1. #1
    Herald of the Titans Myz's Avatar
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    Question How do you keep up with the Joneses?

    Hi all,

    To preface this thread: I don't want any irrational Legion bashing or warped nostalgia reminiscing in here. My goal is to start a discussion on a topic I'm struggling with, personally.

    I have played WoW since Vanilla. As I've finished university and started my professional career throughout these 12 years, my own take on what WoW is for me has changed, which is only normal.
    Raiding has always been my end-game: working together to solve these big puzzles is a great feeling. That's what I want to achieve, and I want to achieve it at a decent to average performance level, meaning that I want to clear Mythic before the next tier/nerf releases.

    I started Legion with the same goal once more. Legion brought back a lot of things that I absolutely love and I've found my spark again that I lost on the way in Draenor.
    However, Legion is also dragging me down: I can't do what I want to do. I just can't, there's not enough time.

    As a raider it's your responsibility to keep your gear up to date for the content you're clearing, and technically also to keep up with your teammates: if your entire team has gone through the effort of reaching 850 (as an example) prior to N/HC release, and you enter N at 835 (which is actually good enough to progress), you're letting the others down.

    As a raider with a career and a demanding hobby, how am I ever going to keep up?

    This question has been bothering me all day: I get up at 5am, get home between 7 and 8pm. I manage to log in half an hour later after I've had dinner. During the time I spent at work, no small part of my raid team has done:
    - Interesting world quests (daily or good drops)
    - Their weekly Mythic and/or multiple Mythic+
    - Their daily Heroic
    - Suramar/other faction stuff

    All of these give you a non-negligible chance at raid-appropriate upgrades, be it through WF/TF item upgrades or sheer AP to continue upgrading your Artifact.
    Meanwhile, on non-raid nights I have time for maybe 1 Mythic +, my daily HC and my 4 World Quests before hitting the sack. On some nights a bit more, on others maybe even less.

    How am I going to keep up with the Joneses? How can I not feel like I'm letting the team down or that I need to sacrifice other aspects of my life in order to keep up, something I am (obviously) not going to do.

    Legion has a massive amount of content to run through in this early stage, which is absolutely great. However, I do feel like too much of this content has a sizeable chance at upgrades that will aid in raiding.

    I don't hate the game, I haven't stopped loving it. However, I have never felt the urge to run through so many different aspects of the game simply to not disappoint my fellow team members and record a subpar performance compared to my peers. And it's making me feel like shit.

    How do you manage? I'd really like to know.

    Thanks.

  2. #2
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    I'm struggling right now. Some stuff I've just let fall off like doing all the weekly mythics (still doing mythic+), nightfallen rep (already have the two dungeons unlocked), non AP world quests, and the daily heroic. Even then I am going to have to grind out class hall resources pretty soon.

  3. #3
    I think a lot of it is saber-rattling and the illusion that you have to do it all. Many of the key raiders in my guild don't log in for days, do a few WQ before raid starts and still play well. Because whether or not you are revered with Highmountain won't affect your perfomance in the raid. I don't do all WQs, let alone all Emissary quests. Why? I focus on Suramar and the rest depends on whether I want to. There is lots of content yes, but not everything relates to you letting down/not letting down your friends. Artefact research and COH-missions have long cooldowns, and the mobile app helps a lot.

    You don't need to do it all
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  4. #4
    Sounds like you're in a much more healthy place than your guildmates, who apparently have time to sit home all day and play WoW. I'd take some solace in that. Unless you're willing to pay other people to play your toons for you in mythics for gear or something, there's really nothing you can do about the finite amount of time you have to spend in game.

    Personally I gave up competitive raiding in Wrath, so while I understand where you're coming from I can't give you any advice in regards to the current game. If your raid group is getting down on you due to the fact that you're not able to keep up though, you may have to find another group.

    EDIT: yeah as the guy above me said, don't feel like you have to do all the world quests. The emissary caches are nice, but I don't personally know anyone who's gotten a legendary or other solid upgrade from them. (I know legendaries do drop from them, but eh) I'd say just run any quests that pop up that give you a solid upgrade and ignore anything else that isn't something that's really important to you. Not sure that any of the factions really give anything all that amazing at exalted.
    Last edited by Sibut; 2016-09-26 at 08:39 PM.
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  5. #5
    The only way you're going to keep up is if your "friends" support you. WoW is a VERY time-intensive game, Legion more so than ever before. You have to grind AP and rep constantly or you're just not going to be able to stay competitive with your raid team.

    So, what I recommend is that you find friends who are actually going to help you. Maybe they wait to do their mythic+ run until you're on. Maybe they farm you some obliterum to upgrade crafted gear to 850. Maybe they help you out with some gold, or give you mats to make raid consumables and the like.

    If you don't have that support, there is no way you're going to match someone who can play 2-3 times as many hours as you. It's simply the nature of the game.
    "To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize." - Voltaire

    If you have to attack a person instead of what they're saying, then you've already lost the argument.

  6. #6
    The Lightbringer Taeldorian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luftdot View Post
    I think a lot of it is saber-rattling and the illusion that you have to do it all. Many of the key raiders in my guild don't log in for days, do a few WQ before raid starts and still play well. Because whether or not you are revered with Highmountain won't affect your perfomance in the raid. I don't do all WQs, let alone all Emissary quests. Why? I focus on Suramar and the rest depends on whether I want to. There is lots of content yes, but not everything relates to you letting down/not letting down your friends. Artefact research and COH-missions have long cooldowns, and the mobile app helps a lot.

    You don't need to do it all
    Basically this.

    You don't need to do everything. I raid as well (heroic/mythic progression) and I usually just do some AP world quests (the ones under 300 I ignore). I do a few mythic+ runs (about 3 or 4 per week, a few higher levels and a few 2+).

    You can ignore a few things and focus on others. It isn't required that you do everything to keep up unless your a world first mythic raider/top 50 guild.

    Here's my timeframe:

    1h-1h 30m on world quests. AP/order hall resources and emissary all get done.
    1h-2h on mythic+ runs. It's only ever an hour if I'm doing 5+ and higher. Anything lower and my guildies get the timer.
    30m on suramar rep.

    That's really all I do. The rest is just raiding, but that's how a normal day looks for me. Sometimes I can do more shit but on average that's what I get done.
    Last edited by Taeldorian; 2016-09-26 at 08:58 PM.

  7. #7
    You can always "get gud" at the auction house, make gold and then craft your own gear. I ended up make a lot of gear for my warlock because of how heavily mastery is weighted, so it was easier for me to farm some leather to sell for a ton, then make gear as opposed to just running dungeons hoping for drops. AH can have the added benefit on not requiring playing, i.e. flipping things. Should be more than enough to get you into raids with good gear so yo ucan help your guild.

  8. #8
    Mythics are for dedicated people who are willing to sacrifice much of their free time to play and advance their character.
    For normal/heroic the grind doesnt matter.

    How many of those threads do we need weekly? 'I dont have time to grind and im not on par with others who grind their asses off, its unfair' lol... Its been like that since release.
    That being said, i grew up too and dont have as much time to play as i used to. But i dont feel im at an unfair position. More grind = more power. Its the core of mmorpg.

  9. #9
    The Patient Marrel's Avatar
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    In the endgame time spent vs. char progression follows an exponential decay. The closer you get to being "done" with the game, the more time it takes for less rewards.

    It basically boils down to the fact that you don't need to do everything. Even if you feel like your'e not keeping up with others, look objectively at how far ahead of you they are in terms of ilvl. Not how much time they spend vs. how much time you spend.

    However, if you're simply in over your head by joining a mythic progression guild that wants to do split runs and raids 15 hours a week, it may be time to lower your standards for what guild you are in if you can't make the cut. There are a wide range of guilds out there.

  10. #10
    Herald of the Titans Myz's Avatar
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    It's true that you don't need to do everything, at least not if you're gearing up for a World First Mythic race.

    However, even at the lower progression bracket of rank 700-1000 worldwide, there's still a certain pressure and necessity to keep your gear lvl at least within a certain acceptable boundary of your team members.

    I just can't recall ever having felt this pressure to play all these different aspects of the game to progress my character outside of raids in order to get ready for those raids.

  11. #11
    Brewmaster Icaras's Avatar
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    It sounds to me like you're asking "How do I keep up with people that have more time to play than me?"...I can only think the answer is "you don't".

    Instead of racing after the speedy ass of the various "Jones" in your guild, wouldn't it be better to simply chat with the raid leader and see if your rate of progress is an issue for the raid team.

    If it is, you were probably going to get kicked out, so finding out up front at least gives you a chance to quit on your own terms, rather than rocking up one night to find you've already been replaced behind your back.
    And if that isn't going to happen (IE: Your raid team isn't full of dicks) then you can just continue on as is, but with the added benefit of not having to stress.

    Otherwise, the only other option is to sacrifice things like sleep to try and get in that extra time, or calling sick a few days to try and catch up, maybe even day a few days leave...but then you need to factor in, will the people your chasing stop playing to allow you to catch up (Probably not) and even if you DO by some miracle catch up...can you really keep up with the amount of play that was more than you normally wanted, just to continue keeping up? I'd say probably not, there's only so much sleep a working man can sacriofice before it effects him enough to potentially NOT be a working man anymore, you can't call in sick all the time, and leave...well assuming you can get it when you want it, is it worth using for wow time, and then possibly having none for xmas or a holiday later?
    Last edited by Icaras; Yesterday at 12:21 PM.
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  12. #12
    Another one of these threads? When will people get by no means do they have to do everything everyday. Why do you think the emissary quests last 3 days for ? Secondly we will be doing this expansion for at least 2 more years so again their is no rush to do it all now in less than a month since release. Any pressure to do it all is all made by yourself or you are in the wrong guild for yourself and your playtime and again that is on the individual. If you aren't having fun what is the point of playing?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Icaras View Post
    It sounds to me like you're asking "How do I keep up with people that have more time to play than me?"...I can only think the answer is "you don't".

    Instead of racing after the speedy ass of the various "Jones" in your guild, wouldn't it be better to simply chat with the raid leader and see if your rate of progress is an issue for the raid team.

    If it is, you were probably going to get kicked out, so finding out up front at least gives you a chance to quit on your own terms, rather than rocking up one night to find you've already been replaced behind your back.
    And if that isn't going to happen (IE: Your raid team isn't full of dicks) then you can just continue on as is, but with the added benefit of not having to stress.

    Otherwise, the only other option is to sacrifice things like sleep to try and get in that extra time, or calling sick a few days to try and catch up, maybe even day a few days leave...but then you need to factor in, will the people your chasing stop playing to allow you to catch up (Probably not) and even if you DO by some miracle catch up...can you really keep up with the amount of play that was more than you normally wanted, just to continue keeping up? I'd say probably not, there's only so much sleep a working man can sacriofice before it effects him enough to potentially NOT be a working man anymore, you can't call in sick all the time, and leave...well assuming you can get it when you want it, is it worth using for wow time, and then possibly having none for xmas or a holiday later?
    Calling in sick to a job for a game is probably some of the stupidest advice I have ever seen here and that is saying a lot.

  13. #13
    I don't ever feel the need to do all world quests, or any dungeon at all.

    I usually do the four emissary world quests, one or two heroic dungeons (depends on how often the goodie bag for tanks pops up) and one mythic dungeon per day. If some really interesting world quest pops up (which would really be some gear upgrade or a whole bunch of fish for food) I do that too. Doesn't take much longer than two hours at all per day.

  14. #14
    I do not have kids, pointing that out to start. I wake up early, i like to "do stuff" before work, which means sometimes working out, sometimes doing BGs. With the Garrisons, it was very adventageous to do so. That said, I also got Arathi Basin perfection that way, a couple ABs, see the same names on both sides, so you propose a plan and it works perfectly and we get perfection... brilliant. Early morning PVPers with bots, sensational.

    Now with legion, I can do a couple of things. My pre work time can be a couple of BGs or WPVPQs for honor grind, or do the Emissary for the day. After work can be whatever I feel like doing. That way you lock in a small window of progress with a second window for whatever you want to do. You can even use that pre-work time to farm mats, work on professions etc.

    Edit to add: Don't do garrison stuff on your home play time, do it via mobile app in the bathroom at work. It'll safe you a few minutes.
    Last edited by ItachiZaku; Yesterday at 12:58 PM.
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  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Myz View Post
    How do you manage? I'd really like to know.
    Struggling. Not really managing. Falling behind.
    Basically very much the same feeling you have.

    But that's how life is at the moment. Work, family, kids, hobbies.. I don't have the same amount of free time I had 12 years ago :-)
    I'm considering dropping off the raid team, for my own sanity - and for their part as well, I don't feel good slowing them down.

    Luckily the game offers other means of progression now - so maybe couple of Mythic+ runs a week will be a good replacement.

  16. #16
    I don't get to play too terribly much on a daily basis, but more than you it seems. What's helped me is using the companion app to send out my followers for AP while I'm at work. Sometimes I get extra stuff with that. I also use the app and World Quest Tracker to organize only the WQs that I need for equipment or large AP rewards. I do maybe one Mythic a week. Yes, I'm a little behind @ 840, but my guild also doesn't really care. We aren't world first raiders, we do it because it's fun and keeps us busy. If a couple of people are behind in gear even though they've been trying to get caught up, we help them out as much as possible. Organizing your activities and hollering at a buddy to help you knock them out will help tremendously. You can use the app on potty breaks, it only takes like 2 minutes to send out your minions.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by SharkLazorz View Post
    I'm considering dropping off the raid team, for my own sanity - and for their part as well, I don't feel good slowing them down.

    Luckily the game offers other means of progression now - so maybe couple of Mythic+ runs a week will be a good replacement.
    Do what you've got to do, man. I spend Draenor on hiatus from raiding, and it was amazing. All I did for one expac was LFR, and it was the break I needed honestly. I've seen several Mythic+ groups that make Mythic dungeons their main focus. Takes way less time too.
    "Raiding is not about fun!" - Some moron in a game I play.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by ItachiZaku View Post
    Don't do garrison stuff on your home play time, do it via mobile app in the bathroom at work. It'll safe you a few minutes.
    Two minutes tapping the phone doesn't even require the bathroom around here.

  18. #18
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    I was super competitive before and did all reputations, dailies, gearing and everything on point. That was in wotlk and cata. It caused my burn outs many times. Now I play slowly, enjoy the content, quests, Im already 3 weeks late because i decided to lvl warrior and had to leave my mage coz i dont like its playstyle. I work, study, take care of my relationships so I dont have much time for wow... its not my priority anymore for a long time. Find more casual players thats my suggestion. I have enough stress irl so i dont need to stress over a game.

  19. #19
    Herald of the Titans Myz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gwynafhar View Post

    Do what you've got to do, man. I spend Draenor on hiatus from raiding, and it was amazing. All I did for one expac was LFR, and it was the break I needed honestly. I've seen several Mythic+ groups that make Mythic dungeons their main focus. Takes way less time too.
    The sad part about this is the immense class/spec imbalance. If you want to go for Mythic+ progress, there simply are specs that are downright horrible to do that. I just seem to play 1 of those

    I guess it boils down to finding a new guild of like-minded individuals who want to do PvE raids on a limited schedule, while also accepting the fact that you're going to have slow progress.
    Sadly, these type of guilds on Ravencrest EU are rare (or any other high pop server even). Guess I'll have to put in some work to find a new 'home'.

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