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  1. #721
    If your trinkets are up, and your meta is up and UE is on CD for 5 seconds I would use ascendance anyway because KTT is a 10 second proc, I think, and it will fall off if you wait for UE and you can't guarantee it will proc again and you'll gain more damage from the int then the buff.

  2. #722
    should i use uf instead of eb if my il is 557 sorry for my bad english

  3. #723
    Dreadlord Liquidsteel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lavalashlol View Post
    If your trinkets are up, and your meta is up and UE is on CD for 5 seconds I would use ascendance anyway because KTT is a 10 second proc, I think, and it will fall off if you wait for UE and you can't guarantee it will proc again and you'll gain more damage from the int then the buff.
    Yeah this seems pretty common sense. It's the "should I delay UE to guarantee it during Ascendance or not?" question which I'm still unsure about. The boost to such a hard hitting Ascendance seems decent (10% on a truck load of LvBursts) but knowing how fickle Bindings is, there are times where it doesn't proc for up to 30 seconds at a time.

    Basically, is it worth delaying UE for up to 30 seconds to line up with your monster third ascendance + bindings/second pot/whatever else or do you always hit it on cooldown and just hope you get some of it in.



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  4. #724
    Quote Originally Posted by Illdian View Post
    should i use uf instead of eb if my il is 557 sorry for my bad english
    The difference is not based on I level but rather your stas. The best answer, as always, is sim it and find out.

  5. #725
    Quote Originally Posted by Liquidsteel View Post
    Basically, is it worth delaying UE for up to 30 seconds to line up with your monster third ascendance + bindings/second pot/whatever else or do you always hit it on cooldown and just hope you get some of it in.
    No. It is not.

    How many unleashed LvB would you be missing out on over a 30 second period? You could get off 2x UE and 4xLvB (guaranteed)

    5 seconds, yes, 10 seconds, probably, 15 seconds or higher? No way, use it.

    However if your you had both trinkets plus your meta and any duration of UE larger then a second on remaining, forget the UE and smash out Ascendance.

  6. #726
    Dreadlord Liquidsteel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fearom View Post
    No. It is not.

    How many unleashed LvB would you be missing out on over a 30 second period? You could get off 2x UE and 4xLvB (guaranteed)

    5 seconds, yes, 10 seconds, probably, 15 seconds or higher? No way, use it.

    However if your you had both trinkets plus your meta and any duration of UE larger then a second on remaining, forget the UE and smash out Ascendance.
    Thank you.



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  7. #727
    So I found this in a guide ( yes I use guides for classes I don't play that much )

    '' Once you have Purified Bindings of Immerseus (LFR, Flexible, Heroic), you should start gemming for Mastery, instead of Intellect. ''

    But the guide only states the basic gemming route, I assumed you used hybrid gems like intellect + mastery when gemming mastery , or do you use straight up mastery ?

    Or if someone could tell me the gems that go in red, blue, yellow and prismatic sockets when gemming for Mastery , that would be helpful.
    Also what socket bonuses do you match and which do you ignore ?

    Thanks
    Last edited by FluFF; 2014-01-02 at 01:29 AM.

  8. #728
    Over 9000! apepi's Avatar
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    Is there an addon that can show me my Echo of Elements? I am leveling my Shaman and recount does not show if it procs.
    Time...line? Time isn't made out of lines. It is made out of circles. That is why clocks are round. ~ Caboose

  9. #729
    Brewmaster Anzen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by apepi View Post
    Is there an addon that can show me my Echo of Elements? I am leveling my Shaman and recount does not show if it procs.
    I can't say I know of one but to be honest I haven't really looked for one in great detail.

    The proc rate is 6% though if that helps (unlikely).

  10. #730
    Reading a lot of nonsense here, mainly about elemental being bad at single target dps.

    My main character is a Shaman since always. I can agree that elemental is indeed absolutely bad when low geared on some bosses (like Nazgrim) on which there is a huge skill cap for optimal dps (people that say otherwise, are the ones doing the shit dps), as mistakes hurt our dps bad. This however changes a bit on higher gear levels.

    I still have no luck with the trinket from shamans, and I kill them on every lockout. I'm currently using the Black Blood of Y'Shaarj, which is actually a pretty good trinket, and is miles better on AoE fights than the trinket from Malkorok, which is an absolute shit and worthless on trash even.

    Regardless, from my experience shamans are more than average on Single Target dps, and not rarely top on meters for any other fight. AoE is extremely high and single target is no less than any other class/spec, and sometimes more with equally geared players.

    I'm not going to dig for any stats or charts, but this is what I see and this is my opinion.

    Cheers!

  11. #731
    Brewmaster Anzen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OneFrozen View Post
    Regardless, from my experience shamans are more than average on Single Target dps, and not rarely top on meters for any other fight. AoE is extremely high and single target is no less than any other class/spec, and sometimes more with equally geared players.

    I'm not going to dig for any stats or charts, but this is what I see and this is my opinion.

    Cheers!
    This isn't true at all. You're either outplaying or outgearing the other DPS.

    Elemental more than average single target? Absolutely ridiculous. There is a plethora of logs and parses to prove the exact opposite.

    Quote Originally Posted by OneFrozen View Post
    there is a huge skill cap for optimal dps (people that say otherwise, are the ones doing the shit dps), as mistakes hurt our dps bad.
    Also not true. Elemental is arguably the easiest caster DPS in game. We actually lose next to no DPS from making mistakes; hell if you don't drop a single totem the whole fight you'd only lose ~ 5-6% DPS, which I think is silly considering totems are supposed to be our bread and butter. Our cleave is also insanely simple.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shauni View Post
    Being a good player in an average guild can make someone think it's class is fine
    ^

    Norushen
    Malkorok
    Iron Juggernaut
    Thok

    The only four almost entirely single target bosses this tier.

    Inb4 raidbots invalid or I need to l2p or something like that.

  12. #732
    Quote Originally Posted by Anzen View Post
    This isn't true at all. You're either outplaying or outgearing the other DPS.

    Elemental more than average single target? Absolutely ridiculous. There is a plethora of logs and parses to prove the exact opposite.

    Also not true. Elemental is arguably the easiest caster DPS in game. We actually lose next to no DPS from making mistakes, hell if you don't drop a single totem the whole fight you're only losing ~ 5-6% DPS, which I think is silly considering totems are supposed to be our bread and butter. Our cleave is also insanely simple.



    ^
    Elemental cleave is easy because it's one spell different than single target rotation, aoe is silly because it can be efficient with just one button. I can agree that there are classes with a huge skill cap, and fails hurt their dps a lot more.

    Thinking about it, the rotation of an ele shaman is quite simple, and I would say one of the simplest. The skill cap is probably not exactly in the rotation, but in gameplay and knowing when and how to use cooldowns and how to optimize procs, though this is actually true for every other class if you want to be optimal, and failing here hurt dps.

    Regardless, if what people say is true, about elemental being bad, then either I am very good or, I am playing with scrubs, which actually makes me feel bad, and I do play with a lot of other people, with higher gear than me, which I outperform, which leads me to still think that shamans ain't at all bad. But then again, I've been wrong before and seems that there is some proof to the opposite of what I see

    I can't even believe the charts are showing that.

    Edit: @Anzen, if you are Horde (but looking at your avatar, doubt it), we should probably test out our shamans in a raid
    Last edited by OneFrozen; 2014-01-02 at 10:13 AM.

  13. #733
    Brewmaster Anzen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OneFrozen View Post
    The skill cap is probably not exactly in the rotation, but in gameplay and knowing when and how to use cooldowns and how to optimize procs
    Which is also an almost redundant point. Procs should be always used asap as Elemental; no waiting for trinkets, or cooldowns or anything. We have two real damage cooldowns; our Fire Elemental and Ascendance. Our totems dynamically scale with our stats so it literally doesn't matter when you drop it, and so from your post we are at the skill-cap of Elemental; trying to save ascendance for when you have a trinket proc (which will nearly always happen at the start of the fight).

    I'd have a talk with your raiders and get them to step it up.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mortalomena View Post
    Ele shaman is really, really hard to play bad, so i doubt everyone is just bad at playing it. It just sucks singletarget.
    ^

  14. #734
    Quote Originally Posted by Anzen View Post
    Which is also an almost redundant point. Procs should be always used asap as Elemental; no waiting for trinkets, or cooldowns or anything. We have two real damage cooldowns; our Fire Elemental and Ascendance. Our totems dynamically scale with our stats so it literally doesn't matter when you drop it, and so from your post we are at the skill-cap of Elemental; trying to save ascendance for when you have a trinket proc (which will nearly always happen at the start of the fight).

    I'd have a talk with your raiders and get them to step it up.

    ^

    It's not just about saving cooldowns, which is usually needed on boss mechanics, not on procs. There are times where wasting a global cooldown for a flameshock, may fuck up your rotation and you may lose valuable procs, but you are also right, as this is not a huge waste of DPS (you do catch up better than other classes), but I do try to optimize every drop and wasting small % is still a waste for me.

    Well, I'm playing an elemental due to the forgiveness it gives, and the less things you need to watch for. I do know what is to play a Feral druid for example, at it's most skill cap moments during wotlk. Comparing to other classes (not all of course) it is quite relaxing to play an elemental and we may put them the label of the most shitiest of class/spec combos, but if you are a scrub (not you, but anyone), they can give you a single button and the ability to cast while walking, you will still be shit :P

    I also doubt that all shamans on those charts are shit. At least now I feel better for myself as a player, though I still say shit and scrubs a lot

    Edit: Just looking at those charts, but on my last Norushen I was at 300k dps, and the shamans on those charts show 200k.
    Last edited by OneFrozen; 2014-01-02 at 10:36 AM.

  15. #735
    Brewmaster Anzen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OneFrozen View Post
    Edit: Just looking at those charts, but on my last Norushen I was at 300k dps, and the shamans on those charts show 200k.
    Probably shouldn't have linked Norushen, I forgot about the skewing. If the person logging goes inside, it will only track their damage; proportionally lowering everyone elses damage. Also if someone was logging that sat outside the whole fight, they wouldn't be able to track the damage of the people inside so everyone in general just appears to do lower damage (except the guy logging of course).

  16. #736
    Quote Originally Posted by OneFrozen View Post
    Reading a lot of nonsense here, mainly about elemental being bad at single target dps.

    My main character is a Shaman since always. I can agree that elemental is indeed absolutely bad when low geared on some bosses (like Nazgrim) on which there is a huge skill cap for optimal dps (people that say otherwise, are the ones doing the shit dps), as mistakes hurt our dps bad. This however changes a bit on higher gear levels.

    I still have no luck with the trinket from shamans, and I kill them on every lockout. I'm currently using the Black Blood of Y'Shaarj, which is actually a pretty good trinket, and is miles better on AoE fights than the trinket from Malkorok, which is an absolute shit and worthless on trash even.

    Regardless, from my experience shamans are more than average on Single Target dps, and not rarely top on meters for any other fight. AoE is extremely high and single target is no less than any other class/spec, and sometimes more with equally geared players.

    I'm not going to dig for any stats or charts, but this is what I see and this is my opinion.

    Cheers!
    Your personal experience contradicts mathematical and statistical figures so I guess you must be right and the numbers must be wrong.

    See the issue here ? No ?

    Elemental is behind the curve in single target DPS and gets destroyed when multidotting is involved but shine on AoE fights. That's it, there is no point arguing that you beat your guild mates because that gives exactly 0 information about the bigger picture. So please refrain from doing that kind of post, we've been over this hundreds of times.

  17. #737
    Got a couple of questions about Elemental and some parts of the guide look like they haven't been updated since early MoP so I figure I'd ask in case.

    1) When using UF should we delay it at all to make sure the Unleash isn't wasted? The actual Unleash Buff lasts for 8 seconds so if it is comes off CD after a Lava Burst it will expire before the next one assuming there isn't a proc.
    2) Is EoE + UF universally the best talent choice or will it depend on gear/fight (should I sim it)?
    3) Early Earth Shock, yes or no?

  18. #738
    Quote Originally Posted by Glurp View Post
    Got a couple of questions about Elemental and some parts of the guide look like they haven't been updated since early MoP so I figure I'd ask in case.

    1) When using UF should we delay it at all to make sure the Unleash isn't wasted? The actual Unleash Buff lasts for 8 seconds so if it is comes off CD after a Lava Burst it will expire before the next one assuming there isn't a proc.
    2) Is EoE + UF universally the best talent choice or will it depend on gear/fight (should I sim it)?
    3) Early Earth Shock, yes or no?
    1) Don't delay UE for the most part. If LvB is coming off CD in a second, then sure, hit LB first and then UE>LvB. Otherwise, it's still higher priority than everything other than keeping FS on the target.

    2) It depends on the fight. UF is best for single target, PE for cleave/aoe or when specific mechanics call for extra burst phases, and EB for major target switching. EB also loses value at higher gear levels.

    3) ES at 5-7 stacks. You can still do it slightly earlier if you're worried about FS falling off, though, but don't change your rotation any for the 2pc.

  19. #739
    Quote Originally Posted by apepi View Post
    Is there an addon that can show me my Echo of Elements? I am leveling my Shaman and recount does not show if it procs.
    Proculas

    Quote Originally Posted by OneFrozen View Post
    I also doubt that all shamans on those charts are shit. At least now I feel better for myself as a player, though I still say shit and scrubs a lot

    Edit: Just looking at those charts, but on my last Norushen I was at 300k dps, and the shamans on those charts show 200k.
    The links Anzen provided are overall across all shamans, so yes you actually get some really bad logs in there (simply because the shaman wasn't the one logging, range, deaths, etc). Click on the "measure" on the right hand side and select 99th percentile, whilst this changes the overall DPS you will see that with an increase of player skill across all classes; a shaman will perform significantly lower than almost every class on single target fights.

    http://www.raidbots.com/dpsbot/Norus...all/14/60/p99/

  20. #740
    Stood in the Fire
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    Elemental focus buffed from 15% to 20% while hunters got HUGE buffs.. Yea well were so much ahead of hunters in singletarget that its justified

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