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  1. #861
    Quote Originally Posted by Post View Post
    Sorry if this was already answered but is it worth it to track which stat you get from EB? So you could refresh flame shock with haste.
    You would never want to refresh Flame Shock early anyway, the haste bonus would never be worth more than the amount of ticks you would lose.

    The only situation I can really think of where the proc you get from EB would make a difference would be delaying Ascendance if you got a crit proc, but trinket procs and use effects make a much bigger difference than this, and as such you want to time your Ascendance with your trinket procs. If you had two use effect trinkets and you would not lose any uptime by delaying them (say the fight has ~1 minute remaining, and your trinkets have a 2 minute cooldown) then it would be worth delaying the use of them and your Ascendance for another EB proc in the hope of Haste/Mastery.

    However, as that is not the case in SoO gear, and would be a very niche situation anyway, the answer is basically no, the proc you get from EB wont make a difference to your rotation.


  2. #862
    Warchief Anzen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Undefetter View Post
    You would never want to refresh Flame Shock early anyway, the haste bonus would never be worth more than the amount of ticks you would lose.
    In case of any confusion: (I assume) he means it's not worth refreshing FS with the haste bonus from EB and not just any haste bonus in general.

    It is very much worth renewing Flame Shock early should you have the LMG proc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Post View Post
    is it worth it to track which stat you get from EB? So you could refresh flame shock with haste.
    Definitely do not do this, don't even track it. Whilst there are some insanely small DPS advantages you could gain from tracking it, I can't help but think they'd be essentially nullified by having to concentrate (to some degree) on the aura and subconsciously playing round it.
    Last edited by Anzen; 2014-06-11 at 11:26 AM.

  3. #863
    Quote Originally Posted by Anzen View Post
    In case of any confusion: (I assume) he means it's not worth refreshing FS with the haste bonus from EB and not just any haste bonus in general.

    It is very much worth renewing Flame Shock early should you have the LMG proc.
    Just to clarify this point. A short term haste bonus of any kind will simply add ticks to your Flame Shock. Whenever you refresh your Flame Shock with some duration remaining it will always carry over 1 tick, so the number of ticks you get added to a new Flame Shock from whatever temporary haste bonus you have has to be greater than or equal too the number of ticks remaining on the Flame Shock already up. This is because you would gain 1 free tick as your haste bonus would be equal to the number of ticks remaining, and you always carry over that 1 tick.

    The Haste Breakpoints are (with no Goblin racial or Ancestral Swiftness) very roughly at 15% for +1 tick, 25% for +2 ticks, 35% for +3 ticks ect ect. As such a 30% Haste buff from BL/Legendary Meta Gem will add 3 ticks. This means that if your Flame Shock has 3 ticks remaining it would be a DPS boost to refresh Flame Shock - as long as it doesn't cause you to delay Earth Shock. However, it would be an even bigger DPS boost if you are able to refresh Flame Shock during the final tick if possible. If the proc/BL will run out when you have 4-9 seconds remaining on your Flame Shock, and it will not cause wasted Fulmination stacks, then refresh FlS during that time period. However, you should always wait as long as possible before refreshing to munch as few stacks as possible. The optimal situation is to refresh with BL/LMG whilst you are on the final tick.

    Sidenote: This is what people are referring to when they mention 'DoT snapshotting'. This is being removed in WoD so that Flame Shock will only benefit from Haste whilst you actually have the buff, then revert back to unbuffed automatically, and visa versa (you pop BL and any buff you already have on the target will increase in power). As such, in WoD, it will never be worth it to refresh Flame Shock before the final tick in any situation.
    Last edited by Undefetter; 2014-06-11 at 12:06 PM.


  4. #864
    Thank you both for the in-depth answers. Much appreciated.

  5. #865
    Normal Signet of the Dinomancers vs Heroic Seal of Eternal Sorrow? I'm about .6 over hit cap.
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  6. #866
    Quote Originally Posted by Xeonii View Post
    Normal Signet of the Dinomancers vs Heroic Seal of Eternal Sorrow? I'm about .6 over hit cap.
    This is hard to answer without upgraded information.

    Are you .6% over hit cap with or without the signet?

    I would probably use the normal signet upgraded over the heroic seal. This is assuming you are not killing heroic Thok consistently yet.

    Sim craft always has the answer. Any hit over 15% is wasted dps.

    Edit: looked at your armory. If I were you, I'd use signet and seal to replace the heroic galakras ring.
    Last edited by Epistate; 2014-06-12 at 01:31 AM.

  7. #867
    Quote Originally Posted by Epistate View Post

    Edit: looked at your armory. If I were you, I'd use signet and seal to replace the heroic galakras ring.
    Whats with the helm though, first thought was a challange mode set, but those trinkets arent great

  8. #868
    Hello all!

    I was wondering if you all could help me. I just picked elemental shaman back up and was looking for some advice!

    Armory Link: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...incloud/simple

    Now, i have been reading some guides and am still a little confused. How should i be gemming exactly? (It shows me under hit cap but im actually at the hit cap so i dont know why it shows me below it). Secondly, how much dps should i roughly be doing with 546 ilvl?

    Thanks in advance!

  9. #869
    Since you have your legendary meta, you may begin gemming mastery. Personally, I'd bump your haste up to around ~30% and then go full on mastery, but people on here will say otherwise. In either case, gemming intellect is now less attractive at your gear level.

  10. #870
    Quote Originally Posted by vanhealsing View Post
    Hello all!

    I was wondering if you all could help me. I just picked elemental shaman back up and was looking for some advice!

    Armory Link: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...incloud/simple

    Now, i have been reading some guides and am still a little confused. How should i be gemming exactly? (It shows me under hit cap but im actually at the hit cap so i dont know why it shows me below it). Secondly, how much dps should i roughly be doing with 546 ilvl?

    Thanks in advance!
    1 - You are currently over the hit cap on your armory link, but I suppose you likely did some gem/reforge changes since you posted this

    2 - Here is a screencap of the SimCraft stat weights for your current gear. Bare in mind that this is if you flatly added on more of each stat. If you reforged everything into pure Mastery, the value of Mastery would drop and could end up with a fresh Simulation telling you Haste is now better.



    As you can see, currently Haste is worth just over 90% of what Mastery is worth, and Mastery is worth over 50% of what Intellect is worth, meaning that as you get twice as much Mastery from gems as you get Intellect, you should be gemming for Mastery from now on. Also remember that this is on a purely single target encounter. On cleave/AoE encounters where Chain Lightning is a factor (note: that is most of SoO) Haste losing a significant amount of value because of how limited the gains are for Chain Lightning from Haste. This should even further push you towards a full Mastery build from now on.


  11. #871
    I was changing gems ect when you were prolly checking my armory hehe.

    I really appreciate all the feedback you've givin me, and the time to do a simcraft. I have changed some gems around and we'll give this a go.

    Thank you!

  12. #872
    Anyone capable of soloing a H siegecrafter belt? We've put one full raid night into the fight with little progress. 4th or 5th belt we're scattered as ranged, tanks are still trying to find the stack sweet spots. We're going to be attempting Evrelia Gaming's method.

    Our two belt teams will be warrior/myself and hunter/mage. Our hunter doesn't feel comfortable attempting each belt while we're smoothing out our approach.
    Deathrites Armory
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    7/7 Normal Highmaul
    6/7 Heroic Highmaul

  13. #873
    Bloodsail Admiral Liquidsteel's Avatar
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    You're hunter should man up and accept his responsibility of doing the belt. He should go do LFR/Flex and practice the disengage til he has it down. No point wasting raid time trying to learn it.

    By having 4 people do it you lose a lot of DPS having an extra person run back and forth. You also (as an elemental shaman) are fantastic down on the platform, taking care of the mines with chain lightning.

    Regarding the ranged all being spread out, make sure EVERYONE watches the video, and have someone as the designated ranged stack point. The movement is basically a pattern of middle - side - middle - side after the initial emp laser and magnet combo.

  14. #874
    On klaxxi hc, would using CL with only 2 targets be an increase on single target because of the extra fulmination charges?

  15. #875
    Warchief Anzen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tidus93 View Post
    On klaxxi hc, would using CL with only 2 targets be an increase on single target because of the extra fulmination charges?
    Not even remotely close.

    The only, even remotely passable use for Chain Lightning on that boss is to buff Ancestral Guidance healing (I still think this is semi-scumbaggy but if it helps you progress then w/e).

  16. #876
    Quote Originally Posted by Anzen View Post
    Not even remotely close.

    The only, even remotely passable use for Chain Lightning on that boss is to buff Ancestral Guidance healing (I still think this is semi-scumbaggy but if it helps you progress then w/e).
    Yeah I thought so but since this guide (http://www.warcraft.evrelia.com/elem...and-cooldowns/) says:

    However, on a fight like Paragons of the Klaxxi where the damage on the other targets is not needed, simply perform your single target rotation on one, but use Chain Lightning instead of Lightning Bolt, just like against two targets.
    I thought it could be a thing that people did, I'll just disregard it then, thanks.

  17. #877
    Warchief Anzen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tidus93 View Post
    Yeah I thought so but since this guide (http://www.warcraft.evrelia.com/elem...and-cooldowns/) says:


    I thought it could be a thing that people did, I'll just disregard it then, thanks.
    That would be the rotation if the DPS on the other targets actually mattered in any way. To note, it is a single target DPS increase to multi-dot Flame Shock on two targets (though not more). Not that this helps much, we're talking ~4% or less depending on LMG luck.

  18. #878
    Quote Originally Posted by Anzen View Post
    That would be the rotation if the DPS on the other targets actually mattered in any way. To note, it is a single target DPS increase to multi-dot Flame Shock on two targets (though not more). Not that this helps much, we're talking ~4% or less depending on LMG luck.
    Having recently picked up a ele shaman alt, this actually intrigues me a bit. My CL is at 1.07 cast, 42315 dmg (or 39546 dmg for 1 second). My Lightningbolt is at 1.43 sec, 73180 dmg (or 51174 dmg for 1 sec). So about 22-23% stronger.
    Obviously, CL on 3 targets generate lightning shield charges at tripple the rate. So I take it from what you say, that tripple-rate generation is not worth the 23% damage difference in using CL over Lightning bolt?
    (this is with the glyph, so I guess the actual difference would be about 20% without it).

  19. #879
    Quote Originally Posted by Dracodraco View Post
    Having recently picked up a ele shaman alt, this actually intrigues me a bit. My CL is at 1.07 cast, 42315 dmg (or 39546 dmg for 1 second). My Lightningbolt is at 1.43 sec, 73180 dmg (or 51174 dmg for 1 sec). So about 22-23% stronger.
    Obviously, CL on 3 targets generate lightning shield charges at tripple the rate. So I take it from what you say, that tripple-rate generation is not worth the 23% damage difference in using CL over Lightning bolt?
    (this is with the glyph, so I guess the actual difference would be about 20% without it).
    Chain Lightning generates charges at 1/3 the rate per target that Lightning Bolt does. So cleaving 2 targets only generates 2/3 of the procs, before counting Mastery. Chain Lightning also has a 1/3 chance to proc Mastery, but it can proc off both targets. Even so, still less of a chance to proc than Lightning Bolt.

    On 3 targets, the proc rate is the same as Lightning Bolt, however the single target damage is lower, as the cleave damage doesn't mean anything.

    tl;dr You have a lower proc rate with Chain Lightning on 2 targets than you do with Lightning Bolt on 1. Proc rate is the same on 3 targets, and you should use CL on 3 targets, but not on Klaxxi.


  20. #880
    Quote Originally Posted by Undefetter View Post
    Chain Lightning generates charges at 1/3 the rate per target that Lightning Bolt does. So cleaving 2 targets only generates 2/3 of the procs, before counting Mastery. Chain Lightning also has a 1/3 chance to proc Mastery, but it can proc off both targets. Even so, still less of a chance to proc than Lightning Bolt.

    On 3 targets, the proc rate is the same as Lightning Bolt, however the single target damage is lower, as the cleave damage doesn't mean anything.

    tl;dr You have a lower proc rate with Chain Lightning on 2 targets than you do with Lightning Bolt on 1. Proc rate is the same on 3 targets, and you should use CL on 3 targets, but not on Klaxxi.
    Are you sure? I can only find the comments on wowhead as a source, and it states both has a 60% chance to trigger and spending 10 min on a 3-target-dummy, I am generating on average 3-4x lightning charges per CL, and often get all 6 charges (which would be unreasonable even with 100% mastery). I'm not sure how to test it better, but I really don't believe CL only has a 20% chance per target hit to generate a charge.
    Lightningbolt? Max 2, usually 1. Sometimes zero.

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