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  1. #41
    Just asking, noone plays arcane with continous burn on single target (with invocation talent, reforged to haste)?

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by NPI View Post
    Just asking, noone plays arcane with continous burn on single target (with invocation talent, reforged to haste)?
    I tried it, but it was way below RoP. This was with not optimal gear, mind you. It was reforged though.

  3. #43
    Moderator Shangalar's Avatar
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    So... I got some new insights into stat values based on my personal simcraft simulations. When I had 4.5% haste and 38% Mastery, it valued Haste at doublr the value of Mastery (2 vs 1 or just about). So I did some tinkering and reforging and when I got Haste up to 9.5%, Mastery was at 34% and then the values changes to Haste about 1.62 and Mastery 1.56.

    This led me to the conclusion that using either Ward or Rune gives haste a greater value than I oroginally thought. Haven't tested anything with Invocation yet, not even in game except on a target dummy and it was awful.

    Also increasing Haste by these 5% raised my theoretical damage in simcraft by a lot.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Shangalar View Post
    So... I got some new insights into stat values based on my personal simcraft simulations. When I had 4.5% haste and 38% Mastery, it valued Haste at doublr the value of Mastery (2 vs 1 or just about). So I did some tinkering and reforging and when I got Haste up to 9.5%, Mastery was at 34% and then the values changes to Haste about 1.62 and Mastery 1.56.

    This led me to the conclusion that using either Ward or Rune gives haste a greater value than I oroginally thought. Haven't tested anything with Invocation yet, not even in game except on a target dummy and it was awful.

    Also increasing Haste by these 5% raised my theoretical damage in simcraft by a lot.
    was that with raid buff or just dummy testing?? haste>mastery until first LB/NT tick just making sure you had raid buff for 5% haste

  5. #45
    Moderator Shangalar's Avatar
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    The dummy testing I did was at 9.5% haste without the raid buff. An additional tick of NT is at 12.5% so with raid buffs I have that as well.

    Simcraft tests included all buffs, of course. My advice would be to run a simulation through simcraft and see for yourself, because it takes into account the gear you are currently wearing and not BiS items.

  6. #46
    hmmm ok.... i did the same thing i tried reforging into haste (valuing haste higher than mastery) but i ended up doing much less dps than fully reforging to mastery

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Soulstrike View Post
    hmmm ok.... i did the same thing i tried reforging into haste (valuing haste higher than mastery) but i ended up doing much less dps than fully reforging to mastery
    Is that just single target? Wouldn't mastery be worth more multi dotting with nether tempest and cleaving with arcane barrage (components of most encounters)?

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Nitros14 View Post
    Is that just single target? Wouldn't mastery be worth more multi dotting with nether tempest and cleaving with arcane barrage (components of most encounters)?
    well i did say mastery>haste so yes even in multi dotting with NT mastery>haste (but remember 12.5% for next haste cap)

  9. #49
    Moderator Shangalar's Avatar
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    The Arcane guide has now been patched to 1.1.

    Changes:

    1. The gear listings have been cut, it is now far enough into the expansion for new players to not have to worry about dungeon BiS items and I have no desire to update the guide as we get various LFR, normal and heroic modes unlocked. Next week I’ll consider adding a Normal Raid BiS list and a Heroic Raid BiS list, probably in the same style as the dungeon gear list, meaning no “this needs to be in this slot” but rather “this looks like the best item for Arcane”.

    2. New information on level 90 talents:
    After extensive testing over the last few weeks and reading the various discussions taking place on these forums, I’ve reached some conclusions on the gameplay changes depending on the chosen talent:
    Invocation – Your mana will go down fast, but it will be timed nearly perfectly for the next use of Invocation when the current buff expires. The rules stay the same – do not go past 4 Charges using Blast, but do not cast less either – too much conserve will lower your damage and not enough conserve will force an early Invocation and waste your dps time.

    Rune of Power – The Rune allows you to get to 6 Charges using Blast every time except during Power when I advise going to 5. However, even one rotation (charging + resetting) while not standing in the Rune has a high chance of crippling your DPS unless you have an emergency Mana Gem ready. The greatest issue here is not having reliable means to track the duration of the Rune. To counter that, I found the simplest, borderline ridiculous solution – using the integrated WoW Stopwatch located when you click on the Clock under the minimap and pulling it to wherever you want (in my case just above Arcanometer). That way I simply memorize at which minute and second I cast the current Rune.

    Incanter’s Ward – do not ever use the active part of this spell unless you are sure you will be freecasting for the full duration of the buff. If you have to move or use defensive abilities during that time, you will lose dps.

    Additional Invocation discussions - I will just copy schwarzkopf’s comments on his rather different gameplay style using this talent. Thank you for these unorthodox insights and I invite people to test them:
    I'm playing and sticking to arcane, however there are significant mana issues because of the very low and unreliable proc rate of Arcane Missiles. My rotation is now basically - ABx6 (to stack up), AM to 0, scorch until more AM, AM to 0. I'll normally get to cast around 3 or 4 Arcane Missiles before that rotation takes me down to far on mana. I like invocation though - as it is a predictable source of increased damage once you know the boss fights. Rune of Power is too reliant on standing still, and Incanter's Absorbtion too dependent on taking damage in a very small window. Basically - if I get the advertised proc rate on Arcane missiles I get solid DPS - normally I don't, so the DPS sucks as I run out of mana or lose DPS to regen mana. (On Arcane Barrage) I tried that, but found the benefits of keeping the 6 stack up kept me at a higher dps. If I used ABarr rotation, I'd rarely get a 6 stack AM off. So now I use scorch instead of ABarr in the normal rotation... it also means I am mobile for most of my rotation. I just use AB again if I'm about to run out of stacks, and there are no AMs available. Using this method, every AM is at full stacks, which is awesome. If I got advertised proc rates on AM, I'd probably use the ABar rotation.


    5. I’ve upgraded my superbuff macro (which wasn’t posted here before, but now it is). The macro is used after you reach 6 Charges with Blast, have a Bomb ticking and have 2 stacks of Missiles ready. Of course, if you don’t have that trinket or if you don’t have Herbalism (I’m really not a serious min-maxer), don’t put those lines into the macro:

    /cast Mana Gem
    /cast Flashfrozen Resin Globule
    /cast Arcane Power
    /cast Lifeblood
    /cast Alter Time
    /cast Arcane Missiles

    You can also put in a Potion in there somewhere as well, but I personally prefer to keep them out of my damage macros. If Arcane Power is glyphed, you use the macro again when it comes off cooldown. If Arcane Power is not glyphed, you can use either the macro exactly when Power gets off cooldown or just push the Power button if it’s somewhere on your bars.

    6. Stat weights analysis using SimulationCraft – done after some preliminary tests showing a much higher value for Haste than I expected.

    Stats at testing:
    Item level 475
    Hit 5105 (15.01%)
    Haste 4067
    Crit 265
    Mastery 5664

    a) Incanter’s Ward + Glyph of Arcane Power + Nether Tempest
    Int 2.8
    Haste 1.30
    Mastery 1.11
    Crit 0.91

    b) Incanter’s Ward + Nether Tempest without Glyph of Arcane Power
    Int 2.74
    Haste 1.27
    Mastery 1.08
    Crit 0.89

    c) Rune of Power + Nether Tempest without Glyph of Arcane Power
    Int 3.75
    Haste 1.70
    Mastery 1.56
    Crit 1.23

    d) Rune of Power + Nether Tempest + Glyph of Arcane Power
    Int 3.78
    Haste 1.63
    Mastery 1.51
    Crit 1.23

    6.1 After those tests I played a bit with reforging and tuned the two disputed stats into:
    Haste 4986 (previously 4067)
    Mastery 4745 (previously 5664)

    For the combination Rune of Power + Nether Tempest + Glyph of Arcane Power, it’s now giving me:
    Int 3.76
    Haste 1.61
    Mastery 1.58
    Crit 1.24

    Honestly I can’t figure out what SimulationCraft wants with me. Possibly it’s trying to push me to the next tick of Nether Tempest and possibly Haste is just better than Mastery. I will stay like this tonight and compare my damage on Feng the Accursed 25 to last Thursday’s attempts. I had only one item different from then so the tiny gear upgrade shouldn’t have a noticeable effect.

  10. #50
    I've found a way to track rune of power CD using weak auras.

    What I did was set it up so a 1 min bar pops up when my combat log says I start casting a rune of power.

    Here is the export (spell name is in French, watch out.)

    Note: not possible using Power aura:

    {
    ["user_y"] = 0,
    ["stacksSize"] = 12,
    ["user_x"] = 0,
    ["xOffset"] = -2.1884765625,
    ["stacksFlags"] = "None",
    ["yOffset"] = -127.99966430664,
    ["foregroundColor"] = {
    [1] = 1,
    [2] = 1,
    [3] = 1,
    [4] = 1,
    },
    ["borderColor"] = {
    [1] = 1,
    [2] = 1,
    [3] = 1,
    [4] = 0.5,
    },
    ["sameTexture"] = true,
    ["rotateText"] = "NONE",
    ["actions"] = {
    ["start"] = {
    },
    ["finish"] = {
    },
    },
    ["selfPoint"] = "CENTER",
    ["barColor"] = {
    [1] = 0.4156862745098,
    [2] = 0.3921568627451,
    [3] = 0.41176470588235,
    [4] = 1,
    },
    ["desaturate"] = false,
    ["rotation"] = 0,
    ["load"] = {
    ["role"] = {
    ["multi"] = {
    },
    },
    ["talent"] = 17,
    ["size"] = {
    ["multi"] = {
    },
    },
    ["class"] = {
    ["multi"] = {
    },
    },
    ["spec"] = {
    ["multi"] = {
    },
    },
    ["use_talent"] = true,
    },
    ["timerColor"] = {
    [1] = 1,
    [2] = 1,
    [3] = 1,
    [4] = 1,
    },
    ["regionType"] = "aurabar",
    ["stacks"] = true,
    ["blendMode"] = "BLEND",
    ["texture"] = "statusbar256_3",
    ["textFont"] = "Friz Quadrata TT",
    ["stacksFont"] = "Friz Quadrata TT",
    ["auto"] = true,
    ["compress"] = false,
    ["timerFont"] = "Friz Quadrata TT",
    ["alpha"] = 1,
    ["borderInset"] = 11,
    ["backgroundOffset"] = 2,
    ["borderBackdrop"] = "Blizzard Tooltip",
    ["barInFront"] = true,
    ["desaturateBackground"] = false,
    ["customTextUpdate"] = "update",
    ["displayTextLeft"] = "%n",
    ["animation"] = {
    ["start"] = {
    ["duration_type"] = "seconds",
    ["type"] = "none",
    },
    ["main"] = {
    ["duration_type"] = "seconds",
    ["type"] = "none",
    },
    ["finish"] = {
    ["duration_type"] = "seconds",
    ["type"] = "none",
    },
    },
    ["trigger"] = {
    ["use_castType"] = false,
    ["sourceunit"] = "player",
    ["source"] = "Shendow",
    ["duration"] = "62",
    ["use_spell"] = true,
    ["names"] = {
    },
    ["debuffType"] = "HELPFUL",
    ["spell"] = "Rune de puissance",
    ["unevent"] = "timed",
    ["use_source"] = false,
    ["spellName"] = "Rune de puissance",
    ["type"] = "event",
    ["use_spellName"] = true,
    ["subeventSuffix"] = "_CAST_START",
    ["use_sourceunit"] = true,
    ["use_unit"] = true,
    ["event"] = "Combat Log",
    ["unit"] = "player",
    ["subeventPrefix"] = "SPELL",
    },
    ["text"] = true,
    ["stickyDuration"] = false,
    ["timer"] = true,
    ["timerFlags"] = "None",
    ["backdropColor"] = {
    [1] = 1,
    [2] = 1,
    [3] = 1,
    [4] = 0.5,
    },
    ["backgroundTexture"] = "Textures\\SpellActivationOverlays\\Eclipse_Sun",
    ["textColor"] = {
    [1] = 1,
    [2] = 1,
    [3] = 1,
    [4] = 1,
    },
    ["mirror"] = false,
    ["borderEdge"] = "None",
    ["backgroundColor"] = {
    [1] = 0.50196078431373,
    [2] = 0.50196078431373,
    [3] = 0.50196078431373,
    [4] = 0,
    },
    ["borderSize"] = 16,
    ["icon"] = false,
    ["icon_side"] = "LEFT",
    ["anchorPoint"] = "CENTER",
    ["untrigger"] = {
    },
    ["inverse"] = false,
    ["desaturateForeground"] = false,
    ["crop_y"] = 0.41,
    ["stacksColor"] = {
    [1] = 1,
    [2] = 1,
    [3] = 1,
    [4] = 1,
    },
    ["timerSize"] = 12,
    ["height"] = 16.376119613647,
    ["id"] = "Rune of power",
    ["textSize"] = 12,
    ["frameStrata"] = 1,
    ["width"] = 390,
    ["displayTextRight"] = "%p",
    ["border"] = false,
    ["numTriggers"] = 1,
    ["foregroundTexture"] = "Textures\\SpellActivationOverlays\\Eclipse_Sun",
    ["orientation"] = "HORIZONTAL",
    ["crop_x"] = 0.41,
    ["borderOffset"] = 5,
    ["textFlags"] = "None",
    }

  11. #51
    This guide can be simplified to three words.

    Just respec fire!

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by morbidjbyrd View Post
    This guide can be simplified to three words.

    Just respec fire!
    why the hate??? arcane is fine i just dont like relying too much on rng componant

  13. #53
    Moderator Shangalar's Avatar
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    While I will gladly admit that I'm behind good Fire and Frost Mages, I am also always among the top in LFR and my guild's normal 25-man raids. High ranked WoL parses are also there, even though I spend most of the raids sitting on my push to talk button and directing the raid. A good Arcane mage will beat any average player of any class/spec.

    I'd consider going Fire only if me being Arcane was in some way hindering my raid. However, until everyone in my raid can keep up with this: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...e/?s=447&e=960 , I'll just stick to what I want to play.

  14. #54
    anyone have a macro that will cast rune of power under you?

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Soulstrike View Post
    why the hate??? arcane is fine i just dont like relying too much on rng componant

    If you look on raidbots and look way way at the bottom of the dps graph and you will find arcane mages. In other words, on average they are one of the worst specs out there at the moment.

    The character select screen boss is quite formidable, but mages always one shot him.
    Now you have to kill off the spec boss, and you will win wow.

  16. #56
    Wushu, you are right, that fire is generally better for MSV. However WOL, raidbot etc will always show the best results, and not the average ones. In a theoretic situation, where most of the mages can perform better as arcane than fire, you will see fire as winner. Also, everyone is still gearing up, lets check it when everyone will wear hc 4-sets.

  17. #57
    Arcane - use three buttons and you'll top every fight.

    Moderator used more than three buttons to infract this user.
    Last edited by Lord Swizzlington; 2012-10-27 at 06:42 PM.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Selonthyx View Post
    Arcane - use three buttons and you'll top every fight.
    I think instead of "Arcane" you should have written "Mage"

    Arcane: Arcane Blast, Arcane Barrage, Arcane Missiles
    Fire: Fireball, Fire Blast, Pyroblast
    Frost: Frostbolt, Frostfire Bolt, Ice Lance

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by NPI View Post
    Wushu, you are right, that fire is generally better for MSV. However WOL, raidbot etc will always show the best results, and not the average ones. In a theoretic situation, where most of the mages can perform better as arcane than fire, you will see fire as winner. Also, everyone is still gearing up, lets check it when everyone will wear hc 4-sets.
    You can change the percentile you look at and even look at averages and means.
    It doesn't matter how you look at it, you always see arcane way way on the bottom. It blows...its just that simple. I know you mages aren't used to all three of your specs raping, but now you can see what everyone else had to deal with up till now.
    Last edited by Wushu; 2012-10-27 at 11:14 PM.

  20. #60
    Thank you, Wushu, that was new for me. As an "arcane fanatic" I have to admit that fire performs much better than arcane atm although I was able to do almost same dmg in some fights. What I don't know, how can Blizzard see arcane as overpowered (as arcane nerf inc in 5.1). It even scales (much) better with stats (+150% sp for fireball, +104,5 for AB). The only thing where I see arcane is really shine is trash packs (with frost bomb), but it doesn't counts.

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