1. #501
    Mechagnome jtmzac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spaace View Post
    When I joined my guild I was about 10ilvls behind everyone...

    It doesn't take long to gear up... and gear doesn't make that huge of a difference. Just about using what you got, and knowing when and where to be in a fight.
    Generally gear doesn't make much of a difference but
    they're not stuck with Loshan RF like I am.
    makes a huge difference.

    I saw at least a 5k increase going from a lfr weapon to a normal one.
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  2. #502
    Quote Originally Posted by spaace View Post
    When I joined my guild I was about 10ilvls behind everyone...

    It doesn't take long to gear up... and gear doesn't make that huge of a difference. Just about using what you got, and knowing when and where to be in a fight.
    Even 3-5 ilevels atm is a huge difference for fire and arcane, they scale like hell atm..

    And saying gearing is easy and fast.. sure, I went 5 weeks without a single upgrade on 10 man ^^

  3. #503
    Moderator Shangalar's Avatar
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    Heh for me the good thing is that they've had a couple of heroics on farm for weeks now so it's likely that I get some hc gear and very likely for normal gear I miss. But yeah, 1200 spell power on the normal weapon (+ saving valor to upgrade it instantly) will be an enormous boost.

  4. #504
    Field Marshal Envyadams's Avatar
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    Yea I'm trying to get the numbers of when to stop haste stacking and shift points over to Mastery so as to not cap to GCD during Lust/EoT proc w/Frost armor (It seems that its possible this tier but no one can give a solid answer on the fact).

    And even then will it really matter cause the only thing you will have to worry about is Scorch hitting GCD and even then only with the 6 stack camp playstyle which should be killed in 5.2.

    And as far as gear normal blows LFR out of the water by far and its very noticeable in the dmg you do, even with only a cpl upgrades you should be doing alot better so don't worry to much about it lol (more so in weapon and trinkets)

    So chin up Shangalar ^.^

  5. #505
    Quote Originally Posted by Envyadams View Post
    Yea I'm trying to get the numbers of when to stop haste stacking and shift points over to Mastery so as to not cap to GCD during Lust/EoT proc w/Frost armor (It seems that its possible this tier but no one can give a solid answer on the fact).
    It depends on a few things, whether or not you have an EoT trinket, what difficulty trinket it is, how many upgrades on the trinket. If you don't have EoT it's impossible to cap. I don't have all my math in front of me at the moment but assuming you have a non upgraded normal level EoT, the soft cap is 8797 haste rating. If you are capable of reaching nearly 13k haste rating from gear alone, the best bet is to go for that new soft cap and use mage armor over frost, otherwise go for 8797, and reforge mastery after that point. This only applies to the haste stacking 6 charge camping style, and you're right it won't really matter next patch anymore.

    When I get home, I'll grab the rest of my math and put up my table with the other EoT values so you have all the exact numbers.

    Edit: Just got in, Here's the numbers you want;

    LFR EoT 0/2 - 9584 w/ Frost Armor, 13659 w/ Mage Armor
    LFR EoT 1/2 - 9352 w/ Frost Armor, 13427 w/ Mage Armor
    LFR EoT 2/2 - 9111 w/ Frost Armor, 13186 w/ Mage Armor

    Norm EoT 0/2 - 8797 w/ Frost Armor, 12872 w/ Mage Armor
    Norm EoT 1/2 - 8535 w/ Frost Armor, 12610 w/ Mage Armor
    Norm EoT 2/2 - 8263 w/ Frost Armor, 12338 w/ Mage Armor

    Hero EoT 0/2 - 7909 w/ Frost Armor, 11984 w/ Mage Armor
    Hero EoT 1/2 - 7613 w/ Frost Armor, 11688 w/ Mage Armor
    Hero EoT 2/2 - 7306 w/ Frost Armor, 11381 w/ Mage Armor
    Last edited by DreamSpyre; 2013-01-19 at 08:29 PM. Reason: Added Table

  6. #506
    Bloodsail Admiral spaace's Avatar
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    and here I was under the impression that you played invocation, not ROP...
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  7. #507
    Quote Originally Posted by spaace View Post
    and here I was under the impression that you played invocation, not ROP...
    I do both :-P

  8. #508
    Has anyone come up with a good actionlist to simulate the evo/haste arcane build on simulationcraft ?

    I find that this action list give me the higher dps but i'm not an expert with simulationcraft

    Code:
    actions=counterspell,if=target.debuff.casting.react
    actions+=/cancel_buff,name=alter_time,moving=1
    actions+=/conjure_mana_gem,if=mana_gem_charges<3&target.debuff.invulnerable.react
    actions+=/time_warp,if=target.health.pct<25|time>5
    actions+=/arcane_power,if=target.time_to_die<18
    actions+=/alter_time,if=buff.alter_time.down&buff.arcane_power.up&buff.arcane_missiles.up&buff.arcane_charge.stack>3&buff.invocation.remains>6,moving=0
    actions+=/arcane_blast,if=buff.alter_time.up&buff.presence_of_mind.up
    actions+=/arcane_missiles,if=buff.alter_time.up|buff.arcane_missiles.stack=2
    actions+=/evocation,if=buff.alter_time.down&(buff.invocation.remains<2|mana.pct<30),interrupt_if=mana.pct>99&buff.invocation.remains>20
    actions+=/jade_serpent_potion,if=buff.arcane_power.up|target.time_to_die<=50
    actions+=/mana_gem,if=mana.pct<80&buff.alter_time.down
    actions+=/mirror_image
    actions+=/arcane_power,if=buff.invocation.remains>15&buff.alter_time.down&mana.pct>70&buff.arcane_charge.up
    actions+=/nether_tempest,if=(!ticking|remains<tick_time)&target.time_to_die>6
    actions+=/arcane_missiles,if=buff.arcane_missiles.react&(cooldown.alter_time_activate.remains>4|target.time_to_die<10)
    actions+=/arcane_barrage,if=buff.arcane_charge.stack=4&mana.pct<28&buff.arcane_power.down
    actions+=/arcane_blast
    actions+=/scorch,moving=1
    actions+=/fire_blast,moving=1
    actions+=/ice_lance,moving=1

  9. #509
    Ye I would like to know as well because its really hard working out stat weights for evo/haste build. It's telling me mastery and haste are pretty close but using this build I was under the impression we should stack haste?.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-20 at 10:58 PM ----------

    just redid simcraft with some new gear upgrades and got these stat weights.

    Int:4.18
    Hit:2.75
    Crit: 1.53
    Mastery: 1.66
    Haste: 1.94

    I've been using pure haste in yellow, haste/hit in blue and int/haste in red but these stat weights would suggest I should be gemming int/haste in yellow, pure int in red and hit/int in blue. Bit unsure on which way i should be gemming now! anyone can help?

  10. #510
    Dreadlord Cycobi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DreamSpyre View Post
    I do both :-P
    Out of interest, which one are you finding provides superior DPS at the moment?

    Running troll on new Mage; get the slight feeling because I GCD cap earlier (6.3K Haste) Invo might not be totally viable 'til 5.2 but still interested in the playstyle. Also, looking at those EoT numbers if running troll in BiS gear going all out Mastery seems pretty much a must. Sigh. Goodbye fast AB casts (outside of Lust/Zerking)

  11. #511
    Bloodsail Admiral spaace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magnesium View Post
    Ye I would like to know as well because its really hard working out stat weights for evo/haste build. It's telling me mastery and haste are pretty close but using this build I was under the impression we should stack haste?.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-20 at 10:58 PM ----------

    just redid simcraft with some new gear upgrades and got these stat weights.

    Int:4.18
    Hit:2.75
    Crit: 1.53
    Mastery: 1.66
    Haste: 1.94

    I've been using pure haste in yellow, haste/hit in blue and int/haste in red but these stat weights would suggest I should be gemming int/haste in yellow, pure int in red and hit/int in blue. Bit unsure on which way i should be gemming now! anyone can help?


    Just LOOKING at these numbers, it tells you int is superior. more then 2:1, therefore better value per socket.
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  12. #512
    Quote Originally Posted by Serene View Post
    Out of interest, which one are you finding provides superior DPS at the moment?

    Running troll on new Mage; get the slight feeling because I GCD cap earlier (6.3K Haste) Invo might not be totally viable 'til 5.2 but still interested in the playstyle. Also, looking at those EoT numbers if running troll in BiS gear going all out Mastery seems pretty much a must. Sigh. Goodbye fast AB casts (outside of Lust/Zerking)
    Both are fairly even and have their niches, I tend to prefer rune for right now because it's more forgiving. If for any reason the invocation buff drops, and an evocate cast gets interrupted it's an annoying loss of dps. I have a tendency in my button mashing to end the evocate a split second early, where somehow I get the last tick but not a refresh on the buff. Then I have to sit there during the cd and wait to spend more than 4 seconds casting it again. Next patch will be much better when it's only 2 seconds ish and no cd.

  13. #513
    Dreadlord Cycobi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DreamSpyre View Post
    Both are fairly even and have their niches, I tend to prefer rune for right now because it's more forgiving. If for any reason the invocation buff drops, and an evocate cast gets interrupted it's an annoying loss of dps. I have a tendency in my button mashing to end the evocate a split second early, where somehow I get the last tick but not a refresh on the buff. Then I have to sit there during the cd and wait to spend more than 4 seconds casting it again. Next patch will be much better when it's only 2 seconds ish and no cd.
    Personally I'm sticking with Rune until 5.2 hits, for the pure and simple reason that at the moment I can't get my head around the Invo rotation. I know it's not exactly complex but the RoP rotation w/ Haste build is just far too easy to manage at the moment.

  14. #514
    Bloodsail Admiral spaace's Avatar
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    Invo rotation is ROP rotation, without scorch and using invocation...
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  15. #515
    Dreadlord Cycobi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spaace View Post
    Invo rotation is ROP rotation, without scorch and using invocation...
    xD I knew that much; I just don't like not being able to move for 4 seconds; Invocation was never my favourite talent. Might run some tests in a bit when I don't feel like shit (tired).

    Quote Originally Posted by DreamSpyre View Post
    I have a tendency in my button mashing to end the evocate a split second early, where somehow I get the last tick but not a refresh on the buff. Then I have to sit there during the cd and wait to spend more than 4 seconds casting it again.
    #showtooltip SpellNameHere
    /cast [nochanneling:Evocation] SpellNameHere

    Should work, would test on dummies before you try it but will stop you clipping Evo.

  16. #516
    Quote Originally Posted by Serene View Post
    xD I knew that much; I just don't like not being able to move for 4 seconds; Invocation was never my favourite talent. Might run some tests in a bit when I don't feel like shit (tired).



    #showtooltip SpellNameHere
    /cast [nochanneling:Evocation] SpellNameHere

    Should work, would test on dummies before you try it but will stop you clipping Evo.
    I had this problem too sometimes, so I searched on little and found this macro :

    /stopmacro [channeling]
    /cast Arcane Blast


    It works, but some says its a dps loss. Something about the game not using "servers latency" but "your latency" blahblah.
    Made by mountandpetlover, big thanks !

  17. #517
    Dreadlord Cycobi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eihwaz View Post
    I had this problem too sometimes, so I searched on little and found this macro :

    /stopmacro [channeling]
    /cast Arcane Blast


    It works, but some says its a dps loss. Something about the game not using "servers latency" but "your latency" blahblah.
    Performs the same role as mine I believe, so yeah works fine.

    It both is and isn't a DPS loss. If you played 100% perfectly for the entirety of a fight (let's face it, unlikely) yes, it's a DPS loss. This is because it doesn't register you as queuing the spell to cast until you've finished casting Evocation which factors in your latency rather than server latency. However, I personally think that if you are a button-masher, it saves you from accidentally losing your Invoker's Energy. It's just a risk-assessment I guess. If you're confident in your ability to not clip Evo don't use it.

  18. #518
    A note to all this Evocation cancel talk. Just keep using it and it will become second nature, i played fire until nerfs and by extension used evocation. The first couple of weeks(~1month) i had plenty of early cancels of evocate, as time went on they became less and less, to a point that i cant remember the last time i screwed up my evocation(and still start casting with ~0.5s left on channel due to latency). still use it on the fights i go frost.

    In other words; Wax on, Wax off. (practice makes perfect)

  19. #519
    Dreadlord Cycobi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stX3 View Post
    A note to all this Evocation cancel talk. Just keep using it and it will become second nature, i played fire until nerfs and by extension used evocation. The first couple of weeks(~1month) i had plenty of early cancels of evocate, as time went on they became less and less, to a point that i cant remember the last time i screwed up my evocation(and still start casting with ~0.5s left on channel due to latency). still use it on the fights i go frost.

    In other words; Wax on, Wax off. (practice makes perfect)
    I agree completely but some people form a habit of mashing buttons (not that this is a bad thing - more presses reduces chances of latency lag) and find it hard to stop. I've managed to adapt from constantly pressing the next button in my rotation when I played Shadow to now being more conservative with it due to Missiles, and I'm fairly confident I wouldn't screw up my Evocation but others may not be as confident and at least until they adapt this prevents mistakes. It's all preference, really.

  20. #520
    Bloodsail Admiral spaace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Serene View Post
    xD I knew that much; I just don't like not being able to move for 4 seconds; Invocation was never my favourite talent. Might run some tests in a bit when I don't feel like shit (tired).
    Not being able to move for 4sec or less, versus, having to recast ROP and lose it while running/scorch.


    in 5.2.. It will be pretty fun, being able to go from empty to full mana in a GCD.. until they nerf the crap out of it, and we're all back at step 1..
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