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  1. #21
    Moderator Shangalar's Avatar
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    But they don't want to make placement on the go easier. They want us to waste time and put some effort into putting down a rune. They want us put a rune down in a perfect position in which we'll able to use it. If we can't do it, then either a) we didn't learn the fight or b) it's not possible on that fight. If the answer is a), we need to learn it and if the answer is b), then we need to use another talent.

  2. #22
    The Insane Didactic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shangalar View Post
    But they don't want to make placement on the go easier. They want us to waste time and put some effort into putting down a rune. They want us put a rune down in a perfect position in which we'll able to use it. If we can't do it, then either a) we didn't learn the fight or b) it's not possible on that fight. If the answer is a), we need to learn it and if the answer is b), then we need to use another talent.
    Just because Blizzard wants it doesn't make it any less excessive.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    Just because Blizzard wants it doesn't make it any less excessive.
    It does mean it's not going to get changed though.
    The talent works as intended and is a perfectly viable choice in many raid encounters.

  4. #24
    the stat priority you mentioned Intellect > Hit + Expertise (to 15% cap) > Mastery > Haste > Crit

    should we still be aiming for our first mage bomb tick at 3043 rating??

  5. #25
    The Insane Didactic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Imnick View Post
    It does mean it's not going to get changed though.
    The talent works as intended and is a perfectly viable choice in many raid encounters.
    And that does not mean we should be indolent about getting it changed.

  6. #26
    Moderator Shangalar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soulstrike View Post
    the stat priority you mentioned Intellect > Hit + Expertise (to 15% cap) > Mastery > Haste > Crit

    should we still be aiming for our first mage bomb tick at 3043 rating??
    Honestly I found haste to be far more important for the casting time of blast and missiles than for an extra tick of bomb, but about 3-3.5k haste seems right for me to be happy about it. Currently playing at 3300 and seeing good results. Before I got HC gear I sometimes even ran with frost armor coz I was annoyed with how slow it all went.

  7. #27
    The Insane Didactic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shangalar View Post
    Honestly I found haste to be far more important for the casting time of blast and missiles than for an extra tick of bomb, but about 3-3.5k haste seems right for me to be happy about it. Currently playing at 3300 and seeing good results. Before I got HC gear I sometimes even ran with frost armor coz I was annoyed with how slow it all went.
    On the other hand, I have found Mastery to be the superior stat because the increase in damage makes up for the cast time decrease.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    On the other hand, I have found Mastery to be the superior stat because the increase in damage makes up for the cast time decrease.
    yes of course but geting the more tick out of your mage bomb could be better than having 1k more mastery

    but agree using mage armor>frost armor

  9. #29
    Moderator Shangalar's Avatar
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    You misunderstood me, I ran with Frost Armor because I couldn't stand casting spells so slowly with all the mobs having interrupts, silences, knockbacks etc...

    Of course Mastery is still the prio stat, I'm currently running with 3134 Haste and 7488 Mastery with some Hit/Haste items left unreforged on purpose.

  10. #30
    Use your talents and other abilities, not Frost Armour.
    Frostjaw > Arcane Blast (if you think you can risk it, weaving one in works better for travel time spells) > Deep Freeze, continue using Arcane Blast with the Slow glyph, Frost Nova when he gets near, Blink...
    Should be dead before it can reach you a second time.

  11. #31
    Hi everyone,

    Going to test arcane in raid since our gear clearly lacks crit currently.

    I have a question regarding rotation.

    If I understood rotation corerctly reading this guide it is the following :

    - Best case scenario, we reach 2 missiles stack at 4 charges, and then fire the missiles to reach 6 charges to finally cast Barrage
    - If we get 2 missile procs under 4 charges, cast missile and then stack charges up to 5 if only one proc left, 4 if 2 procs left. Then cast Barrage.
    - Worst case scenario, we don't get any missile proc when we reach 5 charges, so we cast Barrage.

    But my question is the following : Considering missiles are our best dps output, wouldn't it be better to ramp up to 6 arcane charges with 2 missiles procs, to get maximum damage increase on our most efficient spell?
    Playing with rune, we can get up to 6 charges with 80% mana before casting missiles, and regen is so quick that we go back to 95% when all missiles and barrage have been casted.
    Wouldn't this playstyle be more efficient dps wise?
    Last edited by Shendow; 2012-10-09 at 08:50 AM.

  12. #32
    Moderator Shangalar's Avatar
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    I've tested playing with Rune of Power on Feng last night and it seemed better to go up to 5 stacks and then use Missiles and Barrage. The idea isn't to start the next cycle near full mana, it's to always be at full mana, *especially* when you're casting Missiles and Barrage. If you reach 6 stacks at 80% mana and start the next cycle at 95% mana, that's not good. You should cast all Missiles and Barrage at 90-100% mana and start the next cycle from 100%.

    If you think "but that wastes mana regen", it doesn't, since our goal in the first place is for our mana not to drop

  13. #33
    Moderator Shangalar's Avatar
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    Scrapped the previous post, figured out that the arcane "nerfs" in the patch notes are what happened in the hotfix a couple of days ago.

    On the other hand, I sucked at Feng the Accursed 10-man and ranked 17th on WoL: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...7788#Shangalar

    Is there really so few Arcane mages? Because I failed at putting down the Rune of Power half of the time. I'd probably be ranked first if I didn't have to raid lead between spellcasts. Also Arcane really is behind Fire and Frost, I just need to figure out if I'm doing something tragically wrong, but I don't think I'm that off the mark with my rotations and priorities.
    Last edited by Shangalar; 2012-10-11 at 09:57 PM.

  14. #34
    What is the proc chance of Arcane missiles??? im geting quite annoyed by lack of proc when i get 6 arcane blasts in a row

  15. #35
    The Insane Didactic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soulstrike View Post
    What is the proc chance of Arcane missiles??? im geting quite annoyed by lack of proc when i get 6 arcane blasts in a row
    I believe it's 40%.
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  16. #36
    I'd like to come back on the arcane rotation.

    I might be wrong, but I keep thinking that playing with rune of power it's better to reach 6 arcane charges, and then cast missiles. Here is why :

    I'm currently sitting at +50% damage from mastery (full raid buff and with average gear).

    Considering the following :

    By chain casting Arcane blast, reaching 5 arcane charges gets me to 86% mana.
    Damage bonus with 5 charges :
    5*22+(50*86/100)=110+43=153% increased damage when launching missiles

    However,

    By ramping up to 6 charges, getting me to 75% mana :
    6*22+(50*75/100)=132+37.5=169% increased damage when launching missiles

    So the second case scenario seems to give me the best damage output to cast my 2 stacks of missiles (3 if a proc happens due to a bomb refresh) and dump them with arcane barrage. And there is sufficient time with mana-free casts to get back to 95% mana when arcane barrage is cast, getting us up to 100% when the next cycle starts.

    According to my napkin math, it takes up to +200% damage by mastery to see the 5 charges rotation reaching the same damage bonus.

    So currently with the available gear, since mastery bonus damage is relatively low, and with the calculations made in this post, isn't it preferable to get 6 arcane charges before casting missile?

    Please comment and point out any mistake.
    Last edited by Shendow; 2012-10-15 at 10:20 AM.

  17. #37
    Btw what addon are you guys using to keep track of Rune of power?? ive tried to use need to know but i just cannot figure out how to set the setting straight :C

    @shendow i myself also use an arcane blast to reach 6 stacks (unless!! i am already at 90% mana ish then i have to use arcane missle at 5 stacks rather than 6)

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Shangalar View Post
    You misunderstood me, I ran with Frost Armor because I couldn't stand casting spells so slowly with all the mobs having interrupts, silences, knockbacks etc...

    Of course Mastery is still the prio stat, I'm currently running with 3134 Haste and 7488 Mastery with some Hit/Haste items left unreforged on purpose.
    lol 2 sec casts are not slow am i the only one who remembers 3 sec fireball?

  19. #39
    Btw what addon are you guys using to keep track of Rune of power?? ive tried to use need to know but i just cannot figure out how to set the setting straight :C
    I use Weak aura (or power aura) to show when i'm standing on my rune. However, there is no way to know how much time there is left on the buff.

  20. #40
    Moderator Shangalar's Avatar
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    I'm sure some addon can be configured to start a 60 seconds countdown upon rune of power cast. Or even you can start it without casting Rune being a precondition. But I doubt you can configure any addon to track the duration of one specific Rune. We'll dig something up.

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