First. It's not Method, it's NOT an obscure asian guild whose name can't be pronounced by the regular folks, it's blizzard !

    Yeah, cuz they had an internal test team, and they beat Garrosh. So by your standart, they are the true first."

  11. #711
    Quote Originally Posted by Telefonorm View Post
    http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Iron_Jugg...14/60/default/

    Only real singletarget fight this tier in my opinion, and elementals should theoretically be good here as it's alot of movement during phase 1. You could argue that our uptime is low because of certain phase 2 starts, which is fine.

    http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Malkorok/...14/60/default/
    Not as comparable, because minor multidotting/cleaving, still a clear trend here.


    10man:
    http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Iron_Jugg...14/60/default/
    http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Malkorok/...14/60/default/

    Where's your empirial evidence to support your claims? Just curious!
    I think Elemental is fine on single target DPS tbh. I think the majority of people just have NFI on how to play our class. That Malkorok value seems RIDICULOUSLY low to me. Average of 276k on Malkorok? Really? If a Malkorok kill goes really really badly for me and I get smacked with all possible issues I will do like 290-310k on a BAD attempt.

    These values are either very skewed or most Shamans are doing something very wrong.

    Additionally, Juggernauht is a very hard fight to compare due to the ability to conduct the fight in a different manner depending on strategy and skill of players (read:healers).

    - - - Updated - - -

    Nevermind, http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Malkorok/10H/all/14/60/p99/

    Even in 99th percentile we're still bottom of the ranks. Fair call, Ele single target sucks.

  12. #712
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    Quote Originally Posted by fearom View Post
    I think Elemental is fine on single target DPS tbh. I think the majority of people just have NFI on how to play our class
    Quote Originally Posted by fearom View Post
    These values are either very skewed or most Shamans are doing something very wrong.
    Quote Originally Posted by fearom View Post
    Even in 99th percentile we're still bottom of the ranks. Fair call, Ele single target sucks.
    All in the same post.

    @ Others: Elemental single target is low compared to nearly every other class, feel free to discredit WoL/RB's all you want. I'd like to see proof to argue to opposite.

    EDIT: Inb4 I need to l2p.

  13. #713
    Being a good player in an average guild can make someone think it's class is fine
    "Well...I think you don't get the concept of World First. It's not Method, it's NOT an obscure asian guild whose name can't be pronounced by the regular folks, it's blizzard !

    Yeah, cuz they had an internal test team, and they beat Garrosh. So by your standart, they are the true first."

  14. #714
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shauni View Post
    Being a good player in an average guild can make someone think it's class is fine
    This should be put in size 100 just under the thread title in full bold capitals.

    Inb4 "you guys need to l2p i'm top dps in my guild"

  15. #715
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    Ele shaman is really, really hard to play bad, so i doubt everyone is just bad at playing it. It just sucks singletarget.

  16. #716
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    Playing my ele shaman alt a bit more nowadays, coming from a warlock I'm hardwired into snapshotting dots.

    Regarding flame shock - do you try to keep it up with haste procs as much as possible, or do you only refresh as it expires? I read in the guide to only do this if it has a few ticks remaining. Having thought about it a bit more (and considering how high the meta gem uptime is for shaman) I feel I should probably not be so quick to refresh (e.g. with 15 seconds left) but just wondering what the general consensus was on this.

    Recently picked up the 2 set and striving to keep it up 100% but obviously if I'm casting flame shock too much this can become a problem?

    Also what's the deal with Unleashed Fury and Ascendance. Most of the time I try to use it just before I pop my cooldown, but sometimes it comes up half way through, and I'm uncertain whether I should use it or wait til ascendance is done. Gut feeling is to use it as the guide shows it as highest priority, but it doesn't exactly discuss this specific situation.

    Thanks.
    Last edited by Liquidsteel; 2013-12-22 at 02:24 AM.



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  17. #717
    Quote Originally Posted by Liquidsteel View Post
    Playing my ele shaman alt a bit more nowadays, coming from a warlock I'm hardwired into snapshotting dots.

    Regarding flame shock - do you try to keep it up with haste procs as much as possible, or do you only refresh as it expires? I read in the guide to only do this if it has a few ticks remaining. Having thought about it a bit more (and considering how high the meta gem uptime is for shaman) I feel I should probably not be so quick to refresh (e.g. with 15 seconds left) but just wondering what the general consensus was on this.

    Recently picked up the 2 set and striving to keep it up 100% but obviously if I'm casting flame shock too much this can become a problem?

    Also what's the deal with Unleashed Fury and Ascendance. Most of the time I try to use it just before I pop my cooldown, but sometimes it comes up half way through, and I'm uncertain whether I should use it or wait til ascendance is done. Gut feeling is to use it as the guide shows it as highest priority, but it doesn't exactly discuss this specific situation.

    Thanks.
    You can refresh FS early for haste procs, but it's generally not worth it to refresh it too early - maybe just a few seconds.

    Don't worry about maintaining 100% uptime on the 2-set. For the most part that's going to involve using ES earlier - and while it might be worth it to ES say, before a mid-fight ascendance (NOT on the pull, since that delays ascendance and means losing out on proc/pot uptime), it's also generally not worth messing with your shock timing too much.

    Don't UE mid-ascendance. By all means hit it right before ascendance, but not during.

  18. #718
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tickle View Post
    You can refresh FS early for haste procs, but it's generally not worth it to refresh it too early - maybe just a few seconds.

    Don't worry about maintaining 100% uptime on the 2-set. For the most part that's going to involve using ES earlier - and while it might be worth it to ES say, before a mid-fight ascendance (NOT on the pull, since that delays ascendance and means losing out on proc/pot uptime), it's also generally not worth messing with your shock timing too much.

    Don't UE mid-ascendance. By all means hit it right before ascendance, but not during.
    Cool. Is it worth delaying UE for like 5ish seconds to line up with ascendance or is it more of a hit on cooldown, "fire and forget" sort of ability.



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  19. #719
    Quote Originally Posted by Liquidsteel View Post
    Cool. Is it worth delaying UE for like 5ish seconds to line up with ascendance or is it more of a hit on cooldown, "fire and forget" sort of ability.
    Get an internal CD tracker and watch your trinkets/cloak/weapon enchants etc. Ascendance is a "you only get to hit this 2-3 times a fight, make it worth it" sort of CD. You want to line EVERYTHING you can into it.

  20. #720
    Dreadlord Liquidsteel's Avatar
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    Thanks but I already do this.

    I meant in the situation where Ascendance is off cooldown but PBI still has a few seconds left on ICD. Do I hold UE for what could be between 5 and 30 seconds or do I use it on CD and squeeze it in if available?

    If PBI procs and so does KTT and meta I'm not gonna hang around for UE cooldown. Better in this situation to hold onto it to guarantee it going into Ascendance?



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