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  1. #921
    Quote Originally Posted by Racthoh View Post
    ok so if it's 2 targets, single target with chain lightning and if it's 3 just chain lightning all day ignoring charges/flame shock/lava proc?

    also if it's just 2 targets and we are doing the single target rotation (and let's assume both flame shock run full duration), it is really not worth trying to get in another flame shock for the extra lava burst? it is pretty high on dmg per execute as well i'm guessing?

    sorry for the dumb question. i am not even level 90 on my shaman, just bored and felt like reading the guide.
    1 Target - FlS > UE* > LvB > EB* > 7ES > ST > LB

    2-3 Targets - FlS** > UE* > LvB > EB* > 7ES > ST > CL

    4+ Target - CL

    7+ Targets - TS (assuming you don't have to move) > CL

    * - Only cast UE if you have UF Talented, obviously only cast EB if you have it talented

    ** - This is a pretty safe guide to follow. FlS is worth it up too 3 targets, assuming you don't waste ES Stacks because of using it, but you will. As such, its generally best to just maintain it on both targets vs 2, and probably only on 1 vs 3, because you will be gaining so many stacks. You always want to have 1 up though on <=3 targets, for your Lava Burst.
    Last edited by Undefetter; 2014-08-09 at 04:29 PM.


  2. #922
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    Quote Originally Posted by Undefetter View Post
    2-3 Targets - FlS** > UE* > LvB > EB* > 7ES > ST > CL
    I can't say using UE on anything more than single target is a good idea since the buff doesn't effect Chain Lightning. I think it's probably better to just spam CL on three targets, currently hold rank 1 on Fallen Protectors with 100% Chain Lightning - hard class!

  3. #923
    Quote Originally Posted by Anzen View Post
    I can't say using UE on anything more than single target is a good idea since the buff doesn't effect Chain Lightning. I think it's probably better to just spam CL on three targets, currently hold rank 1 on Fallen Protectors with 100% Chain Lightning - hard class!
    You get a lot more LvB procs with multiple Flame Shocks, so that makes up for it. The difference is really minimal though, and if you are only able to sustain 1 Flame Shock then you are right, it isn't worth it. Theres pretty much no loss in doing it either way really. Just spamming Chain Lightning on 3 targets and only using ES at 7 stacks is fine too. Considering the nature of our RNG (if you don't get Master procs from LvB or Lava Surge procs from FlS then you heavily lose out compared to just spamming CL, but if you get loads of procs you win) you can definitely just use the easier rotation and spam CL to be a Sith Lord.
    Last edited by Undefetter; 2014-08-08 at 11:37 AM.


  4. #924
    thanks guys!
    Quote Originally Posted by inboundpaper View Post
    The short answer is nope, the long answer is noooooooooooooooope.

  5. #925

    Helping out a friend

    Hey guys I am not 100% positive that this would be the thread to post this but I was looking for a little bit of help. My guild has a shaman who generally shows up and is a great guy but he does not perform as well as we would like. At first we thought it was just ele shamans being gimped, since they don't sim as high - on top of which he was always complaining about gear. He is however 580+ and when we decided to do 25mans for a little bit there were ele shamans wrecking meters while he still wasn't doing so well. I have come to the conclusion that it is his rotation / cd usage, but he disagrees and blames his gear / class for not doing so well. He would probably be a main raider instead of a bench if he could pick up his numbers and like I said he is a good guy/friend so I wana help him out.

    I myself know nothing about shamans besides resto (I myself am a healer) so I can't help him nearly as much as I want to.

    us.battle.net/wow/en/character/bleeding-hollow/Promonous/simple

    Here are some days where he was in raid with us. Some of these are 10

    warcraftlogs.com/reports/xRtNdgpKbny6hWrM
    warcraftlogs.com/reports/n8mg6ALw4c1NHfzV
    warcraftlogs.com/reports/MAQvLJWy2cFngPTa
    warcraftlogs.com/reports/gdwWbMQABLqvztxn
    warcraftlogs.com/reports/6X1NAn9bcPWfJgqd

    Thanks a ton in advance for any and all replies with feedback on how to help out my friend.
    Last edited by decalb; 2014-08-24 at 10:11 PM.

  6. #926
    Since I am on my smartphone right now, I was only able to have a look at the armory and could not check the logs.

    However, a few things are already off there:

    Your shaman is quite over the hit cap but is still using the leg enchant with spirit instead of crit. The spirit gem seems to be fine since the socket bonus is +120 into, though he gains nothing from the spirit and could use stamina+mastery instead.

    Further, I wonder why he is using Elemental Blast at his item level. Most recommended nowadays is Unleashed Fury.

    Nevertheless, both things are just minor issues and would not really improve his dps by a large margin on their on - probably not more than 5k to 10k.

    Maybe you could also point out, who exactly is meant by

    "there were ele shamans wrecking meters while he still wasn't doing so well."

    and to which fights you refer.

  7. #927
    Quote Originally Posted by decalb View Post
    Hey guys I am not 100% positive that this would be the thread to post this but I was looking for a little bit of help. My guild has a shaman who generally shows up and is a great guy but he does not perform as well as we would like. At first we thought it was just ele shamans being gimped, since they don't sim as high - on top of which he was always complaining about gear. He is however 580+ and when we decided to do 25mans for a little bit there were ele shamans wrecking meters while he still wasn't doing so well. I have come to the conclusion that it is his rotation / cd usage, but he disagrees and blames his gear / class for not doing so well. He would probably be a main raider instead of a bench if he could pick up his numbers and like I said he is a good guy/friend so I wana help him out.

    I myself know nothing about shamans besides resto (I myself am a healer) so I can't help him nearly as much as I want to.

    us.battle.net/wow/en/character/bleeding-hollow/Promonous/simple

    Here are some days where he was in raid with us. Some of these are 10

    warcraftlogs.com/reports/xRtNdgpKbny6hWrM
    warcraftlogs.com/reports/n8mg6ALw4c1NHfzV
    warcraftlogs.com/reports/MAQvLJWy2cFngPTa
    warcraftlogs.com/reports/gdwWbMQABLqvztxn
    warcraftlogs.com/reports/6X1NAn9bcPWfJgqd

    Thanks a ton in advance for any and all replies with feedback on how to help out my friend.

    I took a look at the attempts. One thing that definitely stands out to me is the COMPLETE lack of searing totem usage. It makes it REALLY easy to see mistaked like this when you have another Ele shaman 3rd on your last attempt. He maintains roughly 37% uptime on searing totem while your friend NEVER casts it. Also, looking to the filler spell, Reevy casts 36 lightning bolts in your last attempt while your buddy only got 24 in. That's a disparaging difference. With a difference like that, I would expect to see a lot more lava bursts but alas, they are actually the same on that one. It also seems as though Reevy got 9 Earth Shocks off, amounting to 9 Fulmination procs. I only see 4 coming from Promonous. The final thing that popped out to me was the lack of Earth Elemental usage from Promonous. Obviously it's not a big DPS CD but none the less, it's a DPS CD.

    I probably missed a TON. I'm an enhance main but hopefully my knowledge was enough.

    Bottom line? It would seem that it has to be a fundamental rotational error. You simply can't blame it on gear when ALL of these things could be fixed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oneirophobia View Post
    Besides, they have updated models, updated abilities, and are in completely different locations. Really the only thing psyically the same is their names, so if you don't care for plotlines whats it matter who the dragons are? They're just meaningless loot bags to you.
    Shaman Armory
    Mage Armory

  8. #928
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    Hey there friends

    Just go a very stupid question, does Fire elemental snapshot procs/lust/whatever ? Or I can use it on CD without worrying about it ?

    Thanks

  9. #929
    Fire Elemental no longer snapshots those, but still profits from them.

    So yeah, you can put it down on CD, but try to optimize it around lust/proccs, etc.

  10. #930
    Quote Originally Posted by Aramile View Post
    I took a look at the attempts. One thing that definitely stands out to me is the COMPLETE lack of searing totem usage. It makes it REALLY easy to see mistaked like this when you have another Ele shaman 3rd on your last attempt. He maintains roughly 37% uptime on searing totem while your friend NEVER casts it. Also, looking to the filler spell, Reevy casts 36 lightning bolts in your last attempt while your buddy only got 24 in. That's a disparaging difference. With a difference like that, I would expect to see a lot more lava bursts but alas, they are actually the same on that one. It also seems as though Reevy got 9 Earth Shocks off, amounting to 9 Fulmination procs. I only see 4 coming from Promonous. The final thing that popped out to me was the lack of Earth Elemental usage from Promonous. Obviously it's not a big DPS CD but none the less, it's a DPS CD.

    I probably missed a TON. I'm an enhance main but hopefully my knowledge was enough.

    Bottom line? It would seem that it has to be a fundamental rotational error. You simply can't blame it on gear when ALL of these things could be fixed.
    Hey thanks a lot for helping out even though it's not your main spec. Yeah I see the Earth Shock / Searing totem thing too and that's crazy. I was trying to up his dps a little by working on him on a target dummy and changing some things up - when we changed things that should've ended up as a dps inc, his dps usually went down. It was weird.

    My question is, we'd go for about 3minutes each on a target dummy and I found that his LvB and LB cast times were usually fairly different. I'm not defending the numbers in his logs because he might really just be messing up, but he kept blaming it on RNG from echoes and his mastery not being at 100% still. Is that possible? Or is he just not performing his rotation as tightly as possible.

    If someone else can also check these logs out that does main Ele i'd super appreciate it !

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Xentres View Post
    Since I am on my smartphone right now, I was only able to have a look at the armory and could not check the logs.

    However, a few things are already off there:

    Your shaman is quite over the hit cap but is still using the leg enchant with spirit instead of crit. The spirit gem seems to be fine since the socket bonus is +120 into, though he gains nothing from the spirit and could use stamina+mastery instead.

    Further, I wonder why he is using Elemental Blast at his item level. Most recommended nowadays is Unleashed Fury.

    Nevertheless, both things are just minor issues and would not really improve his dps by a large margin on their on - probably not more than 5k to 10k.

    Maybe you could also point out, who exactly is meant by

    "there were ele shamans wrecking meters while he still wasn't doing so well."

    and to which fights you refer.
    Yeah I was checking out his gear and talents and trying to make swaps but his dps wasn't changing as drastically as by what other shamans were beating by.
    By other ele shamans wrecking him on meters I was referring to Reevy in at least these two raid nights

    warcraftlogs.com/reports/6X1NAn9bcPWfJgqd
    warcraftlogs.com/reports/gdwWbMQABLqvztxn

  11. #931
    Ok, I will try to make a bit more of an in-depth analysis.

    I would like to point out that I will try to evaluate your shamans situation based on your Marlkorok heroic kill from Fri Aug 01 2014.

    1.)
    First of all, let's have a look at your overall raid situation:

    http://www.warcraftlogs.com/rankings...ztxn#boss=1595

    This shows were you and your guild mates stand compared to others.
    It is quite common for somehow mediocre guilds (as yours and mine) that there is a significant gap between different players regarding how they perform for their individual classes.

    As you can see, your "problem shaman" is not your only somehow low-performing player and also mostly your hunters could do a better job.

    Now, let's stop defending Promonous and compare him to your better-performing Reevy.

    2.)

    Unfortunately, both Reevy and Promonous died during that encounter, and it even appears that Promonous has more uptime on the boss because Reevy seems to stay dead for the last ten seconds.

    First of all, Reevy used Unleashed Fury for that fight which is the most appropriate choice for this fight due to movement (avoiding bubbles, running into pool, repositioning for breath) while Promonous used the suboptimal talent choice of EB.

    Further, what is definitely interesting is that Flame Shock uptime is not really perfect for both of them, however Reevy has 10% higher uptime, which together with the talent choice (UE also boosts LvB dmg) most probably is the reason why Reevys average Lava burst dmg by 20% highers than that of Promonous (377k for Reevy compared to 314k for Promonous). Because of the shaman mastery, this then also results in lower Lava burst overload dmg and even more broadens the gap between the two.

    Further, low FS uptime also results in less Lava Surge procs. Here, Reevy has 36 against 26 of Promonous. Though Reevy seems to be more lucky with Lava Surge procs in general, the gap is probably broadened by the 10% FS uptime difference between both.

    Another important aspect, even more important due to Shamane set bonus, is the usage of Fulmination.
    Here, Reevy cast 13 fulminations in comparison to Promonous, leading to an uptime of the Elemental Discharge debuff on the boss (~ +4% dmg) of 54% for Reevy and 28% for Promonous.

    Further, Searing totem uptime also seems to be quite different - casted 65% by Reevy and only 38% for Promonous. Here, consider that 1 minute of the fight is "blocked" by fire elemental, so maximum uptime for Searing totem is ~80% for your fight length.

    Since Promonous chose EB as his talent, let's have a look at his usage of this spell.
    He used the spell 13 times (pure casts) during 4:57 min. Not considering that he died, but subtracting 30 seconds for 2 times of ascendance during which you should not use the spell (which he not did), we have 4:27 mins to consider.
    Therefore, he has a usage of 1 EB per 20,4 secs.
    Having in mind that EB is on a 12 seconds CD and lets assume an average cast time of ~1.3 secs, he should have cast this spell every 13,3 secs.
    Thus, his EB usage is close to abysmal.

    There are also a few other things to point out:

    First, Reevy has at least 1 pot out of 2 possible pots during this fight, whereas Promonous did not even use one.

    Second, Promonous cannot really make up big excuses because of "bad mastery / echo proc luck" as far as I understand the log correctly:

    Echo procs:
    Promonous has 81 casts and 87 hits of LB - 6 echo procs. Reevy has 82 casts and 88 hits of LB - 6 echo procs
    Promonous has 39 casts abd 40 hits of Lvb - 1 echo proc. (Reevy has 47 casts abd 51 hits of Lvb - 4 echo procs

    Overload procs (+Echo procs from Overload casts):
    Promonous has 73 overloads from 81 casts - 90,1%. Reevy has 63 overloads from 82 casts of LB - 76,8%.
    Promonous has 42 overloads from 39 casts of LvB - 107,65 % (due to Overload echo procs probably!). Reevy has 39 overloads from 47 casts of LvB - 82,9%.

    I assume that in total the dmg from echo procs and overload procs might even be in favour for Promonous!

    Third, it appears that Reevy used Ancestral guidance once during the fight, which is OK for this fight length. In contrast thereto, Promonous used Healing stream totem 8 times (0 times for Reevy). Therefore he already looses GCDs compared to Reevy. Further, if he talented AG (which is the optimal choice here for Ele), he did not use it once. However, i cannot say whether he used Rushing streams talent or AG talent. Nevertheless, this also inflicted his dps negatively.

    Though, i guess that there are even more things to analyze, these are my present remarks.

    TL/DR:
    Reevy presses the right buttons more often, uses more optimal talents, uses pots and simply performs bettter than Promonous.
    Last edited by Xentres; 2014-08-26 at 06:17 PM.

  12. #932
    Quote Originally Posted by Anzen View Post
    I can't say using UE on anything more than single target is a good idea since the buff doesn't effect Chain Lightning. I think it's probably better to just spam CL on three targets, currently hold rank 1 on Fallen Protectors with 100% Chain Lightning - hard class!
    Quick question: Do you use the glyph for CL on that fight? I think I tried dropping it a while ago and I think my damage overall was lower (probably due to much slower kill times) I would assume that due to the fast kills now, that not using the glyph is more optimal? I also just use fulmination on the bosses for the 2 set bonus, not sure if worth it!

    Actually never mind, its clear that using the glyph is better due to the bosses being pushed so often=more targets to cleave more often. Only times during that fight where you have only 3 targets anyway is 100%>66% (Of rook) and 33%>0% (of he)
    Last edited by Hypasonic; 2014-08-30 at 03:33 PM.

  13. #933
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hypasonic View Post
    Quick question: Do you use the glyph for CL on that fight? I think I tried dropping it a while ago and I think my damage overall was lower (probably due to much slower kill times) I would assume that due to the fast kills now, that not using the glyph is more optimal? I also just use fulmination on the bosses for the 2 set bonus, not sure if worth it!

    Actually never mind, its clear that using the glyph is better due to the bosses being pushed so often=more targets to cleave more often. Only times during that fight where you have only 3 targets anyway is 100%>66% (Of rook) and 33%>0% (of he)
    I definitely use the glyph, the damage gain from Suns phase is way too stronk to run without.

    I also run primal elementalist (but only use Fire Elemental) and use the cleave trinket from malkorok. I don't bother fulminating or anything like that, it's not worth it. Almost got some killer rank (was at almost 900k dps this week) but Sun ended up healing up QQ.

  14. #934
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    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Anzen View Post
    I definitely use the glyph, the damage gain from Suns phase is way too stronk to run without.

    I also run primal elementalist (but only use Fire Elemental) and use the cleave trinket from malkorok. I don't bother fulminating or anything like that, it's not worth it. Almost got some killer rank (was at almost 900k dps this week) but Sun ended up healing up QQ.
    Did you glyph FET?
    Last edited by Lockren; 2014-09-04 at 09:32 PM. Reason: i r noob at replying with qot

  15. #935
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lockren View Post
    - - - Updated - - -



    Did you glyph FET?
    Nope, can't see it being worth it.

  16. #936
    Is it likely this thread will be updated for 6.0? I havent had a chance to play the beta myself, and would greatly appreciate a guide for the changes, come 6.0+.

  17. #937
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doozk View Post
    Is it likely this thread will be updated for 6.0? I havent had a chance to play the beta myself, and would greatly appreciate a guide for the changes, come 6.0+.
    I'd imagine this guide will be completely updated for WoD entirely once a bit of testing has been done with talents/stats after they make live. I can't see it being worth re-making an entire guide for the pre-patch though :P

  18. #938
    Quote Originally Posted by Anzen View Post
    I'd imagine this guide will be completely updated for WoD entirely once a bit of testing has been done with talents/stats after they make live. I can't see it being worth re-making an entire guide for the pre-patch though :P
    Indeed, it will be remade. I think various different people are putting together guides as we speak. These are normally a group effort, and they are updated every patch, but new ones are normally done every expansion, because the changes are much larger, as you said.


  19. #939
    Hey guys.. Havent played wow for about 5 months and I revisited today my Elemental Shaman and wow, things have changed.
    He is by far my favorite class and he is really good atm...
    Sadly my gear is really low (running some heroics) but its nice!

  20. #940
    Tonight is our last night vs Heroic Gary! My ele shaman needs a tune up before I show up tonight.

    What lvl 90 talent for Heroic Gary? How's mastery for the fight and how should I gem? How's earthquake been doing for phase 1? Are we still meatball throwing sith lords? I did a random lfr with a friend the other night, and it was the first time playing for a couple weeks because of college, and shit, stationary lb feels quite lame.
    Deathrites Armory
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    Bleeding Hollow

    7/7 Normal Highmaul
    6/7 Heroic Highmaul

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