1. #881
    Quote Originally Posted by jtmzac View Post
    I've been trying arcane a bit since I was bored. I tried using mastery gemming and reforging and was 12k mastery without mage armor or the mastery buff and found the results pretty average.

    I also tried mastery reforging using my haste gemming from frost and with 9k haste and 7.5k mastery actually got better results.

    Overall I'll be sticking with frost as even compensating for my lack of experience with arcane I just can't see it outperforming frost at normal (522) ilvls except when there's a fair bit of multi-dotting e.g. council.

    Well when you're at 518 gear level arcane is gonna be pretty lackluster.

  2. #882
    Mechagnome jtmzac's Avatar
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    Yeah I figured that was the main reason the damage wasn't that great. Its disappointing that you need a fair bit heroic gear for the spec to work.
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  3. #883
    I'm 529, I have a heroic ( 535 ) wand and 522 BoTH and the 522 crit trinket. I definitely see the potential of the spec, even without the wusholay's trinket I can do pretty well.

  4. #884
    I tried out arcane yesterday for a little bit just to see how invoarc was and I absolutely LOVED IT, to the point where I'm considering switching once my guild downs lei shen.
    I haven't played arcane since like the first or second week of ToT so I am kind of out of the loop on some things and after some very brief trawling through the posts in this thread I couldn't come up with a definite answer for what I am looking for. If I were to go invoarc (knowing full well that RoP arc is the more optimal version, I'm just looking for a fun playstyle for farming) would I want to reforge Haste>Mastery and gem haste or Mastery>Haste and gem mastery or some combo of the two of some sort. I am currently just using Mastery>Haste with crit gemming (since I am still fire) but kind of feel haste would edge over mastery for this playstyle.

  5. #885
    Quote Originally Posted by voltaa View Post
    I tried out arcane yesterday for a little bit just to see how invoarc was and I absolutely LOVED IT, to the point where I'm considering switching once my guild downs lei shen.
    I haven't played arcane since like the first or second week of ToT so I am kind of out of the loop on some things and after some very brief trawling through the posts in this thread I couldn't come up with a definite answer for what I am looking for. If I were to go invoarc (knowing full well that RoP arc is the more optimal version, I'm just looking for a fun playstyle for farming) would I want to reforge Haste>Mastery and gem haste or Mastery>Haste and gem mastery or some combo of the two of some sort. I am currently just using Mastery>Haste with crit gemming (since I am still fire) but kind of feel haste would edge over mastery for this playstyle.
    with meta gem and trinket procs more as u have more haste yea i think haste will outweigh mastery

    (oh and if your using invocation mastery value gets halfed)

  6. #886
    Hi. I've been having a pretty long break from oh'sweet Arcane this tier. After reading a few pages in this thread, the full haste/invocation build caught my eye(just as it did in 5.1).

    So, going with this build. What will the ideal rotation for Single target be? Do we ever drop stacks?

    I'm currently 529ilvl, with the legendary meta gem.

    - Thanks

  7. #887
    Quote Originally Posted by Soulstrike View Post
    with meta gem and trinket procs more as u have more haste yea i think haste will outweigh mastery

    (oh and if your using invocation mastery value gets halfed)
    Ya, I actually ended up going arcane for raid yesterday just guessing how to gem (I picked haste) and it actually did some really good damage, kind of shit the bed on animus (but kill is a kill so w/e) but for qon and twins the damage was actually really good, obviously not as good as good rng fire, but enough that I feel confident to progress on lei shen as arcane.

    When you say halved mastery value, would that put crit's value above mastery at that point? Bascially making it so I use frost gearing?

    @Dissemoen What I did was just spam AB, never cast ABar (except on alter time resets) and used procs as they came, evoing when I didn't have mana, I don't know if this is 100% ideal but the results I got were decent http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...&e=7339#Voltaa
    Last edited by voltaa; 2013-05-22 at 03:12 PM.

  8. #888
    Lei Shen heroic as arcane? Dafuq?

  9. #889
    Dreadlord Cycobi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zavri View Post
    Lei Shen heroic as arcane? Dafuq?
    Dunno why you're so surprised tbh. IMO Arcane > Fire on Lei Shen.

    http://worldoflogs.com/rankings/play...25N/Fire_Mage/
    http://worldoflogs.com/rankings/play...N/Arcane_Mage/

    Normal logs (bearing in mind that HC Lei Shen is hardly different in terms of mechanics, it's largely increased damage from boss and increased health with Helmet of Command during transitions) put my month-old Arcane parse at 5th best overall, and this was now a month ago. I've not done the fight since and I'm 100% confident I could push over 200K on that fight currently. ESPECIALLY with the AoE buff, Arcane is very strong there. AE is now strong enough to warrant use; and playing as Mastery Arcane the damage of it only gets increased. I get that Voltaa's playing Invocane, but that actually only improves his mobility on that fight which is a good thing.

  10. #890
    Quote Originally Posted by voltaa View Post
    Ya, I actually ended up going arcane for raid yesterday just guessing how to gem (I picked haste) and it actually did some really good damage, kind of shit the bed on animus (but kill is a kill so w/e) but for qon and twins the damage was actually really good, obviously not as good as good rng fire, but enough that I feel confident to progress on lei shen as arcane.
    On heroic Iron Qon 10, I pulled 150k with reforge/gem haste to 12684 and the rest to mastery to utilize ROP (still working on using rop properly). Mind you, I was 523 ilvl compared to your 536 ilvl. I would assume 13 ilvls would have a larger increase in dps which makes me wonder if the haste invoc build really isn't as good as people are thinking. Granted, the haste invoc build is competitive and the mobility is awesome, it still feels underpowered for arcane's full potential.

  11. #891
    Quote Originally Posted by voltaa View Post
    Ya, I actually ended up going arcane for raid yesterday just guessing how to gem (I picked haste) and it actually did some really good damage, kind of shit the bed on animus (but kill is a kill so w/e) but for qon and twins the damage was actually really good, obviously not as good as good rng fire, but enough that I feel confident to progress on lei shen as arcane.

    When you say halved mastery value, would that put crit's value above mastery at that point? Bascially making it so I use frost gearing?

    @Dissemoen What I did was just spam AB, never cast ABar (except on alter time resets) and used procs as they came, evoing when I didn't have mana, I don't know if this is 100% ideal but the results I got were decent http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...&e=7339#Voltaa
    I would strongly advice you to go Fire or Frost for Lei Shen Heroic. As Arcane, your dmg is extremly crippled in the third phase (Imagen constant Lei Shi Get Away Phase) and that is the only part of the whole ecnounter where DPS is very much needed.

    Edit: Posting logs from this fight is very silly because it doesnt say very much. You will rank very high if you spawn extra ads during normal phases or transition. The only phase where Arcane shines is during the second phase (after the first transition).

    Arcane is alot better in 25m Lei Shen than 10m Lei Shen due more balls and AE spam with Mastery. But it is not even close to Fire in the p3.
    Last edited by Mishh; 2013-05-23 at 02:28 AM.
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  12. #892
    Quote Originally Posted by Mishh View Post
    snip
    I don't understand how arcane would be any worse than frost for the third phase, in wind storms just let it carry you out, blink + blazing speed, repeat, also the logs I posted were for qon/twins, not lei shen.

    If what you say about third phase is true and my dps is too crippled I will go back but so far I have really liked the output and mobility that I have on the fight

    @pyrod it could be that invo isn't all that great, it could also be that I haven't played any form of arcane in about two and a half months and still need to work out the kinks in what I am doing as for which is true only time and testing will tell
    Last edited by voltaa; 2013-05-23 at 05:29 AM.

  13. #893
    Quote Originally Posted by voltaa View Post
    I don't understand how arcane would be any worse than frost for the third phase, in wind storms just let it carry you out, blink + blazing speed, repeat, also the logs I posted were for qon/twins, not lei shen.

    If what you say about third phase is true and my dps is too crippled I will go back but so far I have really liked the output and mobility that I have on the fight

    @pyrod it could be that invo isn't all that great, it could also be that I haven't played any form of arcane in about two and a half months and still need to work out the kinks in what I am doing as for which is true only time and testing will tell
    its bad >_< well.... on heroic10 i could imagine it would be hell (very limited space with diffusion chain so cant move as much)

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-23 at 06:11 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by voltaa View Post
    Ya, I actually ended up going arcane for raid yesterday just guessing how to gem (I picked haste) and it actually did some really good damage, kind of shit the bed on animus (but kill is a kill so w/e) but for qon and twins the damage was actually really good, obviously not as good as good rng fire, but enough that I feel confident to progress on lei shen as arcane.

    When you say halved mastery value, would that put crit's value above mastery at that point? Bascially making it so I use frost gearing?

    @Dissemoen What I did was just spam AB, never cast ABar (except on alter time resets) and used procs as they came, evoing when I didn't have mana, I don't know if this is 100% ideal but the results I got were decent http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...&e=7339#Voltaa
    depends tbh if you are mulitdotting alot mastery>haste>crit
    single target haste>crit=mastery

    would prefer going mastery for trash lolzzzz

  14. #894
    I didn't mean your logs, I saw Serene posting logs from 25m normal Lei Shen where Arcane and Fire only differed a few thousand DPS.

    Why I think Frost would do better than Arcane is because you can save your instants + Frozen Orb + Ice Floes for the winds. But since I haven't tried Frost on this boss I can't say for sure that it's better, but I would belive it to be.

    I have killed the boss 3 times as Arcane, 1 time with RoP and 2 times with IW. I found IW to be alot better because you could easily time it with Thunderstruck and I had a really hard time to maintain uptime on RoP but after the nerf I suppose IW is not even an option for Arcane anymore.

    Ofc you should should play Arcane if you are more comfortable with it than you are with Fire. But speaking from my own experience I would not have want to progress on this boss as Arcane ;D

    Anyways GL!
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  15. #895
    What you guys think about;
    Living bomb > Nether Tempest and Incaster ward > Rune of power in 5.3 ?

    Best to swap to LB & IW ?

  16. #896
    Dreadlord Cycobi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mishh View Post
    snip
    I agree that IW is a lot better than RoP there - it's what I was using in my log and especially in final phase you can constantly proc it as there is consistent damage and using Mage mobility you're not losing a great deal of dps.

    Quote Originally Posted by littleG View Post
    What you guys think about;
    Living bomb > Nether Tempest and Incaster ward > Rune of power in 5.3 ?

    Best to swap to LB & IW ?
    Both cases are situational.

    Living Bomb is better single target; outside of that it's very marginal between the two. The more targets, the further NT pulls ahead due to cleaving and no target cap.

    RoP > IW aside from a select few fights

  17. #897
    Quote Originally Posted by Serene View Post
    I agree that IW is a lot better than RoP there - it's what I was using in my log and especially in final phase you can constantly proc it as there is consistent damage and using Mage mobility you're not losing a great deal of dps.

    Both cases are situational.

    Living Bomb is better single target; outside of that it's very marginal between the two. The more targets, the further NT pulls ahead due to cleaving and no target cap.

    RoP > IW aside from a select few fights
    So Less then <2/3 mobs you use living bomb? and otherwise NT?

  18. #898
    Quote Originally Posted by littleG View Post
    So Less then <2/3 mobs you use living bomb? and otherwise NT?
    No, if those 2-3 mobs will be in cleave range of each other NT still pulls ahead.

  19. #899
    Don't see how you can use rune of power in phase 3 on heroic lei shen. It's pretty much impossible.

  20. #900
    Quote Originally Posted by Zavri View Post
    Well when you're at 518 gear level arcane is gonna be pretty lackluster.
    If 518 isn't enough, what ilvl do you think Arcane will become decent?

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