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  1. #841
    Pit Lord Anzen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hatchetman240 View Post
    questioning my sanity a bit here. Every time I sim DPS I show haste as an increase single target and mastery being better for AOE, <snip>
    Haste usually sims higher on pure single target, but since there are virtually 0 purely single target fights in SoO (excluding IJ), everyone runs Mastery by default.

  2. #842
    Quote Originally Posted by hatchetman240 View Post
    questioning my sanity a bit here. Every time I sim DPS I show haste as an increase single target and mastery being better for AOE, but the differences are slight, such that gaining 8% haste in exchange for 10% mastery is about even on AOE and a slight single target increase. Still, I see almost every shaman running 32-33% haste instead of 40% with lower mastery like me. Is the sim data bad, are my assumptions incorrect, or am I actually correct in staying at higher haste?

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...%B4dage/simple
    It might be worth running your sims with some extra targets in place, so that you get numbers reflecting however many targets you want to focus on? Should be able to just throw them in there and get the DPS benefit without having to tune, eg, damage taken or whatever.

  3. #843
    Endus,

    I can't believe you went through all the effort to create such an amazing WA's package... and didn't group them. If someone doesn't like the exact placing of ALL the bars and CD trackers.... they'd have to spend hours trying to line everything up again! It makes them almost unusable if you need to move them or am I missing something. You (or someone else) wouldn't happen to have an import that has the set up actually grouped do you? I think the set up is amazing... which simply makes it that much more frustrating that such a simple thing as having the whole thing grouped wasn't done.

  4. #844
    Here's a few questions:

    (Hopefully the armory realizes I didn't log out in pvp gear)
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...thrites/simple

    I have H Gaze, but tonight I got HWF mace from Shamans. I only have a flex shield (thought it was norm), but we do have H Noru on farm and just beat H Malk and H Spoils tonight with the new ilvl upgrades (Spoils is a joke). If I get an offhand that isn't a shield and it's just normal, is it worth it to have that OH with the HWF mace? Basically, HWF Mace + norm ilvl OH vs. H Gaze?

    Also, I did poop for dmg on Spoils. I tried Ele blast because there's quite a bit of target switching, but it didn't help very much. Is there something I should heavily concern myself with as for my rotation or priority on Spoils? Keep in mind, only myself and one other ranged are killing the 10 sec sparks.

    Lastly, my opener for H shams seems like it could use improvement. I'm currently using Fire Ele at 2.5 before pull, queuing earthquake aprox 1.5-1.75 sec before pull, and then using flame shock, stormlash, and my Ascendance macro in that order, at which point I spam lava beam. Any improvement? My ascendance macro consists of Ascendance, Eng Gloves, Orc Racial, and int pot. I've been peaking burst at approx 2.5M dps.

    Thanks for any and all help!
    Deathrites Armory
    Orc Elemental Shaman
    Bleeding Hollow
    7/7 Heroic Highmaul
    1/7 Mythic Highmaul

  5. #845
    Pit Lord Anzen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xeonii View Post
    Here's a few questions:

    (Hopefully the armory realizes I didn't log out in pvp gear)
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...thrites/simple

    I have H Gaze, but tonight I got HWF mace from Shamans. I only have a flex shield (thought it was norm), but we do have H Noru on farm and just beat H Malk and H Spoils tonight with the new ilvl upgrades (Spoils is a joke). If I get an offhand that isn't a shield and it's just normal, is it worth it to have that OH with the HWF mace? Basically, HWF Mace + norm ilvl OH vs. H Gaze?

    Also, I did poop for dmg on Spoils. I tried Ele blast because there's quite a bit of target switching, but it didn't help very much. Is there something I should heavily concern myself with as for my rotation or priority on Spoils? Keep in mind, only myself and one other ranged are killing the 10 sec sparks.

    Lastly, my opener for H shams seems like it could use improvement. I'm currently using Fire Ele at 2.5 before pull, queuing earthquake aprox 1.5-1.75 sec before pull, and then using flame shock, stormlash, and my Ascendance macro in that order, at which point I spam lava beam. Any improvement? My ascendance macro consists of Ascendance, Eng Gloves, Orc Racial, and int pot. I've been peaking burst at approx 2.5M dps.

    Thanks for any and all help!
    HWF Weapon & Normal OH would be better, using the flex shield they are probably about the same (though I'd still opt to you use the HWF MH over the staff).

    For spoils, two things. One, it all depends on how your group does it for how much damage you will do. If you are still taking the fight carefully and opening slowly, your DPS will suck. If you have it on farm and yolo open all the boxes, it doesn't matter which talent you use. Elemental Blast seems like a good shout on that boss, I use UF but it's half laziness and half not single target DPS'ing on that boss. Also Elemental is crap on sparks so you'll lose a fuck ton there having to constantly target switch. Get Arcane Mages/Destro Locks/SV Hunters to do it!

    Opener seems okay, but I wouldn't bother using Earthquake. Instead open with a Chain Lightning to proc your trinkets on the pull, then straight into Ascendance, don't bother with Earthquake or Flame Shock on the opener. Also, pad the fuck out of the slimes if you wanna do the big DPS! Be ready and in a good position to start spamming Chain Lightning straight as the boss starts casting Foul Geyser.

  6. #846
    Woops, I didn't mean to include flame shock. I don't ever include that. But is the Earthquake really not even necessary? Is it wasted trinket/cd procs? Oh well. Thanks for your input. I noticed how our Surv Hunter just obliterates sparks, and I just throw bolt after bolt into it, hoping I crit and don't have to send more than 3 casts at it. Last night, my side was: Blood DK, Disc Priest, Fury War, Surv Hunt, and myself as Ele.
    Deathrites Armory
    Orc Elemental Shaman
    Bleeding Hollow
    7/7 Heroic Highmaul
    1/7 Mythic Highmaul

  7. #847
    Pit Lord Anzen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xeonii View Post
    Woops, I didn't mean to include flame shock. I don't ever include that. But is the Earthquake really not even necessary? Is it wasted trinket/cd procs? Oh well. Thanks for your input. I noticed how our Surv Hunter just obliterates sparks, and I just throw bolt after bolt into it, hoping I crit and don't have to send more than 3 casts at it. Last night, my side was: Blood DK, Disc Priest, Fury War, Surv Hunt, and myself as Ele.
    Well no matter what the first spell is you start the fight with, you will not get the benefit of trinket procs on them. Chain Lightning would do more damage on 4 targets than Earthquake; you only really pre-cast Earthquake in SoO if you can't cast anything else (bosses that haven't activated yet, or about to re-submerge, adds are about to spawn).

  8. #848
    Hey all!

    I have read a lot of discuccion about "haste or mastery" fight. I have an elemental shaman in 552 iLvL, best dps, what I did - till today - is 212k (Malkorok Flex). So, how good is this? Now I prefer mastery with a bit haste reforge, but I don't know, I undecided.

    What's your oppinion?

  9. #849
    Quote Originally Posted by Sasakibire View Post
    Hey all!

    I have read a lot of discuccion about "haste or mastery" fight. I have an elemental shaman in 552 iLvL, best dps, what I did - till today - is 212k (Malkorok Flex). So, how good is this? Now I prefer mastery with a bit haste reforge, but I don't know, I undecided.

    What's your oppinion?
    If you post your armory (I tried searching for Sasakibire but couldn't find anyone) we can tell you a bit more. It heavily depends on what stage of the legendary chain you are on, what your trinkets are ect. The best answer is almost always to sim it, which we would need your armory link to do.


  10. #850
    Yeah sure, sorry. But I can't link my armory "until you post a few times." Great :S

    Character name: Ryuzakisama (Arathor)

    + I have Black Blood Y'Shaarj trinket (flex)

  11. #851
    Yeah, thats an anti-spam thing

    http://cl.ly/image/0Z0J3G2W0r1B

    According to the above simcraft screenshot, your three possible stats (Int, Mastery and Haste) are all basically worth exactly the same. However, because of you having the Meta gem and you have Bindings of Immerseus I would focus on Mastery over the others. As such, yellow slots like your legs should be Flat Mastery gems rather than Int+Mastery.

    Also according to that sim, your absolute perfect DPS on average should be (single target patchwerk, full buffs, flask and pots) 247k DPS, so the DPS you got isn't too bad, maybe slightly better. If you had some logs you could link then I could give you a bit more information on that.

    One tip is, if possible, drop Mining. It's the only Primary Profession I think that gives no DPS bonus at all. Whilst the differences are by no means huge, they are still something. You could use mining to collect all the materials you need (many guides out there to tell you what you need exactly) and then use them to level up Blacksmithing or Engineering.
    Last edited by Undefetter; 2014-06-03 at 09:12 PM.


  12. #852
    Does the Lightning Shield glyph trigger from Heroic Malk's ball-splosion thing? I'm soaking a good portion of the room in P2, and I'm the only one with a rocket belt. Anything I can do to help myself stay alive is great.
    Deathrites Armory
    Orc Elemental Shaman
    Bleeding Hollow
    7/7 Heroic Highmaul
    1/7 Mythic Highmaul

  13. #853
    Yup, pop your defensives and you'll be okay, but be careful because if your nitro boost fails you're in trouble

  14. #854
    Quote Originally Posted by Xeonii View Post
    Does the Lightning Shield glyph trigger from Heroic Malk's ball-splosion thing? I'm soaking a good portion of the room in P2, and I'm the only one with a rocket belt. Anything I can do to help myself stay alive is great.
    I'm not actually sure on that one. I'm behind on progression this expansion so I'm not sure on finer points of encounters like that. Zeruge may well be right as he likely know more than me (as I don't know at all ^_^) but Lightning Shield normally does not proc on AoE abilities, and I was under the impression that was small range AoE damage. It only procs on single target direct damage.


  15. #855
    Shouldn't need the lightning glyph, although admittedly I run the glyph almost full time. You could also run the flame shock to give you some healing to build the shield back up.

    If you are really worried, run astral shift. Between that and sham rage, you should be able to soak all three explosions before a breath - to which they should be close to coming back off of cool down soon after. The first use astral shift, then sham rage, then a hearthstone.

    Depending on your healers, you may not even need to pop a defensive due to a high shield.
    Last edited by Epistate; 2014-06-08 at 05:49 PM.

  16. #856

  17. #857
    Sorry if this was already answered but is it worth it to track which stat you get from EB? So you could refresh flame shock with haste.

  18. #858
    Quote Originally Posted by Post View Post
    Sorry if this was already answered but is it worth it to track which stat you get from EB? So you could refresh flame shock with haste.
    You would never want to refresh Flame Shock early anyway, the haste bonus would never be worth more than the amount of ticks you would lose.

    The only situation I can really think of where the proc you get from EB would make a difference would be delaying Ascendance if you got a crit proc, but trinket procs and use effects make a much bigger difference than this, and as such you want to time your Ascendance with your trinket procs. If you had two use effect trinkets and you would not lose any uptime by delaying them (say the fight has ~1 minute remaining, and your trinkets have a 2 minute cooldown) then it would be worth delaying the use of them and your Ascendance for another EB proc in the hope of Haste/Mastery.

    However, as that is not the case in SoO gear, and would be a very niche situation anyway, the answer is basically no, the proc you get from EB wont make a difference to your rotation.


  19. #859
    Pit Lord Anzen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Undefetter View Post
    You would never want to refresh Flame Shock early anyway, the haste bonus would never be worth more than the amount of ticks you would lose.
    In case of any confusion: (I assume) he means it's not worth refreshing FS with the haste bonus from EB and not just any haste bonus in general.

    It is very much worth renewing Flame Shock early should you have the LMG proc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Post View Post
    is it worth it to track which stat you get from EB? So you could refresh flame shock with haste.
    Definitely do not do this, don't even track it. Whilst there are some insanely small DPS advantages you could gain from tracking it, I can't help but think they'd be essentially nullified by having to concentrate (to some degree) on the aura and subconsciously playing round it.
    Last edited by Anzen; 2014-06-11 at 11:26 AM.

  20. #860
    Quote Originally Posted by Anzen View Post
    In case of any confusion: (I assume) he means it's not worth refreshing FS with the haste bonus from EB and not just any haste bonus in general.

    It is very much worth renewing Flame Shock early should you have the LMG proc.
    Just to clarify this point. A short term haste bonus of any kind will simply add ticks to your Flame Shock. Whenever you refresh your Flame Shock with some duration remaining it will always carry over 1 tick, so the number of ticks you get added to a new Flame Shock from whatever temporary haste bonus you have has to be greater than or equal too the number of ticks remaining on the Flame Shock already up. This is because you would gain 1 free tick as your haste bonus would be equal to the number of ticks remaining, and you always carry over that 1 tick.

    The Haste Breakpoints are (with no Goblin racial or Ancestral Swiftness) very roughly at 15% for +1 tick, 25% for +2 ticks, 35% for +3 ticks ect ect. As such a 30% Haste buff from BL/Legendary Meta Gem will add 3 ticks. This means that if your Flame Shock has 3 ticks remaining it would be a DPS boost to refresh Flame Shock - as long as it doesn't cause you to delay Earth Shock. However, it would be an even bigger DPS boost if you are able to refresh Flame Shock during the final tick if possible. If the proc/BL will run out when you have 4-9 seconds remaining on your Flame Shock, and it will not cause wasted Fulmination stacks, then refresh FlS during that time period. However, you should always wait as long as possible before refreshing to munch as few stacks as possible. The optimal situation is to refresh with BL/LMG whilst you are on the final tick.

    Sidenote: This is what people are referring to when they mention 'DoT snapshotting'. This is being removed in WoD so that Flame Shock will only benefit from Haste whilst you actually have the buff, then revert back to unbuffed automatically, and visa versa (you pop BL and any buff you already have on the target will increase in power). As such, in WoD, it will never be worth it to refresh Flame Shock before the final tick in any situation.
    Last edited by Undefetter; 2014-06-11 at 12:06 PM.


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